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Don't act so obtuse. You know what I mean. There's a manner in which one can contradict w/o being abrasive or cruel...
...this, however, isn't it.
this is a messageboard right? am i, like all others here, not supposed to point out her contradictions? i don't get it.
Don't act so obtuse. You know what I mean. There's a manner in which one can contradict w/o being abrasive or cruel...
...this, however, isn't it.
What exactly is the point of trying to convince someone the Bible is true?
i'm not trying to write a paper to gain a PhD man... i say what i say here on this messageboard exactly how i'd say it in real life. sorry if i come across in a manner you don't see fit.
and i don't see how i was cruel at all.
crazy is as crazy does man and from a ton of the stuff i've read from angel_luv i can tell she's sincere and a kind person but i have also heard the same out of the mouth of those who are and were crazy. case in point, my brother(who attended face church of christ off o'connor rd and ended up in a cult outside of st. louis because he was duped into believing he was being sent to ministry school up north and instead got driven out to this camp) and my old neighbors(husband ended up killing his wife last yr with a hammer and a knife and guess what my neighbors were huge religious fools).
Christians are their own worst enemy.
You and this poster should hang out.
Should I post some your cruel comments you've said about me?
I never claimed to share a_l's uncanny ability to refrain. If you talk to me (which you often do), I'll respond in kind.
Yes, I am a Christian. I do not find my wife's beliefs to be way out there. As a matter of fact, they are beliefs I firmly believe as well.
Choose whom you will serve.
I choose Jesus. In all honestly, coming to Christ has made a significantly positive impact in my life, more so than anything else.
So you believe that an apocalyptic book is meant to be read like a work of non-fiction-- that is, that literally a beast with seven heads and ten horns will appear. You do not- as most Christians I know- believe it is an allegorical and symbolic writing?
Doesn't change a thing for me.
Do you wonder if George Clooney is the anti-Christ? How about the myriads of other people who are popular. Your claim can only be justified if you worry just as greatly that every other person who is popular is the anti-Christ. Otherwise, you are hiding your hatred for Obama behind an "acceptable" excuse for it.
George Clooney was voted Sexiest Man Alive in '06. Barack Obama was voted to be the Leader of the Free World in '08. They may both have charisma, but that charisma affects people in ENTIRELY different ways.
I think you know that it's not just about being "popular."
Faith is not acheived by posting articles or trying to provide arguments that attempt to convince others that the Bible is true. Christians really need to stop wasting time and energy on it. Jesus is not a game you are trying to win by outwitting someone.
I agree. I think Angel believes she is doing something good. By setting herself up as a"martyr" she is trying to prove something. She wants the hatred and the drama to show she is a good Christian because people oppose her. Someone I know has tried to quote to me about how the world should hate you and that shows you are such a great Christian. I told him people do not dislike him because of his faith but because he is an asshole. Not the same thing.
Most Christians I know believe that it will literally happen the way it is written.
From USCCB:
A literal portrayal is a view held by certain factions of evangelical Christianity, not by the majority of Christians or denominations.The Apocalypse, or Revelation to John, the last book of the Bible, is one of the most difficult to understand because it abounds in unfamiliar and extravagant symbolism, which at best appears unusual to the modern reader. Symbolic language, however, is one of the chief characteristics of apocalyptic literature, of which this book is an outstanding example. Such literature enjoyed wide popularity in both Jewish and Christian circles from ca. 200 B.C. to A.D. 200.
This book contains an account of visions in symbolic and allegorical language borrowed extensively from the Old Testament, especially Ezekiel, Zechariah, and Daniel. Whether or not these visions were real experiences of the author or simply literary conventions employed by him is an open question.
This much, however, is certain: symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal descriptions, nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically. One would find it difficult and repulsive to visualize a lamb with seven horns and seven eyes; yet Jesus Christ is described in precisely such words (Rev 5:6). The author used these images to suggest Christ's universal (seven) power (horns) and knowledge (eyes). A significant feature of apocalyptic writing is the use of symbolic colors, metals, garments (Rev 1:13-16; 3:18; 4:4; 6:1-8; 17:4; 19:8), and numbers (four signifies the world, six imperfection, seven totality or perfection, twelve Israel's tribes or the apostles, one thousand immensity). Finally the vindictive language in the book (Rev 6:9-10; 18:1-19:4) is also to be understood symbolically and not literally. The cries for vengeance on the lips of Christian martyrs that sound so harsh are in fact literary devices the author employed to evoke in the reader and hearer a feeling of horror for apostasy and rebellion that will be severely punished by God.
The lurid descriptions of the punishment of Jezebel (Rev 2:22) and of the destruction of the great harlot, Babylon (Rev 16:9-19:2),are likewise literary devices. The metaphor of Babylon as harlot would be wrongly construed if interpreted literally. On the other hand, the stylized figure of the woman clothed with the sun (Rev 12:1-6), depicting the New Israel, may seem to be a negative stereotype. It is necessary to look beyond the literal meaning to see that these images mean to convey a sense of God's wrath at sin in the former case and trust in God's providential care over the church in the latter.
The Book of Revelation cannot be adequately understood except against the historical background that occasioned its writing. Like Daniel and other apocalypses, it was composed as resistance literature to meet a crisis. The book itself suggests that the crisis was ruthless persecution of the early church by the Roman authorities; the harlot Babylon symbolizes pagan Rome, the city on seven hills (17, 9). The book is, then, an exhortation and admonition to Christians of the first century to stand firm in the faith and to avoid compromise with paganism, despite the threat of adversity and martyrdom; they are to await patiently the fulfillment of God's mighty promises. The triumph of God in the world of men and women remains a mystery, to be accepted in faith and longed for in hope. It is a triumph that unfolded in the history of Jesus of Nazareth and continues to unfold in the history of the individual Christian who follows the way of the cross, even, if necessary, to a martyr's death.
Though the perspective is eschatological--ultimate salvation and victory are said to take place at the end of the present age when Christ will come in glory at the parousia--the book presents the decisive struggle of Christ and his followers against Satan and his cohorts as already over. Christ's overwhelming defeat of the kingdom of Satan ushered in the everlasting reign of God (Rev 11:15; 12:10). Even the forces of evil unwittingly carry out the divine plan (Rev 17:17), for God is the sovereign Lord of history.
The Book of Revelation had its origin in a time of crisis, but it remains valid and meaningful for Christians of all time. In the face of apparently insuperable evil, either from within or from without, all Christians are called to trust in Jesus' promise, "Behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age" (Matthew 28:20). Those who remain steadfast in their faith and confidence in the risen Lord need have no fear. Suffering, persecution, even death by martyrdom, though remaining impenetrable mysteries of evil, do not comprise an absurd dead end. No matter what adversity or sacrifice Christians may endure, they will in the end triumph over Satan and his forces because of their fidelity to Christ the victor. This is the enduring message of the book; it is a message of hope and consolation and challenge for all who dare to believe....
http://usccb.org/nab/bible/revelation/intro.htm
The seven heads and ten horns are written to represent things that will literally take place. They are, as you said, symbolic.
When I said I believe the Bible is factually true, I meant that I believe that everything the Bible said happened, DID happen and that everything the Bible prophesizes will happen IS going to occur.
I have always anticipated that the anti-christ would be a skilled politician and likely the President of the United States ( if the anti-christ is to come from America.) That is why George Clooney never drew my su ision- though he is, as you said, popular.
symbolic or allegorical does not equal literal.
i'm sorry, how long has the united states existed?
One cannot participate in a discussion unless one is allowed to speak one's mind.
In all my posts, I am simply stating my perspective on a given subject. I value the Word of God. The Bible is something I read daily, so it is always in the forefront of my mind. The Word of God and my faith in Christ are themes that are prevelent in every conversation I have, whether on the Internet or in person.
There are a host of very high iq people on here. There are many people that I consider to be much more formally educated, business savvy, and street smart than me. I honestly do not expect to ever outwit anyone on here nor do I desire to.
What I do pray is that my words bring people encouragement. I hope I am instrumental in leading people to the Lord.
If I feel a person, situation, or trend could be destructive and/or dangerous, I am going to say so because I feel I have a moral responsibility to do so.
My responsibility is to live righteously, lawfully, and honestly before the world and in all three regards my conscience is clear.
Yeah...this is pretty epidemic among evangelicals today. Christians look at that scripture and use it as an excuse when they feel persecuted. They don't take the time to think about the possibility of themselves being the problem.
Jesus was liked by just about everyone he approached...except the religious people of the day, who he called out repeatedly because of their self seeking motives. If one looks closely, the church today looks eerily similar to the religious establishments of that time. They look out for their own first and foremost, they reject anyone who doesn't fit in with them doctrinally(the bulk of most denominational doctrine was created by men) and they would much rather see themselves be proven right instead of showing love.
nah, you waited until obama ran for office.
its much more subtle to define it this way.
Your approach is the problem. When you do things like posting the article you posted it sends only one message..."Ha! Look! I am right and you are wrong." This is not encouraging, it's arrogant.
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