LMAO Lakers

[Goran Dragic]

This is how I know you aren't really coming from a point of credibility that someone who has really watched the Lakers this year would have.

Bynum and Gasol's at udes aren't a problem this year, both of them have very basketball-related issues that are affecting their performances.

And Odom is not playing half-assed this year, he's actually playing hard every night for the first time in years.

Having a fantastic record is not indicative of real, SERIOUS problems not existing. Just ask the 2007 Mavs or the Cavaliers last year. Or the Pistons from 2005-2008. Our record being as good as it is means absolutely nothing as far as i'm concerned, as someone who has watched every game and knows the team inside and out.

I'm not saying I know more about the Lakers than you so quit getting so defensive.

The 2007 Mavs and 2009 Cavs comparison makes no sense. Those two teams played extremely hard during the regular season, maybe I don't watch every LA game but you'd have to be blind to think LA is going 100% night in and night out.

[picc84]

This just shows your non-sense? ? That just shows you greatly over exaggerate everything. Spurs have the best "bench" in the league by all statistical measures.

I am sure Dice is compared to other bench bigs coming off the bench. I am sure Richard Jefferson is compared to other bench players. I am sure 2 of the best 3 point shooters in the league are compared to that "trash" LA has on their bench.

Bonner, Jefferson, and Mason? The three players Spurs fans regularly wish death upon in the main forum? And McDyess's 6 and 5 per game? How is that better than the other teams' bigs? And when did Richard Jefferson start coming off the bench anyway?

[picc84]

I'm not saying I know more about the Lakers than you so quit getting so defensive.

The 2007 Mavs and 2009 Cavs comparison makes no sense. Those two teams played extremely hard during the regular season, maybe I don't watch every LA game but you'd have to be blind to think LA is going 100% night in and night out.

I'm just saying your comments about Gasol/Bynum/Odom show you haven't really been watching the team to the point where you know if and where there is a problem or not. I wasn't trying to go in on you.

[Goran Dragic]

I'm just saying your comments about Gasol/Bynum/Odom show you haven't really been watching the team to the point where you know if and where there is a problem or not. I wasn't trying to go in on you.

What do you think Gasol and Bynum's problem is? When I see Gasol play well, sign an extension, and then immediately drop off, it seems like an at ude problem. Bynum is just a lazy sack of who I thought would have a huge year but can't seem to get his head right.

[DPG21920]

Bonner, Jefferson, and Mason? The three players Spurs fans regularly wish death upon in the main forum? And McDyess's 6 and 5 per game? How is that better than the other teams' bigs? And when did Richard Jefferson start coming off the bench anyway?

You said outside of Manu the Spurs bench was . The Spurs have had the best bench in the league all year.

RJ has been coming off the bench for about 8-10 games and that is how it is going to be going forward.

Yes, McDyess's 6 & 5.

[DPG21920]

The Cavs starters and bench at least equal the overall basketball-related ability of the Lakers.

Why can't you just answer the question? Are the Cavs 5 best players (Lebron, Jamison, Shaq, Varejao & Mo) better than or equal to the Lakers 5 best players (Kobe, Odom, Artest, Bynum & Pau)?

[DPG21920]

Look, this is not to say the Cavs don't have great talent. With the addition of Jamison, the gap is pretty close between the Lakers and the Cavs. The Mavs are pretty close as well. Maybe the Magic and Celtics, but it does not appear that way as things stand today.

But when you look at the stretch where Kobe was out and they crushed SAS, UTA & POR and then you ask yourself, "if the Cavs lost Lebron, could they do that", you see the difference imho.

[DPG21920]

Also, at you dogging Dice for his 6 & 5.6 when Varejao averages 6.9 & 6.7 in more minutes and is one of CLE's top 5 players

[picc84]

Why can't you just answer the question? Are the Cavs 5 best players (Lebron, Jamison, Shaq, Varejao & Mo) better than or equal to the Lakers 5 best players (Kobe, Odom, Artest, Bynum & Pau)?

Why do you keep insisting I answer this loaded question? My original point was that OVERALL the Cavs are no less stacked than LA. But just to shut you up about it:

Lebron is better than Kobe by the same margin Odom is better than Jamison, if not more.

Shaq's value is similar to Artest's, even now.

Varejao is MORE valuable than Bynum.

The only real gap in that comparison is Mo Williams to Gasol, which is neutralized by how much better the REST of the Cavs are than the REST of the Lakers. And any gap between Gasol and his respective counterpart big on the Cavs is completely obliterated by the gap between Williams and Fisher.

So yes, LA's best 5 players are slightly superior to Cleveland's, but the rest of the players are lopsided in Cleveland's favor.

[picc84]

Also, at you dogging Dice for his 6 & 5.6 when Varejao averages 6.9 & 6.7 in more minutes and is one of CLE's top 5 players

at you not realizing defense is part of a players value

[picc84]

Look, this is not to say the Cavs don't have great talent. With the addition of Jamison, the gap is pretty close between the Lakers and the Cavs. The Mavs are pretty close as well. Maybe the Magic and Celtics, but it does not appear that way as things stand today.

But when you look at the stretch where Kobe was out and they crushed SAS, UTA & POR and then you ask yourself, "if the Cavs lost Lebron, could they do that", you see the difference imho.

SAS has been beaten by much worse teams than LA minus Kobe, Utah was on a back to back, and Portland was playing without pretty much everybody. I would actually love to see Cleveland play a few games without Lebron so everyone could see that its not 2007 anymore and they are a ing fantastic team.

[DPG21920]

Why do you keep insisting I answer this loaded question? My original point was that OVERALL the Cavs are no less stacked than LA. But just to shut you up about it:

Lebron is better than Kobe by the same margin Odom is better than Jamison, if not more.

Shaq's value is similar to Artest's, even now.

Varejao is MORE valuable than Bynum.

The only real gap in that comparison is Mo Williams to Gasol, which is neutralized by how much better the REST of the Cavs are than the REST of the Lakers. And any gap between Gasol and his respective counterpart big on the Cavs is completely obliterated by the gap between Williams and Fisher.

So yes, LA's best 5 players are slightly superior to Cleveland's, but the rest of the players are lopsided in Cleveland's favor.

Wow that is pretty terrible analysis imo. Lebron is better than Kobe, but Kobe is still a top 3 player in the league. Pau is better than Shaq. Bynum is better than Jaimson. Odom is better than Andy. Artest and Mo are similar.

The point is that the Lakers best 5 is better than the Cavs, and assuming most teams only play 8-9 man rotations when it matters, I don't think that Big Z, West & Parker are so much better than Farmar, Brown & Fisher that it closes the gap.

Those players might help, but the bulk of the load will carried by the top 5-6 players.

So are you saying that Big Z/West/Parker are just overwhelmingly better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher?

at you not realizing defense is part of a players value

Then why did you quote Dice's stats? Why do you act like Dice is some defender? Is he struggling? Yes. Is Andy a better defender? Yes. But you brought the numbers into the equation and Andy's offense is .

SAS has been beaten by much worse teams than LA minus Kobe, Utah was on a back to back, and Portland was playing without pretty much everybody. I would actually love to see Cleveland play a few games without Lebron so everyone could see that its not 2007 anymore and they are a ing fantastic team.

Make any excuse that you want, but I don't see the Cavs winning many games like LA did without Kobe, if Lebron is out of the picture. Especially not by the margin of victory the Lakers had.

[picc84]

What do you think Gasol and Bynum's problem is? When I see Gasol play well, sign an extension, and then immediately drop off, it seems like an at ude problem. Bynum is just a lazy sack of who I thought would have a huge year but can't seem to get his head right.

Bynums problem is that he's not good at anything but scoring, he never passes the ball, he is extremely immature, and he has zero basketball IQ.

Gasol's problem is he's soft as leather and every team is now testing him on it and not letting him get away with finessing through the game.

There is a reason Cleveland's bigs have completely dominated our's in both games we've played this year, and its not because of an at ude problem. Shaq may not have Bynums pure scoring ability anymore but he runs circles around him terms of smarts and experience. Varejao is literally everything Bynum is not, and he and Shaq both are so physical they neutralize Gasol's soft ass finesse game.

DPG seems to think a players worth is based entirely on how many moves he has on offense.

[Goran Dragic]

Jawad Williams is way better than Josh Powell, so Cleveland has the edge.

[DPG21920]

DPG seems to think a players worth is based entirely on how many moves he has on offense.

Fail. You bring up offensive numbers. Not me. Keep in mind, I am a Spurs fan. Where do the Lakers rank defensively?

[DPG21920]

Lakers are 8th in PPG against, 2nd in differential, 5th in OPP FG%, 1st in OPP 3PT%. That team sucks at defense.

[DPG21920]

Shaq and Jamison are also defensive beast. Especially Shaq in the pick and roll. Certainly better than Pau & Bynum.

[TheMACHINE]

Cavs Best 9 Players:

Lebron
Jamison
Varejao
Shaq
Mo Williams
West
Parker
Big Z
Hickson

Lakers Best 9 Players:

Kobe
Pau
Bynum
Artest
Odom
Brown
Farmar
Fisher
Walton

So please show which players on the Cavs are better than the Lakers.

lol this list alone shows why the cavs are better then the lakers.

lol Walton
lol Brown...who the was Shannon Brown b4 the lakers.
lol Fisher

I cant "lol" anyone on the cavs team.

[DPG21920]

No, it doesn't. It is already agreed the Laker's best 5 is better than the Cav's best 5. So you are saying Z/West/Parker are so much better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher that is closes that gap?

[picc84]

Wow that is pretty terrible analysis imo. Lebron is better than Kobe, but Kobe is still a top 3 player in the league. Pau is better than Shaq. Bynum is better than Jaimson. Odom is better than Andy. Artest and Mo are similar.

All you did was change around which player was compared to who. You can't really dispute that my comparisons were accurate. Your's are too. We both agree that the 5 best players on each team lean slightly to LA. But once again, that is not and never was the main point of my argument.

and assuming most teams only play 8-9 man rotations when it matters, I don't think that Big Z, West & Parker are so much better than Farmar, Brown & Fisher that it closes the gap.

Last year we ran a 10 man rotation in the playoffs. You can act like the 5 extra players on both teams are insignificant all you want, we both know its bull .

As for the bolded part, why do you keep acting like the gap between the LA best 5 and Cleveland's is so large? Its certainly no bigger than the one between the rest of the teams.

So are you saying that Big Z/West/Parker are just overwhelmingly better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher?

West/Parker/Hickson/Big Z/Gibson is not even in the same ballpark as Farmar/Brown/Powell/Walton/Fisher. Delonte West by himself is worth any two of those players.

Then why did you quote Dice's stats? Why do you act like Dice is some defender? Is he struggling? Yes. Is Andy a better defender? Yes. But you brought the numbers into the equation and Andy's offense is .

Are you really trying to act like there is any comparison at all between McDyess and Varejao? This strikes me as very disingenuous. Varejao has better stats AND blows him away in intangibles. Drop it.

Make any excuse that you want, but I don't see the Cavs winning many games like LA did without Kobe, if Lebron is out of the picture. Especially not by the margin of victory the Lakers had.

I know you don't. Thats why after Lebrons eventual injury I will be very amused when this argument is exposed for the crap it is.

Not that I am pulling for Lebron to get injured. I am not.

[picc84]

Shaq and Jamison are also defensive beast. Especially Shaq in the pick and roll. Certainly better than Pau & Bynum.

Yeah, because Bynum is a terror on the pick and roll.

If you are so aware of defense's value, why did you compare McDyess with Varejao?

[DPG21920]

Including guys like Daniel Gibson who is absolutely terrible along with a guy like Hickson who won't play does not change the fact that it is all about the best 5-6 players. The percentage of weight of responsibility that lies on those players is far greater than the next 2-3 guys.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, because Bynum is a terror on the pick and roll.

If you are so aware of defense's value, why did you compare McDyess with Varejao?

What are you talking about? I said that Dice was on the bench. You said everyone outside of Manu sucks and you specifically referenced Dice's numbers. I posted Andy's numbers which really aren't much better as a basis of comparison to show you how hypocritical it is to bring numbers into it in that regard.

If you are going to dog Dice's numbers and ignore his "intangibles", then Andy's numbers need to be scrutinized as well because they aren't really much better.

Had nothing to do with defense and everything to do with you bringing up offensive numbers as a reference to why Dice "sucks".

[DPG21920]

Yeah, because Bynum is a terror on the pick and roll.

If you are so aware of defense's value, why did you compare McDyess with Varejao?

So Shaq & Jamison are better defensively than Bynum & Pau? Mo Williams is a good defender? Odom and Artest and Kobe are not good defenders?

[TheMACHINE]

No, it doesn't. It is already agreed the Laker's best 5 is better than the Cav's best 5. So you are saying Z/West/Parker are so much better than Farmar/Brown/Fisher that is closes that gap?

best 9 overall is better for cavs