Page 1 of 6 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 142
  1. #1
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    Israel Feeling Rising Anger From the U.S.
    By MARK LANDLER and ETHAN BRONNER

    WASHINGTON — An ill-timed municipal housing announcement in Jerusalem has mutated into one of the most serious conflicts between the United States and Israel in two decades, leaving a politically embarrassed Israeli government scrambling to respond to a tough list of demands by the Obama administration.

    The Obama administration has put Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a difficult political spot at home by insisting that the Israeli government halt a plan to build housing units in East Jerusalem. The administration also wants Mr. Netanyahu to commit to substantive negotiations with the Palestinians, after more than a year in which the peace process has been moribund.

    With the administration’s special envoy, George J. Mitc , suddenly delaying his planned trip to Israel, the administration was expecting a call from Mr. Netanyahu, after a tense exchange last week with Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

    On Monday, however, Mr. Netanyahu sounded a defiant note, telling the Israeli Parliament that construction of Jewish housing in Jerusalem was not a matter for negotiation.

    He is struggling to balance an increasingly unhappy ally in Washington with the restive right wing of his coalition government.

    The prospects for peace in the Middle East seemed murkier than ever, as a year’s worth of frustration on the part of President Obama and his aides seemed to boil over in its furious response to the housing announcement, which spoiled a visit to Israel by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

    “What happened to the vice president in Israel was unprecedented,” said a senior administration official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. “Where it goes from here depends on the Israelis.”

    But the diplomatic standoff also has repercussions for the Obama administration. Its blunt criticism of Israel — delivered publicly by Mrs. Clinton in two television interviews on Friday and reiterated Sunday by Mr. Obama’s political adviser, David Axelrod — has set off a storm in Washington, with pro-Israel groups and several prominent lawmakers criticizing the administration for unfairly singling out a staunch American ally.

    “Let’s cut the family fighting,” said Senator Joseph I. Lieberman, independent of Connecticut. “It’s unnecessary; it’s destructive of our shared national interest. It’s time to lower voices, to get over the family feud between the U.S. and Israel. It just doesn’t serve anybody’s interests but our enemies’.”

    Relations between Israel and the United States have been uneasy ever since Mr. Obama took office with a plan to rekindle the peace process by coupling a demand for a full freeze in Jewish settlement construction with reciprocal confidence-building gestures by Arab countries.

    Neither happened, and Mr. Obama, who is not as popular in Israel as he is elsewhere around the world, was forced last September to make do with Mr. Netanyahu’s offer of a 10-month partial moratorium on settlements in the West Bank. But the president was outraged by the announcement of 1,600 housing units in an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood in East Jerusalem during Mr. Biden’s visit, administration officials said.

    Mr. Obama was deeply involved in the strategy and planning for Mr. Biden’s visit and orchestrated the response from Mr. Biden and Mrs. Clinton after it went awry, these officials said.

    The administration has used language intended to telegraph anger, defining the dispute not only in terms of the damage it could cause to the peace process but to the American relationship with Israel.

    “That is a whole different order of magnitude of importance,” said Daniel Levy, a former peace negotiator who is senior fellow and head of the Middle East Initiative at the New America Foundation, a research group.

    The last time relations between the United States and Israel became this strained, analysts said, was when James A. Baker, then secretary of state, clashed with the Israeli government in the early 1990s, also over settlement policy. The United States ended up withholding loan guarantees from Israel for a time.

    Mr. Netanyahu said the announcement of the housing development had surprised even him, and he apologized for its timing. But Mr. Obama feels that Mr. Netanyahu should have been in clearer control of the construction process and that he should have done what was needed to stop it, according to officials in Jerusalem and Washington.

    There is a feeling among officials in Washington that the Netanyahu government does not fully grasp how angry Obama officials have grown. But there are signs that it is sinking in.

    The Israeli ambassador in Washington, Michael B. Oren, used the word “crisis” about his country’s relations with Washington for the first time since taking up his job last year, in a telephone briefing to colleagues over the weekend, according to an Israeli official.

    Still, American and Israeli officials also made clear that the core security issues binding the two countries were not in jeopardy, and that what was happening was closer to a married couple having a bad fight rather than seeking a divorce.

    In the murky vocabulary of diplomacy, the scheduled talks due to start under American supervision are viewed by the Israelis mostly as “proximity” discussions, in other words procedural talks rather than substantive negotiations. But the Palestinians want the discussions to be as substantive as possible, an approach Mrs. Clinton demanded in her call to Mr. Netanyahu on Friday.

    The chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, said in an interview in his Ramallah office that the Palestinians and Israelis had exhausted direct negotiations and that it was time for America to take a more direct role. “We have a trust level below zero between the two sides,” he said.

    The settlement episode has enabled the administration to turn the tables on Mr. Netanyahu, some analysts say. But the question is whether it will be able to extract more concessions from him now.

    “The heart of the matter is whether the proximity talks are going to be productive, in the sense of opening a corridor to direct negotiations that will lead to a peace agreement,” said Martin Indyk, a former American ambassador to Israel.

    The timing of the dispute could not be more awkward for the administration, coming a week before the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the most influential pro-Israel lobbying group, meets in Washington. Mr. Netanyahu and Mrs. Clinton are both scheduled to speak to the group, which has condemned the White House’s tough stance.

    Mr. Biden may meet with Mr. Netanyahu while he is here, officials said. But there is no meeting planned between Mr. Obama and Mr. Netanyahu because the president will be traveling in Indonesia and Australia, a conflict which one official joked suits the administration well right now. “This may not be the best time for a face-to-face,” he said.

  2. #2
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,896
    In connection with this contretemps, what Gen. Petraeus said to Adm. Mullen and Mullen relayed to Israel wrt the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is striking:

    The Petraeus briefing: Biden’s embarrassment is not the whole story

    Posted By Mark Perry Saturday, March 13, 2010 - 11:05 PM

    On Jan. 16, two days after a killer earthquake hit Haiti, a team of senior military officers from the U.S. Central Command (responsible for overseeing American security interests in the Middle East), arrived at the Pentagon to brief Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Adm. Michael Mullen on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The team had been dispatched by CENTCOM commander Gen. David Petraeus to underline his growing worries at the lack of progress in resolving the issue. The 33-slide, 45-minute PowerPoint briefing stunned Mullen. The briefers reported that there was a growing perception among Arab leaders that the U.S. was incapable of standing up to Israel, that CENTCOM's mostly Arab cons uency was losing faith in American promises, that Israeli intransigence on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict was jeopardizing U.S. standing in the region, and that Mitc himself was (as a senior Pentagon officer later bluntly described it) "too old, too slow ... and too late."

    The January Mullen briefing was unprecedented. No previous CENTCOM commander had ever expressed himself on what is essentially a political issue; which is why the briefers were careful to tell Mullen that their conclusions followed from a December 2009 tour of the region where, on Petraeus's instructions, they spoke to senior Arab leaders. "Everywhere they went, the message was pretty humbling," a Pentagon officer familiar with the briefing says. "America was not only viewed as weak, but its military posture in the region was eroding." But Petraeus wasn't finished: two days after the Mullen briefing, Petraeus sent a paper to the White House requesting that the West Bank and Gaza (which, with Israel, is a part of the European Command -- or EUCOM), be made a part of his area of operations. Petraeus's reason was straightforward: with U.S. troops deployed in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. military had to be perceived by Arab leaders as engaged in the region's most troublesome conflict.

    [UPDATE: A senior military officer denied Sunday that Petraeus sent a paper to the White House.

    "CENTCOM did have a team brief the CJCS on concerns revolving around the Palestinian issue, and CENTCOM did propose a UCP change, but to CJCS, not to the WH," the officer said via email. "GEN Petraeus was not certain what might have been conveyed to the WH (if anything) from that brief to CJCS."

    (UCP means "unified combatant command," like CENTCOM; CJCS refers to Mullen; and WH is the White House.)]

    The Mullen briefing and Petraeus's request hit the White House like a bombs . While Petraeus's request that CENTCOM be expanded to include the Palestinians was denied ("it was dead on arrival," a Pentagon officer confirms), the Obama administration decided it would redouble its efforts -- pressing Israel once again on the settlements issue, sending Mitc on a visit to a number of Arab capitals and dispatching Mullen for a carefully arranged meeting with the chief of the Israeli General Staff, Lt. General Gabi Ashkenazi. While the American press speculated that Mullen's trip focused on Iran, the JCS Chairman actually carried a blunt, and tough, message on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict: that Israel had to see its conflict with the Palestinians "in a larger, regional, context" -- as having a direct impact on America's status in the region. Certainly, it was thought, Israel would get the message.

    Israel didn't.
    http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/pos...he_whole_story

  3. #3
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    Typical authoritarians in our government.

  4. #4
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,896
    How so?

    By authoritarians am I to take it you mean Petraeus and Mullen?

  5. #5
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    How so?

    By authoritarians am I to take it you mean Petraeus and Mullen?
    no. President Obama thinking he knows how to make things work over there.

  6. #6
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Post Count
    153,473
    no. President Obama thinking he knows how to make things work over there.
    Like when we invaded Iraq?

  7. #7
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Post Count
    154,411

  8. #8
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Post Count
    113,896
    no. President Obama thinking he knows how to make things work over there.
    For example, by sending Adm. Mullen to convey the effect Israel's intransigeance in the peace process has on the credibility and prestige of US forces in the region?

    Or maybe the WH denying CENTCOM's (i.e., Petraeus's) request to include the West Bank and Gaza in it's sphere of operations.

    Was that too authoritarian for you?

    Expressing official US displeasure at the announcement of new settlements in East Jerusalem during the VP's visit. Was that over the line?

    What exactly are you ing about, WC? Good friends sometimes disagree, or have divergent interests. That's what this furore really seems to be about to me.
    Last edited by Winehole23; 03-16-2010 at 01:46 AM.

  9. #9
    leveled up sook's Avatar
    My Team
    Houston Rockets
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Post Count
    9,632
    WC...don't be a ing moron, did you even read the article?

    Israel NEEDS to remain an ally, but they are being reckless right now!

  10. #10
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Post Count
    51,121
    I guess we will get to see just how powerful the pro-Israeli lobby is.

    I have said for years that what is in Israel's best interests is not what is in American best interests. I think sometimes we have lost sight of that.

  11. #11
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Post Count
    10,994
    I have said for years that what is in Israel's best interests is not what is in American best interests. I think sometimes we have lost sight of that.
    I agree.

  12. #12
    9mm nkdlunch's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    11,497
    this is all planned. Israel and US get in a "fight", Israel attacks Iran, US comes as "mediator" and everything is well.

  13. #13
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Post Count
    12,900
    Its amazing how Israel seems to have the US by the balls these days. Seriously now, how exactly does the US benefit from the Israel/US relationship? 'cause it seems to me Israel doesn't really seem to have the US best interests at heart.

  14. #14
    9mm nkdlunch's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Post Count
    11,497
    Its amazing how Israel seems to have the US by the balls these days. Seriously now, how exactly does the US benefit from the Israel/US relationship? 'cause it seems to me Israel doesn't really seem to have the US best interests at heart.
    you forgot about the thousands of Jewish millionaires that fund entire US political campaigns?

  15. #15
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Post Count
    10,994
    ...over one-third of those Americans who support Israel report that they do so because they believe the Bible teaches that the Jews must possess their own country in the Holy Land before Jesus can return....

    Their beliefs are rooted in dispensationalism, a particular way of understanding the Bible's prophetic passages, especially those in Daniel and Ezekiel in the Old Testament and the Book of Revelation in the New Testament. They make up about one-third of America's 40 or 50 million evangelical Christians and believe that the nation of Israel will play a central role in the unfolding of end-times events. In the last part of the 20th century, dispensationalist evangelicals become Israel's best friends-an alliance that has made a serious geopolitical difference...

    Dispensationalists believe that the Temple is coming too; and their convictions have led them to support the aims and actions of what most Israelis believe are the most dangerous right-wing elements in their society, people whose views make any compromise necessary for lasting peace impossible...

    According to the prophetic texts, par ioning is not in Israel's future, even if the creation of a Palestinian state is the best chance for peace in the region. Peace is nowhere prophesied for the Middle East, until Jesus comes and brings it himself. The worse thing that the United States, the European Union, Russia, and the United Nations can do is force Israel to give up land for a peace that will never materialize this side of the second coming. Anyone who pushes for peace in such a manner is ignoring or defying God's plan for the end of the age.
    http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Chri...rmageddon.aspx

  16. #16
    2nd Verse Same as the 1st Oh, Gee!!'s Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Post Count
    8,869
    WC...don't be a ing moron, did you even read the article?
    no, he heard about what he should think about it from Rush

  17. #17
    The cat won symple19's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Post Count
    16,246
    Netanyahu makes me sick, and the Israelis are becoming more and more of a nuisance. Stop building ing settlements, and stick to defending what you already have. I am somewhat sympathetic to them having to deal with constant security threats, but so many of those could be mitigated by reigning in the loony, conservative, hard-liners in their government.

    The US should start taking a harder line, and when AIPAC starts whining about it, give em' the middle finger. (yeah, right)

    The US should also make very clear that Northern Iraq is off- ing-limits to any Israeli aircraft, as is Turkish (and thereby NATO) airspace. This is in regard to any Israeli attempt to act out against Iran. If they violate it, shoot em' the down and teach them a lesson, one they wouldn't soon forget

  18. #18
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    7,563
    I see this as a direct challenge to Obama, and he needs to address at least as forcefully as he is, and perhaps more.

    Israel is an ally worth having. They should not, however, be the determinant of all US foreign diplomacy in the region.

  19. #19
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Post Count
    7,563
    Typical authoritarians in our government.
    WTF? Man this doesn't even make any sense!!

  20. #20
    Scrumtrulescent
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Post Count
    9,724
    Its amazing how Israel seems to have the US by the balls these days. Seriously now, how exactly does the US benefit from the Israel/US relationship? 'cause it seems to me Israel doesn't really seem to have the US best interests at heart.
    I wouldn't say Israel has the US by the balls. We're using them as much as they're using us. Israel uses the U.S. as the big brother who will come and beat the out of any nation that tries to with them. The U.S. uses Israel as the hired muscle who can go mix it up with Hamas and other assorted "meanies" that we don't like, thus allowing us to keep our hands clean.

  21. #21
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    WC...don't be a ing moron, did you even read the article?

    Israel NEEDS to remain an ally, but they are being reckless right now!
    No, like always, the democrats are being stupid when it comes to Israel.

  22. #22
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    this is all planned. Israel and US get in a "fight", Israel attacks Iran, US comes as "mediator" and everything is well.
    Israel doesn't need an excuse to attack Iran. I'll bet they have strike plane in place, and are just waiting for enough information collected to show the world they are right in doing so.

  23. #23
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    Its amazing how Israel seems to have the US by the balls these days. Seriously now, how exactly does the US benefit from the Israel/US relationship? 'cause it seems to me Israel doesn't really seem to have the US best interests at heart.
    How do their actions affect ours? They are all about protecting their own nation. Our politicians don't have a clue to what they deal with. When it comes to how Israel deals with it's neighbors, I think they are real softies.

  24. #24
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    The worse thing that the United States, the European Union, Russia, and the United Nations can do is force Israel to give up land for a peace that will never materialize this side of the second coming.
    Now I agree with this, but not for biblical reasons per se. I see it that the countries around Israel believe it is necessary to destroy Israel. Until the Muslims can be convinced that their religion is wrong, there will never be peace over there. Any concessions by Israel are a fools errand.

  25. #25
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    no, he heard about what he should think about it from Rush
    Who did you hear it from that anyone who believes as Rush does heard it from Rush?

    You are a total ing moron. Did you know that? I don't listen to Rush. I have maybe tuned in to his show once this year. I only turn the radio on when I'm in the car, and I am seldom in the car during the hours of his show.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •