Canadian faces bankruptcy to receive life-saving...

[Yonivore]

...medical care in America because a Canadian death panel dithered over his case until it was too late and then, because they dithered, decided he was no longer surgery-worth.

Sick man faces bankruptcy — or death

uffering from brain cancer, Kent Pankow was literally forced to go to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn. for lifesaving surgery — at a cost to family and friends of $106,000 — after the health-care system in Alberta left him hanging in bureaucratic limbo for 16 crucial days, his tumour meanwhile migrating to an unreachable part of the brain, while it dithered over his case file, ultimately deciding he was not surgery worthy.

Welcome to Obamacare.

[exstatic]

See, the fallacy in these "examples" is that it makes it seem like people get what they need under the robber-baron care system we have now. If I'm going to get screwed, I'd prefer it to be at low cost. People are denied every day by Humana and United Health Care. Where's that story? I'll tell you. If they cited every example, there would be no other news.

[ChumpDumper]

Gee Yoni, maybe you can show me the single payer provisions of this current health care bill?

Give us a link.

[Yonivore]

See, the fallacy in these "examples" is that it makes it seem like people get what they need under the robber-baron care system we have now. If I'm going to get screwed, I'd prefer it to be at low cost. People are denied every day by Humana and United Health Care. Where's that story? I'll tell you. If they cited every example, there would be no other news.

This guy didn't have Humana or United Health Care and he received treatment. That's the story. He had the option to go into debt to save his own life...and, he took it.

Under Obamacare (just like under Canada's system) you won't have that option...if the Government deems you un-surgery-worthy, you're screwed unless there's a private Clinic in Mexico or Costa Rica that will treat you because, unfortunately, Mayo will be out of business.

[ChumpDumper]

No link yet?

[boutons_deux]

"Under Obamacare (just like under Canada's system) you won't have that option"

You Lie, pussy eater, You Lie, You Lie, you have nothing but lies.

[exstatic]

Mayo goes out of business. Right. You realize that Anheiser Busch stayed in business for 13 years during prohibition. Their business was actually outlawed. I'm tired of whiney companies that think they have a right to survive. Guess what. They don't. You adapt or you die. The weak ones will be weeded out. I'm guessing Mayo won't be one of those.

[Yonivore]

Mayo goes out of business. Right. You realize that Anheiser Busch stayed in business for 13 years during prohibition. Their business was actually outlawed. I'm tired of whiney companies that think they have a right to survive. Guess what. They don't. You adapt or you die. The weak ones will be weeded out. I'm guessing Mayo won't be one of those.

If the Government had taken over the brewing and distilling business and required all citizens to buy their booze from Uncle Sam, during prohibition, Anhauser Busch would have gone out of business.

There's your difference...

Thanks for playing.

[Duff McCartney]

Funny you mention Costa Rica because they have socialized medicine as well. Just like Canada.

And Yoni spare me your attacks on socialized medicine because for everyone person like this one, there's hundreds that decide not to take procedures because they can't afford them.

This guy would rather go into debt than die, well trust me for many Americans or anyone, 100K medical bills are nothing to sneeze at. We'll see if he ever pays for that procedure, or he dies before even half gets paid.

[Winehole23]

...

[Yonivore]

Funny you mention Costa Rica because they have socialized medicine as well. Just like Canada.

But, like Hawaii -- and, unlike Canada and Obamacare -- private commercial health care is still allowed.

And Yoni spare me your attacks on socialized medicine because for everyone person like this one, there's hundreds that decide not to take procedures because they can't afford them.

That's a choice.

You act as though health care doesn't cost real money.

This guy would rather go into debt than die, well trust me for many Americans or anyone, 100K medical bills are nothing to sneeze at. We'll see if he ever pays for that procedure, or he dies before even half gets paid.

Your point?

[ChumpDumper]

But, like Hawaii -- and, unlike Canada and Obamacare -- private commercial health care is still allowed.

Really? Where is private commercial health care outlawed in this bill?

Be specific.

[ElNono]

But, like Hawaii -- and, unlike Canada and Obamacare -- private commercial health care is still allowed.

I thought there was no public option in the current bill? Furthermore, the only option is forced private commercial health care?

[Yonivore]

I thought there was no public option in the current bill? Furthermore, the only option is forced private commercial health care?

The fines for companies that do not provide insurance to employees are less than the cost of providing said insurance. The fines for individuals not purchasing insurance, also, are less than the annual cost of premiums.

With the provision that insurance companies cannot deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, who is going to buy insurance before it is needed? I'm not and an employer would be stupid to continue providing insurance when it would be cheaper to pay the fine and tell the employee to buy it themselves.

How long will the commercial insurance industry survive in that climate?

Then, ask yourself, what is the solution? That's right -- THE PUBLIC OPTION.

Oh, and the government will control the costs of your "forced private commercial health care," making it no longer profitable for them. The best doctors and providers will migrate to an environment where they can earn what their services demand...say, Costa Rica.

[ChumpDumper]

The fines for companies that do not provide insurance to employees are less than the cost of providing said insurance. The fines for individuals not purchasing insurance, also, are less than the annual cost of premiums.

With the provision that insurance companies cannot deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, who is going to buy insurance before it is needed? I'm not and an employer would be stupid to continue providing insurance when it would be cheaper to pay the fine and tell the employee to buy it themselves.

How long will the commercial insurance industry survive in that climate?

Then, ask yourself, what is the solution? That's right -- THE PUBLIC OPTION.

A real mandate could survive quite easily.

[ElNono]

The fines for companies that do not provide insurance to employees are less than the cost of providing said insurance. The fines for individuals not purchasing insurance, also, are less than the annual cost of premiums.

With the provision that insurance companies cannot deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, who is going to buy insurance before it is needed? I'm not and an employer would be stupid to continue providing insurance when it would be cheaper to pay the fine and tell the employee to buy it themselves.

How long will the commercial insurance industry survive in that climate?

Then, ask yourself, what is the solution? That's right -- THE PUBLIC OPTION.

Not necessarily. It might just as well move the system back towards paying out of pocket. Isn't that what some of your conservative fellows want in the first place? Manage your own medical expenses?
As you know, there just isn't enough votes for a public option right now. I don't see that changing. I would argue that a public option would be even more unlikely should the GOP gain seats in the next election.

Oh, and the government will control the costs of your "forced private commercial health care," making it no longer profitable for them. The best doctors and providers will migrate to an environment where they can earn what their services demand...say, Costa Rica.

Your entire premise on how this will play out is entirely in your imagination.
If this proposed system fails, then we'll move to something else. Laws are not static. They get superseded all the time with new laws. Power changes.
I don't like the current proposition any more than you do, but your imaginary story is not scaring anyone here. At least not me.

[DMX7]

Oh, and the government will control the costs of your "forced private commercial health care," making it no longer profitable for them.

[Yonivore]

I don't think it's funny.

[DMX7]

I don't think it's funny.

I know, that's because you're "Reactionary".

[LnGrrrR]

...medical care in America because a Canadian death panel dithered over his case until it was too late and then, because they dithered, decided he was no longer surgery-worth.

Sick man faces bankruptcy — or death


Welcome to Obamacare.

This is the STUPIDEST F'ING LOGIC/ARGUMENT ever.

Oh no! A man in Canada has to come over here to get cured!

Whereas, if the same poor American got sick... he wouldn't even have the option to be reviewed.

Right now, the poor person dying in America doesn't have ANY options.

[LnGrrrR]

This guy didn't have Humana or United Health Care and he received treatment. That's the story. He had the option to go into debt to save his own life...and, he took it.

Under Obamacare (just like under Canada's system) you won't have that option...if the Government deems you un-surgery-worthy, you're screwed unless there's a private Clinic in Mexico or Costa Rica that will treat you because, unfortunately, Mayo will be out of business.

This is the SECOND MOST F'ING STUPID LOGIC/ARGUMENT.

I thought conservatives were champions of the free market?

So, if the free market cures all ills, and there are rich people, and they're dissatisfied with the healthcare marketplace... guess what?

That means THERE WILL BE F'ING RICH PEOPLE WHO WANT BETTER HEALTHCARE. RICH PEOPLE WILL WANT TO PAY LOTS OF MONEY FOR BETTER HEALTHCARE, CREATING A MARKET.

Yeesh.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Not necessarily. It might just as well move the system back towards paying out of pocket. Isn't that what some of your conservative fellows want in the first place? Manage your own medical expenses?
As you know, there just isn't enough votes for a public option right now. I don't see that changing. I would argue that a public option would be even more unlikely should the GOP gain seats in the next election.



Your entire premise on how this will play out is entirely in your imagination.
If this proposed system fails, then we'll move to something else. Laws are not static. They get superseded all the time with new laws. Power changes.
I don't like the current proposition any more than you do, but your imaginary story is not scaring anyone here. At least not me.

our yoni has always had an active imagination...

[Drachen]

...medical care in America because a Canadian death panel dithered over his case until it was too late and then, because they dithered, decided he was no longer surgery-worth.

Sick man faces bankruptcy — or death


Welcome to Obamacare.

Can you not find a similar situation where an American insurance company decided not to pay for someone's care and they died?

This is akin to you posting an article that says something to the effect of:

"A vancouver man had the sniffles and went to see his doctor, then was surprised to find out that he had a $20 copay for his visit."

then commenting: "welcome to Obamacare"

[George Gervin's Afro]

Can you not find a similar situation where an American insurance company decided not to pay for someone's care and they died?

This is akin to you posting an article that says something to the effect of:

"A vancouver man had the sniffles and went to see his doctor, then was surprised to find out that he had a $20 copay for his visit."

then commenting: "welcome to Obamacare"

What Yoni doesn't get is that you could easily replace Canada with the United States in the headline and an insurance company with the govt and it would be the same scenerio. People are rejected treatment in America and somethimes they take drastic measures to save their lives. Some sell their homes to pay for life saving procedures but Yoni's ok with that. But hey, healthcare is a privilege and not a right in Yoni's world.

[Drachen]

What Yoni doesn't get is that you could easily replace Canada with the United States in the headline and an insurance company with the govt and it would be the same scenerio. People are rejected treatment in America and somethimes they take drastic measures to save their lives. Some sell their homes to pay for life saving procedures but Yoni's ok with that. But hey, healthcare is a privilege and not a right in Yoni's world.

I completely agree with you on the replacement of names. The funny thing is someone trying to make such an arguement when there is so much about the bill that is legitimately bad. I support public health insurance, and the reform thereof, but the only way I could see myself supporting this bill is if I knew that it would be just one step on a very short path to a public option system.