More Manu: "I am looking forward to playing (WC)"

[baseline bum]

^^ Manu's injury in the 02 WC practically ruined his 03 season.

[urunobili]

a tip for y'all... Manu is more interested in playing the London Olympics Qualifying tournament at home and the Olympics themselves than the WC

This sounds to me.. that whoever is going to sign Ginobili.. will have to know he plays for his team in the summer just like Nocioni, Scola, Delfino and ALL the ing golden generation players (but Hermann unless he changes his mind)....

[baseline bum]

Then offer him a two year deal with the second unguaranteed.

[diego]

Playing for the NT adds additional risk. The Spurs may decide that the risk of injury while playing for the NT, in addition to the unavoidable risks in signing Manu to a new deal, changes the risk/benefit equation to the point that they will not offer him a new deal. Some other team may be willing to assume that additional risk and we could, sadly, see Manu in a different NBA uniform next season.

Manu has every right to play for Argentina this summer. NBA teams also have every right to factor that decision into the dollars/years they are willing to offer in a guaranteed deal. Clearly, had Manu decided to forgo playing in the 2008 Olympics, he would already be playing under an extension through at least 2012.

I realize that and agree. My main point though, as I made in my other post, is that risks are part of the game, and that players that take risks are more valuable than those that dont.

I wouldnt fault the spurs for not offering manu a huge contract- its understandable for them to have reservations (especially considering the state of the rest of the team). And maybe some players plot out their careers thinking prudently and consciously about their health. But IMO the difference makers that play balls to the wall dont think prudently and consciously about their health, because they think they can do anything. And that is why most NT players (from which ever country or sport you can think of) have leverage over their pro teams- they are the best, and if one club won't allow them to play for their NT, another will.

[Mel_13]

Like a four year contract? I see the Spurs offering, at most, a two year contract.

There is a very complicated part of the CBA called the Over-36 rule. I don't completely understand it and I definitely can't explain it. Bottom line is that it makes it very unlikely that Manu will get offers greater than 3 years in length.

A full MLE deal for 3 years will be about 19M and it's hard to imagine a team with cap space offering more than 10M per year. So on a three year deal, the range of probable deals is between 19M and 30M.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

as of right now, the spurs arent paying his ing check during the WC. and he has shown that he can play basketball with his friends and perform for the team paying his ing check. or did manu not play well in 05 after the olympics, or 07 after the wc?

of course injuries suck no matter what, some people on this board need someone to blame and forget that though.

my point over all these years arguing this same issue time and again (and not just about manu, all international players including americans)-
if a player is thinking about minimizing the risk to his body while he is playing, he is not playing to the best of his ability. The players that play to the best of their ability are the ones that get chosen to represent their NT. They are also the most coveted by pro teams. Its not a coincidence. If manu thought like that (better minimize risks!), he wouldnt dive for loose balls, wouldnt drive into traffic, wouldnt step up for a charge, etc. If you dont have the courage to fight for a win, you'll have far less risk of injury, but also, no glory and no value to a compe ive team.

manu isnt planning to go skydiving or snowboarding or basejumping. He is planning to play basketball, you know, the same thing he's been doing for the past 25+ years. I will respect his decision if he chooses not to play the WC, but will be disappointed if he is unable to do it because of some contract bull . he has every right to play. And if he doesnt have faith in his body, he should just retire, because he loses most his value as a player if he is minimizing his risks out there, be it for the NT, the spurs or estudiantes de bahia blanca.

BTW, pop's managing of minutes has really worked out well for the spurs. it has kept everyone healthy and more importantly, the team's rotation and roles are in perfect synch.

sometimes, its smart to be prudent. other times, low risk means low reward. This is basketball, not chess.

Yeah, you've been arguing the same issue for years now, and last time he played for the NT he got injured and the Spurs have been suffering the consequenses ever since... but hey, happens.

This isn't a low risk = low reward scenario. This is a high risk = no reward scenario for the Spurs.

This isnt fairytale land. Aging players don't get to over exert themselves without consequence. You talk as if Manu doesn't have a history of untimely injuries. He doesn't have a right to around with the Spurs investment in him.

P.S. That contract bull is what his priority should be if he actually wants it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I realize that and agree. My main point though, as I made in my other post, is that risks are part of the game, and that players that take risks are more valuable than those that dont.

yeah, if the risk taking is done on behalf of the team that is paying your bills. Why is that so difficult to understand? You're arguing this whole thing from the player's perspective, but what about the interests of the team?

I wouldnt fault the spurs for not offering manu a huge contract- its understandable for them to have reservations (especially considering the state of the rest of the team). And maybe some players plot out their careers thinking prudently and consciously about their health. But IMO the difference makers that play balls to the wall dont think prudently and consciously about their health, because they think they can do anything. And that is why most NT players (from which ever country or sport you can think of) have leverage over their pro teams- they are the best, and if one club won't allow them to play for their NT, another will.

In other words, what are we arguing here? You've practically said it yourself here. Manu is in a position to tell the Spurs they can go screw themselves, he's going to play. The Spurs have every right to respond by not offering Manu an extension. You're not breaking any news here. That still doesn't take away from the fact Manu's the one ing with his relationship with the Spurs. I don't think its much to ask for some loyalty towards the team that is your livelyhood.

[Libri]

There is a very complicated part of the CBA called the Over-36 rule. I don't completely understand it and I definitely can't explain it. Bottom line is that it makes it very unlikely that Manu will get offers greater than 3 years in length.

A full MLE deal for 3 years will be about 19M and it's hard to imagine a team with cap space offering more than 10M per year. So on a three year deal, the range of probable deals is between 19M and 30M.

Thanks for clarifying.

[Mel_13]

I realize that and agree. My main point though, as I made in my other post, is that risks are part of the game, and that players that take risks are more valuable than those that dont.

I wouldnt fault the spurs for not offering manu a huge contract- its understandable for them to have reservations (especially considering the state of the rest of the team). And maybe some players plot out their careers thinking prudently and consciously about their health. But IMO the difference makers that play balls to the wall dont think prudently and consciously about their health, because they think they can do anything. And that is why most NT players (from which ever country or sport you can think of) have leverage over their pro teams- they are the best, and if one club won't allow them to play for their NT, another will.

For the most part, I agree. If Manu had a risk averse personality, he would not have become the very special player he is. Further, his experiences with the NT have made him a better NBA player. That seems self-evident to me.

Going forward, however, a Manu decision to end his NT career should not make the remainder of his NBA career any less noteworthy than it would be if he played this summer. One thing that also seems self evident to me, if Manu told the Spurs that his NT days were over a deal would be much easier to accomplish.

Both sides in this situation have legitimate interests to consider. Unfortunately, the legitimate interests of the two sides may result in separation.

[Phenomanul]

^^ Manu's injury in the 02 WC practically ruined his 03 season.

A season that still saw him hoisting the Larry O'Brien...

Wait... didn't the Spurs also win a le in 2005 after he played in the Olympics..??? And again in 2007 after Ginobili played in the 2006 WC...

One could even say that having led Argentina to a Gold Medal finish in 2004 is what propelled Ginobili to become an NBA star... from that point forward he was no longer a role player... he no longer played as one. That season saw the emergence of 4th quarter Ginobili and Pop calling the now famous top of the key screen for him to score, assist or get to the line... That decision was justified because the whole basketball world realized that Ginobili was special. No gold medal... I believe we wouldn't have seen this dynamic unfold.

People here like to suggest that playing in Beijing was the primary cause of his last injury... he injured himself while playing with the Spurs (not that I agree with his failure to give his injury adequate rest over the summer)...

But he's healthy now... he's got more things to consider than just health in his decision... but he is older, I'm sure he knows this factors in...

Many are acting as if playing FIBA ball is tantamount to the Spurs losing a season... If anything Beijing was the exception, not the rule... The Spurs have won 3 championships after 3 summers in which Ginobili played FIBA ball...

That said, I prefer he not play.... but I wouldn't judge him or hold it against him if he did....

[MaNuMaNiAc]

A season that still saw him hoisting the Larry O'Brien...

Wait... didn't the Spurs also win a le in 2005 after he played in the Olympics..??? And again in 2007 after Ginobili played in the 2006 WC...

People here like to suggest that playing in Beijing was the primary cause of his last injury... he injured himself while playing with the Spurs (not that I agree with his failure to give his injury adequate rest over the summer)...

But he's healthy now... he's got more things to consider than just health in his decision... and he's older...

Many are acting as if playing FIBA ball is tantamount to the Spurs losing a season... If anything Beijing was the exception, not the rule... The Spurs have won 3 championships after 3 summers in which Ginobili played FIBA ball...

That said, I prefer he not play.... but I wouldn't judge him or hold it against him if he did....

Why do you prefer he not play?

[rascal]

Yeah, you've been arguing the same issue for years now, and last time he played for the NT he got injured and the Spurs have been suffering the consequenses ever since... but hey, happens.

This isn't a low risk = low reward scenario. This is a high risk = no reward scenario for the Spurs.

This isnt fairytale land. Aging players don't get to over exert themselves without consequence. You talk as if Manu doesn't have a history of untimely injuries. He doesn't have a right to around with the Spurs investment in him.

P.S. That contract bull is what his priority should be if he actually wants it.

Manu is smart and will not play this summer. He will use the excuse of the newborns but his contract is the main reason. The spurs will sign him.

[angel_luv]

Manu is very ambitious.

Same with Tony, I fully understand a player wanting to represent their country.

I am sure this is not a decision Manu will make lightly. As he said, he has a lot to consider.

All the best to him.

If he does play, I will definitely root for him.

[Phenomanul]

Why do you prefer he not play?

Only because he's older (and every athlete regardless of nationality or sport is more susceptible to injury when they're older...) my view however is nowhere near as extreme or inflexible as those thrown around here...

[carina_gino20]

I understand that Manu's a compe or and he loves the game so much and also loves his country. But I also understand that he'll be 33 this year.

Just give it up, Manu. Let it go.

[baseline bum]

A season that still saw him hoisting the Larry O'Brien...

Good argument, especially neglecting the part about him being ineffective most of the season and not really finding a big role on the team because of that. I never expected a correlation=causation argument from you.

Wait... didn't the Spurs also win a le in 2005 after he played in the Olympics..??? And again in 2007 after Ginobili played in the 2006 WC...

And they got bounced in the first round in 2009 after a stress fracture ended his season. A stress fracture that was likely a result of not having any time off.

One could even say that having led Argentina to a Gold Medal finish in 2004 is what propelled Ginobili to become an NBA star... from that point forward he was no longer a role player... he no longer played as one. That season saw the emergence of 4th quarter Ginobili and Pop calling the now famous top of the key screen for him to score, assist or get to the line... That decision was justified because the whole basketball world realized that Ginobili was special. No gold medal... I believe we wouldn't have seen this dynamic unfold.

No, Ginobili being healthy in 2003-04 is what made him a star. Ginobili carrying the Spurs in the double OT game against LA and their 4 Hall of Famers was the birth of Ginobili the superstar.

[diego]

agree to disagree. My point is that if the spurs dont want manu taking risks, they shouldnt hire him to play basketball. If they want him to stand at the 3 point line and play matador defense so that he doesnt put himself at risk (after all, he is old and breaking down), then they might as well have kept finley. when manu plays basketball the way he plays it, he risks his health (and pop's), that isnt going to change.

speaking of fairytale land, FYI, the spurs investment in him, like any other business investment, is not guaranteed. they can get insurance for it, but there is no guarantee they wont lose their investment regardless of whether manu plays for the NT or not, regardless of whether he plays all out or not. manu has had untimely injuries, I agree. but he hasnt spent his entire career in street clothes. Quite the contrary actually, despite playing in the NT for most of his career. agree to disagree...

[barbacoataco]

The fact that the Spurs won championships three times after Manu competed in international play is a factor. It could be that the added benefit of playing in WC in terms of energy, momentum, confidence etc. actually outweights the risk of potential injury. The fact is that injuries can happen anytime and sometimes players get injured in the offseason anyway.

On the other side I do believe the human body needs a "rest" period and EVERY professional sport that I know of includes an off season. If international players are going to play year round that is a problem.

[baseline bum]

The fact that the Spurs won championships three times after Manu competed in international play is a factor. It could be that the added benefit of playing in WC in terms of energy, momentum, confidence etc. actually outweights the risk of potential injury. The fact is that injuries can happen anytime and sometimes players get injured in the offseason anyway.

How about the fact that Manu had two injury plagued and disappointing seasons after getting injured in international play?

[MB20]

Manu is a grown up man.
Whatever he decides, I´ll still support him.
No matter if he signs with the Spurs, other NBA team, Europe or the ARG league.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Manu is a grown up man.
Whatever he decides, I´ll still support him.
No matter if he signs with the Spurs, other NBA team, Europe or the ARG league.

I don't think I can say the same

[urunobili]

I don't think I can say the same

Don't let the door hit you as you leave...

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Don't let the door hit you as you leave...

as I leave? where am I leaving to?

[urunobili]

as I leave? where am I leaving to?

out of the CoM

[in2deep]

Manu can do whatever he wants. It's his body.