I definitely didn't think he should get the extension a month ago, but he's clearly getting stronger as the season goes on and one again looks like the "old Manu" and not the "old" Manu. I had serious doubts as to whether he could ever become that player again after his very slow start, but he is there now. At this point you gotta extend him unless (1) he gets a nasty injury between now and the end of the season or (2) the team is going to be blown up.
im certain his gone this summer...some team will give a short contract with big money he cant refused
if rudy gay is going to get 10-15m a season next season, i see why gino cant check in his last paycheck
I disagree.
Manu is what he is thanks to the NT and the CABB. They were the ones developing him to the extend he ended up going to Europe.
He has been waiting for the right tournament to have a decent Farewell and he has a date with history should Argentina win gold in the WC.
I think Manu wants a last ride with the Golden generation and Turkey will be it.
NBA? He has three rings already...
He was robbed from his World Cup by some greek refs s on the final against Serbia a match he couldn't play because he injured his foot with Dirk's on the semi final...
For Manu's resume WC >>>>>>>>>> another ring... he's a winner... on every level... if he wins the WC he'll go down as a top 10 winner all time and top 25 basketball player all time... and first ballot HOF'er...
Last edited by urunobili; 03-11-2010 at 07:50 AM.
No argentinian in his right mind who had watched basketball before 2002 thinks that Manu owes something to NT.
You probably don't understand what NT means for non US people
Don't see why the cause and effect is related.
Again, I'd love to see him win the WC or another Gold medal. I don't think this will happen, even if he plays. Manu has given everything to the NT. It is time for him to think about how he wants to finish his NBA carrier.
It is just my humble opinion.
It's funny that after giving my opinion on this thread, I read multiple articles on the papers about a teleconference Manu gave yesterday where he says that as the WC gets closer, hi is starting to want to play it (but he also says it will be very difficult for him to be in Turkey - contract year, the twins, he is not getting younger, etc)
One other thing I want to remind people about when we talk about playing for National Teams is that the rule where NBA teams can't tell players not to play was not put in place by the players's union, but it's actually a pet peeve by the Commissioner with the whole 'expanding the NBA through FIBA' premise... As far as Stern is concerned, as long as players are insured to go play in these tournaments, it's all peachy. That's why I feel that the next CBA won't affect that ruling much, if at all.
My Ivan Drago impersonation: "If he is gone, he is gone."
Show must go on. Stop with the drama.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next CBA. I'm sure most owners rather have their multi-million dollar players not getting tired and fatigued by playing compe ively in the summer and it looks like owners will be having a lot of say.
Anyway, that rule you're talking about has been interesting to me since Dirk and Mark Cuban came to a mutual agreement about not playing for Germany. I'm not sure if thats a violation of that rule but hopefully Manu does the same for the Spurs and Buford.
Dallas Mavericks forward Dirk Nowitzki revealed Friday that the decision not to play for his country's national team this summer stems from a mutual agreement he hatched years ago with Mavericks owner Mark Cuban.
Irked by press reports suggesting that Cuban barred him for representing Germany at next month's European Championships in Poland, Nowitzki told ESPN.com that his relationship with Cuban is "stronger than ever" and that he had promised his boss that he'd take a step away from international play if the Germans managed to qualify for the Olympics. That happened last summer when Nowitzki's team finally made it to Beijing after missing out in 2000 and 2004.
"I'm not mad at Cubes at all," Nowitzki said in a phone interview. "He's been great to me these last 10, 11 years. He always let me chase my dream. And we always agreed that if I made the Olympics, it would be [time] to take a break.
"This time he basically told me, 'I'd prefer if you not play.' He kind of left it up to me. I think if I would have really kept harping on it, then he wouldn't have tried to stop me. But I think it's the right decision.
"I'm happy I'm keeping my word to him, because he kept his word to me for the last 10, 11 years."
The NBA's agreement with FIBA -- basketball's international governing body -- stipulates that NBA teams cannot prevent their players from participating in international compe ion in the offseason as long as the players' respective national federations can afford the requisite insurance.
The exception to that rule is when a player is injured or still recovering from a do ented injury, as evidenced earlier this week when the Mavericks did invoke their right to prevent reserve guard J.J. Barea from joining Puerto Rico's national team because Barea is still recovering from shoulder surgery in late May.
Another example is Los Angeles Clippers center Chris Kaman, who was not ready to play for Germany this summer -- after his contributions as a newcomer last summer helped the Nowitzki-led Germans make their Olympic breakthrough -- because of a stubborn foot injury that limited Kaman to 31 games last season.
Without Kaman on the roster for the European Championships, Nowitzki ultimately agreed that the potential payoff from grinding through an extra month of practices and games with no NBA-level help were minimal at best. Having celebrated his 31st birthday in June -- after a difficult end to the 2008-09 season during which he had to play through the arrest of his fiancee in the midst of Dallas' second-round series with Denver -- Nowitzki is bound to benefit from the extra rest heading into his 12th NBA season.
Nowitzki, though, conceded that his first taste of the Olympics only stoked his patriotism further, prompting him to start musing about a return to international play in the summer of 2011 to try to help Germany qualify for the 2012 Games in London.
"I'm not retiring from the national team," Nowitzki said. "I have to see where my body is at and where my career is at, but the Olympics were so good that I wouldn't mind trying again for London."
Reminded that he first has a big decision to make in the summer of 2010, when he can bypass the final year of his contract to become a free agent, Nowitzki said: "You know that a lot of things can happen in this league in a year, but I'm not looking to opt out right now. I've still got a year to figure all that out. ... Everything [about the future] is still open, but like I've always said, I'm still looking at finishing my career in Dallas."
Referring in part to the July acquisition of Shawn Marion, Nowitzki added: "I like where we're at. I think we made some good moves this summer. Now we've just got to give it some time so we can grow together."
Cuban on Friday described Nowitzki's international break as a non-issue, saying that "Dirk and I are good with everything."
Yet in spite of his longtime backing of Nowitzki's national-team excursions, Cuban remains a very reluctant supporter of international tournaments in general, having railed for years against the risks absorbed by NBA teams when star players such as Nowitzki return to FIBA play, where more physical contact is frequently allowed by referees.
Injuries suffered on international duty this month by San Antonio's Tony Parker (France) and the Los Angeles Lakers' Pau Gasol (Spain) have generated renewed concern about those risks. But Cuban's more recent frustration is tied to summer-league ball, after FIBA blocked players under contract with international clubs from participating in summer play in Orlando and Las Vegas without written consent from their overseas clubs.
Nick Calathes, selected No. 45 overall in June by Minnesota and dealt to the Mavericks on draft night, flew to Dallas in July to join the Mavericks summer-league squad, only to learn that the Greek club (Panathinaikos) he is contracted to play for in 2009-10 would not give him clearance. Calathes ultimately couldn't even practice with the Mavs.
"Dirk and I agreed last year after his Olympic run, which was his dream for Germany, that he would take a year off," Cuban said. "He has the option of returning after this year if that is what he wants to do. Hopefully, instead, the NBA will return the favor to FIBA in the use of our players that FIBA gave to us in summer league."
In announcing to the German media that Nowitzki would not be playing in Poland, federation president Ingo Weiss told reporters that "we accept this decision completely," describing his organization's relationship with the Mavericks as "excellent and reliable."
Nowitzki said he and Mavericks assistant athletic trainer Dionne Calhoun will instead travel to South Africa in early September with Orlando's Dwight Howard and other NBA players as part of the league's Basketball Without Borders program.
http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/...ory?id=4398590
and...
On july 1 he owes nothing to the Spurs.
Manu loves to play in NT. There´s nothing we can do
I know that Manu wants that little WC trophy in his hands. If he can, he goes for it.
Anyway, he will be a daddy this summer and need a new contract.
Last edited by Cherry; 03-11-2010 at 09:51 AM.
What I'm trying to point out is that the arrangement is between the owners and Stern. I don't think the CBA has much if anything to do with it.
If Dirk has a change of heart tomorrow, there's nothing Cuban could do other than trade Dirk's ass out of Dallas. Each player has different ideas when it comes to playing for their NT. Plenty of American players didn't feel the need to play for Team USA for the longest time.
Every player is different, and that's basically that.
If the Spurs want to have a chance at beign a contender team next season they have no option other than resigning Manu, they have no chance of getting another decent NBA player with their cap situation. IMO what the Spurs do with Manu will determine if the wave the flag or not for next season.
No doubt he gets it at this point.
I think there is plenty of doubt. I also think the Spurs are waiting to see how Manu performs the entire year as well just how much the cap is going to fall. They also kind of need to predict how a multiyear Manu deal will look in the new salary structure that will come in the new CBA.
Manu's individual price just recently went up, but all free agent prices are going down overall, probably including Manu's, so it's not completely cut and dry at this point.
The CBA has everything do with it. The CBA specifically protects the rights of NBA players to participate in international FIBA compe ions. Along with everything else in the CBA, it will be subject to negotiation in a future CBA.
From the 2005 CBA, Article XXIII, Section 3(a):
Off-Season Basketball Events.
No player may play in any public off-season basketball game, summer league (e.g., Southern California Pro League or the Rocky Mountain Revue Summer League), or public exhibition or compe ion of basketball skills (e.g., a slam dunk contest or a “tour” organized by an NBA business partner) (each a “Basketball Event”) unless such Basketball Event is approved in writing by the NBA and complies with the terms and conditions of this Section 3.
Then later in a discussion of the terms and conditions:
For purposes of this Section 3, off-season games in which an NBA player participates on behalf of his national basketball federation as part of an international FIBA compe ion (e.g., the Olympics and World Championships), and the preparatory Exhibition games in connection therewith, are excluded from the definition of “Basketball Event;” provided, however, that such exclusion shall not apply to any preparatory Exhibition game (other than games involving the U.S. national team) played and/or telecast in the United States.
http://www.nbpa.org/sites/default/fi...LE%20XXIII.pdf
So there it is. For those who ask "Why don't the owners do something about it?". The answer is that the right to participate in these events is incorporated into the CBA. Ownership can push for limitations in a future CBA but, as ElNono pointed out, corporate NBA/Stern sees these tournaments as a tool to grow the market for their product. Occasional injuries to key players may cause disproportionate damage to certain franchises, but that is viewed by the NBA as an acceptable cost of doing business.
I stand corrected then, thank you.
right now, manu has a better chance to win gold in the WC with the declining arg. NT than he does to win a ring with the declining spurs...
I agree with Urunobili that for Manu this is important, he definitely wants to have his last hurrah with the "gold generation" and this tournament is the last feather missing from his cap.
If the spurs press on that while another team doesnt, it could very well push manu to chose the other team's offer.
I still dont understand why people think not playing for the NT guarantees better health. If manu doesnt play for the NT and gets injured in preseason, does it make it less devastating? does the team lose less money? does the team get more capspace? its the exact same thing (in fact, as i understand it they lose less money if he gets injured for the NT than in preseason). Its just unreasonable to expect basketball players to not get injured. some people just need to blame someone...
Unfortunately Ginobilli will be gone. There are too many teams with a lot of cap space and the Spurs is not one of them. One of those teams that fail to get LeBron, Wade, ect. will overpaid Ginobilli as a consolation prize.
100% agree
Manu beat to 80% of the year because of that stuff, no thanks..
So a few good games against some of the weaker teams in the league(yes Cleve was missing their top players) and you want to rush and sign him to the extension? The spurs should wait until near (another month) the end of the season, see how he looks then, then open up talks.
Manu will not be playing at this top form that we have seen the last few games for the next 2 or even 3 years which he will want, count on it.
You sign players for what they will give back in the future not what they have done in the past.
A verbal agreement between Manu and the Spurs needs to be considered regarding his future international play. If he decides to play the spurs need to take that into account in what they will offer him- which should be less than if he forgoes playing in the international tournamnets. The spurs need to make an incentive for manu to skip international play.
The spurs need a plan to shore up the frontline with some talent and without it even signing back Manu will make no difference.
Last edited by rascal; 03-11-2010 at 12:49 PM.
Disagreed, the Spurs have a lot more chances of beating the Lakers or Cavs than Argentina has of beating team US.
The Spurs have to let him go…… that’s the most convenient situation for all parties involved….. Manu goes to a team where he can compete and has a chance to play for his NT, The Spurs open up space to develop new blood and start rebuilding right away (they aren’t winning anyways with what they’ve got) and Spurstalk get rid off the CoM and a bunch of blind homers….. it’s a win-win-win situation.
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