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Not rigged? Yes ask Tim Duncan about Joey Crawford.
Fact remains, regardless of how illogical our position may seem, that 2006 has some clear, essentially unarguable examples of questionable refereeing. How can one call Manu's touch foul on Dirk's wide open dunk and then not call Tim's arm being held the very next play and last play of regulation?
Not rigged? Yes ask Tim Duncan about Joey Crawford.
Those games were incredible to watch. If you want proof the NBA swings games, watch these games. Speaking of, are there any copies of these games around? The Spurs played incredible but couldn't beat the blatant calls for Dallas.
In Game 3, free throws were 50-32 Dallas. In game 4, free throws were even and foul calls only had the Spurs with three more, but if I remember correctly there were some really bad calls in favor of Mavs that kept the Spurs out.
Anybody know where there's a copy of these games?
It's been like this for a long time and the Spurs aren't the first to suffer (and/or prosper) from questionable officiating.
But...I'll live with 4 championships as compared to other teams who haven't even managed to garnish one.
And no...it wouldn't suprise me in the least if actual facts surface themselves proving games (teams) may have been given an advantage due to calls being made one way or the other.
That's the other "human" side of the story we may never know but highly speculate because...well...it's right in front of your face.
This does not allege an NBA conspiracy led by David Stern. It doesn't really allege anything except Donaghy's opinion.
You have got to be the stupidest conspiracy nut I've ever seen. You think there was a giant conspiracy to help the Spurs, but not to help the Lakers and other big market teams.
Last edited by Galileo; 03-04-2010 at 04:24 PM.
This does not alleged an NBA conspiracy led by David Stern. It doesn't really allege anything except Donaghy's opinion.
You have got to be the stupidest conspiracy nut I've ever seen. You think there was a giant conspiracy to help the Spurs, but not to help the Lakers and other big market teams.
You have to be the stupidest I've ever seen if you think I'm a conspiracy nut or if you somehow formulated the belief that I think conspiracies helped the Spurs. I simply don't think there are any conspiracies. For or against the Spurs or any other team for that matter. Plain and simple. Does that make sense to you, or is your brain that dumb that you can't even get that?
Not really. I berate Suns fans just as much who still harp on 2007 and whine about it.
You keep claiming there is a conspiracy against the Suns, please make up your mind.
You keep claiming there is a conspiracy against the Suns, please make up your mind.
No, I don't keep claiming conspiracies against the Suns. Learn to in read. The quote I keep posting could have just as easily been Spurs vs. Grizzlies, my point is that you seem to think Donaghy is this extremely credible source and take everything he says as fact EXCEPT for what he says about the Spurs vs. Suns series. Either all of what Donaghy says is true, or none of it is. I think it's all bull He wouldn't tell the complete truth about everything and then make something up about the 2007 series. You can't cherry pick what he says and declare what is true and what isn't.
The Donaghy incident suggests not a conspiracy but that Stern doens't actually have as much control over his refs as we thought. There's plenty of bad officiating but it's more likely because of bad officials.
Yup.
Bad or corrupted officiating doesn't mean there's a conspiracy leading all the way to the top. Sometimes incompetence or a few dirtbags is all it takes.
The other 29 fan bases in the NBA disagree.
I do think the 2006 playoffs had horrible officiating. National journalistis commented on it continually. A conspiracy? Or poor officiating from officials who've been at their job way too long? I'll go with the latter. Not saying I like Stern, but I think the situation is more chaotic then controlled (kind of like the rest of life.)
You don't speak for 29 fan bases.
Also, there's not just 1 series with questionable, game changing calls in 2006.
Donaghy never alleged a league-wide conspiracy for the 2007 Suns series. He said that Nunez had a grudge and was su ious. You need to provide some evidence that your theory is true about this series.
Meh, there's nothing we can do about this anyways..
There are plenty of conspiracy theories and plenty of obvious incidents(Lakers-Kings game 6), but the fans can't do anything about..all we can do is keep watching and hoping we're getting a legit game..it's still basketball and it's a beautiful sport..
Never underestimate the voice of the people.
These conspiracy theories are complete and total bull if you ask me. Have the Spurs gotten screwed by officiating in select playoff series? Yes, but so have a myriad of other teams over the years. Crying about officiating is pointless--you KNOW there's gonna be bad calls coming, so the teams that win are usually those that are so good that questionable calls don't swing the balance in the game.
I get so sick and tired of fans whining about their team getting screwed. Kings fans STILL can't get over the '02 playoff series. How bout you get a ing rebound at the end of a game and not let it bounce outside to Horry--that wasn't the first time he'd come up big at the end of a game btw. Suns fans that about the '07 series act like Horry telepathically communicated to Stoudemire and Diaw to leave the bench and act like total fools. There's thousand other examples, but the point is to shut the up about officiating and conspiracy theories--it just makes the entire fanbase look re ed.
Oh, and btw, Goran Dragic is owning like 2/3 of y'all on this thread. That's one suns fan with his head on straight right there.
Goran really doesn't understand what Donaghy actually is stating.
I thought that s bag ref fixed a Spews/Suns series.
His theory is that the Spurs beat the Suns because the Spurs were the better team and that it had nothing whatsoever to do with the officiating. In the same regard, his theory is that the Spurs won les in 1999, 2003, and 2005 because they were better than each of the teams they beat on their way to the le and not because the officiating had anything to do with it.
Are you saying that he needs to provide proof to you that the Spurs were better than the Suns in 2007? Something other than the fact that the Spurs won 4 games while the Suns won 2?
I'll go out on a limb and suggest that his theory is, furthermore, that the Lakers won the le in 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2008 because they were better than the teams that they beat in those playoffs and not because the officiating had anything to do with it.
Probably, too, he thinks the Pistons and Heat and Celtics won rings by being better than their opponents and not because the officials caused them to win.
I just got off the phone with Tim Donaghy. He's a really cool guy, and I'm going to book him for some radio interviews.
Galileo, that is awesome. Congratulations. I want to hear all about the interviews and what you're able to learn from Donaghy.
My opinion of him is that he's totally legit. The league had no choice but to bury him as a rogue referee. There's too much at stake to let people think for two seconds that there's a wider range of refs doing things to affect games, or that the league is encouraging practices which affect games.
I've been either a player or a fan my whole life, so it's obvious to me that games have been affected, and it's obvious to me that the league has affected certain trades as well.
Anyway, I'm particularly interested to hear if Donaghy sheds any light on how the league influenced referees in handling Laker games, or Kobe Bryant as an individual player. The league has obviously worked very hard to keep Bryant in our face through the media, which I've always thought was a bad idea, but it would be fascinating to hear more spceifics from Donaghy on the Lakers.
My point is, the day Shaquille was traded, the Lakers were no longer relevant, and weren't for 3.5 years. Then with one trade, they became the best team in the league. How does that happen other than league interference? I think it's clear that it doesn't happen unless the league makes it happen. The league had to get something done in order to keep Bryant in LA. He might of bolted for Chicago otherwise. So witht he Gasol trade, they accomplished two major goals - keeping Bryant in LA, and making the Lakers a finals team again. For Stern, the East has either Boston, LeBron, or Dwight Hoawrd in the Finals, but the West was in danger of having small market teams like the Spurs back in the Finals unless Stern did something about it. But trading Kwame Brown for Gasol? I mean, if you're going to cheat, at least make it look less obvious. Why there wasn't a congressional inquiry into this is beyond me.
I'd also like to hear more specifics from him on the Spurs, specifically the Derek Fisher shot being allowed to count, which I've always thought was the most blatant piece of manipulation in the history of the NBA. I think it's incredible that we have won four les during an obvious period of league manipulation. I remember the days when the Spurs would routinely lose double digit leads to the Lakers in the 4th quarter of playoff games. With all the calls Bryant got, we'd have to be up by 16-18 points going into the 4th to even have a shot at winning the game, especially in 2001 and 2002, and even 2003. Thus, the Spurs had to work that much harder and be that much better in order to win. That's why I think we're a dynasty -- we got zero help, whereas teams like LA got nothing but help.
Case in point, the Lakers/Kings Game was in 2002. The Fisher shot was in 2004. The Fisher non-foul call on Brent Barry was in 2008.
Anyway, Galileo -- sorry about the long email, but it's great news that you were able to hook up with Donaghy.
Don't use logic, bb, it confuses the masses!
Actually, he's a convicted felon, cheat and liar, but now he's suddenly a completely credible source? How gullible are you?
Maybe you have different standards than I, but I'd be reticent to jump on his bandwagon.
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