What say thou now, Bogans haters???

[yavozerb]

I hate to break it to you, but if Keith Bogans were actually like Bruce Bowen in that he didn't have to score to contribute, then people wouldn't be starting threads about him when he scores 8 points on 7 shots in a victory. If you doubt me, then check the Spurs' record most of this season when Bogans has been getting heavy minutes.

I'm perfectly open to the possibility that the combination of losing his starting gig and Hairston getting more of his minutes has jolted Bogans into playing better, even so far as to humor your suggestion above that he's more than minimally responsible for the Spurs' record over the last ten games. I'm even hopeful that he keeps it up, despite every indicator this season saying that he won't.

Bogans is certainly much more useful to the team now that Pop can put in Hairston when Keith is having a bad night.

So you really think the spurs lose more often simply if bogans gets more minutes? since you like stat lines, please check what manu,TD, or even TP (when he was playing) played like during those losses and thats probably the reason for the loss, not bogans. Not really sure where you got bruce bowen's name since it was never mentioned..

[DesignatedT]

So you really think the spurs lose more often simply if bogans gets more minutes? since you like stat lines, please check what manu,TD, or even TP (when he was playing) played like during those losses and thats probably the reason for the loss, not bogans. Not really sure where you got bruce bowen's name since it was never mentioned..

exactly. With Tony Manu RJ Duncan on this team guys like Bogans,Mcdyess are not the guys who need to go out and dominate on the offensive end. Bogans is not going to lose us or win us the championship.. all the hate he recieves is unwarranted.

He plays hard, he plays defense, he hustles and he can hit the open 3. thats all thats expected out of him.

instead of pointing the finger at bogans who is 0/3 from the field with 0 points maybe we should look at our big 3 or "4" did in that game.. and thats the real reason we lose games...

[Obstructed_View]

So you really think the spurs lose more often simply if bogans gets more minutes?

I'm nearly positive that I never said that. I've said on more than one occasion that Bogans sucks. I'm waiting for a stat to prove otherwise though.

since you like stat lines, please check what manu,TD, or even TP (when he was playing) played like during those losses and thats probably the reason for the loss, not bogans.

Conversely, the play of those guys is probably the reason they've been winning lately, too. Which brings us back to my original statement that Bogans has failed to score in 5 of the last 10, which is evidence that he still tends toward sucking even though he is playing far better of late.

Not really sure where you got bruce bowen's name since it was never mentioned..

Oh, I'm terribly sorry. Please do let all of us know who you were referring to when you said:

Not everyone has to score to be effective, thought most spurs fans would relize this.

Since it would take a Spurs fan to relize it, you must be referring to a Spur. They would also have to be effective, unlike Bogans, and fail to score, like Bogans. So if you weren't trying to imply that Bogans is the new Bowen then I guess you've got me stumped.

[G-Dawgg]

I don't really know what to think of Bogans yet, but I can say that he has been playing alot more confidently lately and making alot of better decisions on offense -his cross-court pass to Hill for the open 3 was something I wasn't expecting from him! ..Whether or not his defense really is a difference maker in the outcome of games, I can honestly say that he does put in alot of effort on the defensive end...
-Props to him for playing alot better lately.

[jjktkk]

Bogans was doomed to fail the moment he signed with Spurs and Pop put him into Bowen's starting role as his "centerpiece/defensive stopper". I can count the number of sf/sg's in the league right now who possess the skill set of Bowen. So knowing this, I knew it would be near to impossible to find a adequate replacement for Bowen. Some fans wanted Hairston for that role, but even though Hairston outplayed Bogans in the preseason, Pop, not suprisingly, chose Bogan's expierence over Hairston inexpierence. And this will continue till the season is over. Hopefully Hairston continues get more playing time this year, including the playoffs and by next year be ready to compete for a starting job. This sf position still needs to be upgraded next year, reguardless of Hairston and if Bogans resigns with the Spurs.

[yavozerb]

Didn't watch the game, but i'm sure it was bogans fault we lost...

[z0sa]

Bogans sucks. He's not half the defender Bowen was last season, he can't shoot the corner 3 half as consistently as Bowen did, Bogans over Bowen is a priceless Pop failure. The Centerpiece.

[yavozerb]

Bogans sucks. He's not half the defender Bowen was last season, he can't shoot the corner 3 half as consistently as Bowen did, Bogans over Bowen is a priceless Pop failure. The Centerpiece.

Time to get over Bowen right about now...seriously, let him go, its ok..

[ElNono]

The problem is also how he's used. Take tonight: Manu sits down and Bogans comes in.
The drop of offensive talent right there is overkill, and he just isn't a good enough defender to offset it on the other end. What's even worse is that behind him you have Mason who has been worthless, and then Malik, who sucks at practices.
So we're really screwed.

[z0sa]

Time to get over Bowen right about now...seriously, let him go, its ok..

It's not ok.

[jjktkk]

It's not ok.

So z0sa, what did you want Pop to do about replacing Bowen? As its plain to see, replacing Bowen isn't so easy to do. Prior to the season I thought Bogan was a decent candidate to replace Bowen, along with the continued development of Hairston. Bogans is no Bowen, but I ask you who the Spurs could of realistically signed this year to replace Bowen?

[Chomag]

So z0sa, what did you want Pop to do about replacing Bowen? As its plain to see, replacing Bowen isn't so easy to do. Prior to the season I thought Bogan was a decent candidate to replace Bowen, along with the continued development of Hairston. Bogans is no Bowen, but I ask you who the Spurs could of realistically signed this year to replace Bowen?

Thats been kind of the problem, this team keeps trying to replace those special players. The Horry's amd Bowen's, how many teams have those players? Does Boston still try to replace Larry Bird. Is Chicago still trying to replace MJ. Is LA still trying to find a Magic Johnson?

[z0sa]

So z0sa, what did you want Pop to do about replacing Bowen? As its plain to see, replacing Bowen isn't so easy to do. Prior to the season I thought Bogan was a decent candidate to replace Bowen, along with the continued development of Hairston. Bogans is no Bowen, but I ask you who the Spurs could of realistically signed this year to replace Bowen?

I think Bowen in game conditioning would still be > Bogans. It's not sour grapes, it's just realizing a mistake since hindsight is 20/20. Bowen wasn't anything incredible anymore, but he could have done Bogans' job a lot better. So Bowen.

Just a rant, we got blown out by a contender and Bogans plays badly. he's just a scrub and Pop is calling him the Centerpiece I mean, sweet Jesus.. I understand it's a mind game to get the best effort out of Bogans, but Bogans isn't worthy of that kind of praise.. he's just not talented. The scarier half of that is Pop apparently thinks he's consistent enough to be a "centerpiece".. he's anything but consistent.

Hairston could have been the "centerpiece" better than this guy with some more time early on.

[jjktkk]

Thats been kind of the problem, this team keeps trying to replace those special players. The Horry's amd Bowen's, how many teams have those players? Does Boston still try to replace Larry Bird. Is Chicago still trying to replace MJ. Is LA still trying to find a Magic Johnson?

Exactly. Thats why dynasties in all sports end. You can't keep losing good to great players and realisticlly expect to keep winning at a high level. I had hoped that some combination of Bogans, Jefferson, Ginoboli, and even Hairston, could help offset the lost of Bowen. As we've seen this year, the Spurs desperately miss Bowen.

[Blackjack]

The problem is also how he's used. Take tonight: Manu sits down and Bogans comes in.
The drop of offensive talent right there is overkill, and he just isn't a good enough defender to offset it on the other end. What's even worse is that behind him you have Mason who has been worthless, and then Malik, who sucks at practices.
So we're really screwed.

[FeZZy]

dude where was your boy tonight you can talk about the haters if he's not gonna be consistent ...come on now

[ace3g]

yeah I agree, I was so pissed on that first subs ution: Bogans for Manu.

[Obstructed_View]

So z0sa, what did you want Pop to do about replacing Bowen? As its plain to see, replacing Bowen isn't so easy to do. Prior to the season I thought Bogan was a decent candidate to replace Bowen, along with the continued development of Hairston. Bogans is no Bowen, but I ask you who the Spurs could of realistically signed this year to replace Bowen?

The only way you replace a special player: With another special player or by committee. Developing multiple young players with long arms and quick feet who can each defend a couple of positions could make up for the loss in Bowen's versatility. Hill, Hairston and Blair can cover the range of players that Bowen could, and each is able to contribute on offense in a way Bowen rarely could.

[Agloco]

what???

Keith Bogans was a beast especially in the 1st half. Reducing Wade to a s and making 10 straight points.

Oh, I see. All Bogans haters went back to under their rocks.

the Bogans train was in tonight. The payload was: PAIN!

@ Bogans Love every 8th game or so.

[Agloco]

Exactly. Thats why dynasties in all sports end. You can't keep losing good to great players and realisticlly expect to keep winning at a high level. I had hoped that some combination of Bogans, Jefferson, Ginoboli, and even Hairston, could help offset the lost of Bowen. As we've seen this year, the Spurs desperately miss Bowen.

Or more accurately stated, the Bowen who played circa 2003-2007.

[santymrc]

I say, said, and will say, BOGANS SUCKS. Period.

[jjktkk]

The only way you replace a special player: With another special player or by committee. Developing multiple young players with long arms and quick feet who can each defend a couple of positions could make up for the loss in Bowen's versatility. Hill, Hairston and Blair can cover the range of players that Bowen could, and each is able to contribute on offense in a way Bowen rarely could.

Yes, the Spurs do need to find a sf prospect or 2 to develop. One veteran guy who will be available next year is Matt Barnes. I believe he is a UFA after this year, and is a Bruce Bowen clone. Barnes possesses alot of the same qualities that Bowen had when he was playing. Don't know how much $$$$ Barnes is looking for, but if the Spurs could sign him and add a sf thru the draft this summer, I would be estatic.

[santymrc]

Yes, the Spurs do need to find a sf prospect or 2 to develop. One veteran guy who will be available next year is Matt Barnes. I believe he is a UFA after this year, and is a Bruce Bowen clone. Barnes possesses alot of the same qualities that Bowen had when he was playing. Don't know how much $$$$ Barnes is looking for, but if the Spurs could sign him and add a sf thru the draft this summer, I would be estatic.

Barnes defended Manu and RJ. Couldn't stop them. He's a better defender allright, but not a stopper.

[jjktkk]

Barnes defended Manu and RJ. Couldn't stop them. He's a better defender allright, but not a stopper.

If you think about it, there are not a whole lot of defensive stoppers at the sf position. I would place Barnes alongside Shane Battier, Bogans(LOL,just kidding), and Raja Bell, to name a couple of really solid defenders in the league. Barnes would be a significant upgrade for the Spurs at the 3, if they would be able to sign him next year IMO.

[santymrc]

If you think about it, there are not a whole lot of defensive stoppers at the sf position. I would place Barnes alongside Shane Battier, Bogans(LOL,just kidding), and Raja Bell, to name a couple of really solid defenders in the league. Barnes would be a significant upgrade for the Spurs at the 3, if they would be able to sign him next year IMO.

What I do like about Barnes is that he can be more effective from the 3 (at times) and slashes to the basket without the ball a lot. But his defense is nowhere near the top of the league imo. Overall his good tho. Artest is waaaay better than him (even in a shooting slump).
But you're right, there are no defesive stoppers in this league anymore (Bell is not at his best) and the closest to it are usually undersized to play SF (Battier).
Nocioni is a good option but has a high pay-roll. He's undersized as well.
Noc and Barnes are very similar players. I'll trade Mason's ass and Bogans for Noc every day tho.