Are we really a better team without TP??

[J_Paco]

The answer is, NO!! Did you not see George Hill lay a massive egg last night? He's not ready at all to take over the PG duties on any team.

[romain.star]

at least try to be consistent when bashing TP...

The Spurs win 3 or 4 games in a row without TP and everybody realize that the team had no chemistry at all when T "ballhog" P was runing the show and that GHill needs to take the reins

The Spurs lose to the Magic and all of a sudden, the bashing stops... there are even some spurs fans who dare to say that TP is missed !!!

Anyway, the real problem is the frontcourt. A 33 years old TD won't make it by himself. To compete against top teams, the Spurs need one second skilled big man (Ian) full of energy (Ian) with fresh legs (Ian)

[Ibanezsr]

The answer is, NO!! Did you not see George Hill lay a massive egg last night? He's not ready at all to take over the PG duties on any team.

Like TP has never egged it before right? How many times did we watch him choke up in the playoffs in his early years? What does parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer? Dude can't play defense and doesn't know how to share. Hill can spread the floor better with his outside shooting and his defense is stellar. If SA could trade TP for a good big man like Bosh or Bynum the team would be more of a championship contender next yr than they would if TP was kept.

[smeagol]

A thread that bashes Tony is full of Frenchies defending him.

A thread that bashes Manu is full of Argies defending him.

It never fails . . .

[kace]

A thread that bashes Tony is full of Frenchies defending him.

A thread that bashes Manu is full of Argies defending him.

It never fails . . .

a thread that bashes TP is full of Argies killing him or approving.
a thread that bashes manu is free from frenchies bashing him, when they're not even defending him.

that's a difference.

anyway, only two legit teams since he left, two losses. one against the cavs without their 2/3 best players, the other with a rout. it never fails.....

[romain.star]

A thread that bashes Tony is full of Frenchies defending him.

A thread that bashes Manu is full of Argies defending him.

It never fails . . .

Mhhhh.... not quite

As for me, I really don't care about nationalities. Parker is only my third favorite player behind Duncan and Manu (and used to be forth when Bowen was there).

I just think Parker is being treated unfairly by many fans. One or two bad game (while being injured all season long), and you will see 2 or 3 "Trade Parker ass" thread... Like Duncan and Manu, he is a spurs legend who heavily contributed to 3 rings and has earned the right to be respected by the fans. Nothing more, nothing less...

And be sure I'll be right there when Manu gets the same treatment

[Bartleby]

Anyway, the real problem is the frontcourt. A 33 years old TD won't make it by himself. To compete against top teams, the Spurs need one second skilled big man (Ian) full of energy (Ian) with fresh legs (Ian)

I wouldn't really call Ian "skilled" (yet).

[romain.star]

I wouldn't really call Ian "skilled" (yet).

well... let's say Ian got some talent that needs time (not garbage time Pop) to develop but from what i've seen, he'll be a solid NBA player... in SA or elsewhere

[spurtech09]

nope!!!!!!!!!!!

[Pauleta14]

Like TP has never egged it before right? How many times did we watch him choke up in the playoffs in his early years? What does parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer? Dude can't play defense and doesn't know how to share. Hill can spread the floor better with his outside shooting and his defense is stellar. If SA could trade TP for a good big man like Bosh or Bynum the team would be more of a championship contender next yr than they would if TP was kept.

GTFO !!!

You don't know about BB or Spurs history!

Your arguments are so absurd, that it's either due to a lack of knowledge/understanding , or just PURE HATE ...

PS/ Believe me or not, I don't care, but I'm not defending him because I'm french, I'd do the same for ANY of our players treated unfairly...

[jjktkk]

Like TP has never egged it before right? How many times did we watch him choke up in the playoffs in his early years? What does parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer? Dude can't play defense and doesn't know how to share. Hill can spread the floor better with his outside shooting and his defense is stellar. If SA could trade TP for a good big man like Bosh or Bynum the team would be more of a championship contender next yr than they would if TP was kept.

Your photo ID is right in line with your post here. You asked "What does Parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer"? The answer is helping the Spurs win 3 championships in 03, 05, and 07. Being selected as a NBA All Star 3 times. And being selected as the 07 NBA Finals MVP. I guess you were one of the 0.05% of Spurs fans who was disappointed when Pop let go of a couple of potential Parker replacements in Darius Washington and Blake Ahearn.

[Ibanezsr]

GTFO !!!

You don't know about BB or Spurs history!

Your arguments are so absurd, that it's either due to a lack of knowledge/understanding , or just PURE HATE ...

PS/ Believe me or not, I don't care, but I'm not defending him because I'm french, I'd do the same for ANY of our players treated unfairly...

Go back and watch his early playoff games and see how many times Parker got pulled... Speedy Claxton saved the day.. been a fan since 1989... long before TP came along.. I don't hate Parker at all though.. and could care less if he is French. Just think he isn't the greatest fit for SA at this point in time.. i think it's funny that you think I don't know about BB or Spurs history just because I said Parker choked in his early days.. the stats don't lie... either does the pine TP got back in the day for all his ups in clutch playoff games..

[Ibanezsr]

Your photo ID is right in line with your post here. You asked "What does Parker do besides penetrate, get to the rim or pop a 15-20 footer"? The answer is helping the Spurs win 3 championships in 03, 05, and 07. Being selected as a NBA All Star 3 times. And being selected as the 07 NBA Finals MVP. I guess you were one of the 0.05% of Spurs fans who was disappointed when Pop let go of a couple of potential Parker replacements in Darius Washington and Blake Ahearn.

Steve Kerr helped SA win a championship too... so did Elson and Rasho.. you gonna toot their horns too? I'm not saying Parker sucks but I am saying that he can be replaced... He's a tad overrated in my book. Don't forget TP was playing with TD and Gino... My re ed cousin that limps and can't count past 10 could have won the '07 Finals MVP against that ty Cavs team.

[anakha]

I'm not saying Parker sucks

My re ed cousin that limps and can't count past 10 could have won the '07 Finals MVP against that ty Cavs team.

[Pauleta14]

Go back and watch his early playoff games and see how many times Parker got pulled... Speedy Claxton saved the day.. been a fan since 1989... long before TP came along.. I don't hate Parker at all though.. and could care less if he is French. Just think he isn't the greatest fit for SA at this point in time.. i think it's funny that you think I don't know about BB or Spurs history just because I said Parker choked in his early days.. the stats don't lie... either does the pine TP got back in the day for all his ups in clutch playoff games..

So what? a 21 YO TP playing against the best PG of that time?
Remember the finals last 6 games? TP was almost MVP after 3 games...
Yes he sucked the last 2 games (specialy the last quarters of the last 2 games), the nets adapted their game and he was often dble teamed!!
Speedey claxton was decent all year but no better that Tony... Don't re-write history!!!!
It's easier to perform when you(re not expected! And Speedy did a nice job... but don't tell me he is anywhere near the level/talent of Tony! He didn't even have half of Tony's "production" ...
and a couple of midrange jumpsot at the end of an game, (even a huge one) doesn't make erase what Tony did the whole year and during the PO...
He wasn't an allstar at that time, but was a big part of the championship run and always the 2nd or 3rd best scorer of the team!!!!
You were probably one of those who asked to start Speedy, then Beno ahead of Tony!!!
What did they both do when they were given a starting job???

Did you at least watch the last season and saw what Tony is capable of when healthy?
This is the first year of his 9 years nba career that he doesn't add something to his game and is better than the previous year!
And we all know this is due to physcical/health pb... EVERY players know these/this kind of year(s)!

You say " the stats don't lie" and I agree!!!! you should whatch then again more closely!! It contradicts everything you say...

I could go on like that with each of your "arguments", but I don't have time and don't think you're worth spending more time answering.
You're the proof that following the spurs since 20 years isn't any "warranty" of understanding anything better than the "newcomers"...
Except if you're just blinded by your emotions/feelings towards Tony.
that the only logical reason I can find

[bigzak25]

if he's not racing, he's not worth a on the court.

upon his return, if he's got his wheels back, he'd be better to lead the 2nd unit and pop can use his injury as an excuse to bring him off the bench along with the fact that it would disrupt any chemistry the current starting 5 has going into the playoffs...

but i've lost faith in pop, so i'm not holding my breath.

[Pauleta14]

if he's not racing, he's not worth a on the court.

upon his return, if he's got his wheels back, he'd be better to lead the 2nd unit and pop can use his injury as an excuse to bring him off the bench along with the fact that it would disrupt any chemistry the current starting 5 has going into the playoffs...

but i've lost faith in pop, so i'm not holding my breath.

Do you really think you know better than Pop what's best for the team?
Would you do a better job than him if you were given the oportunity?

[bigzak25]

Do you really think you know better than Pop what's best for the team?
Would you do a better job than him if you were given the oportunity?

so you don't want fans to give their opinions on the team on this website?

you want the coach to be above reproach?

if so, you're in the wrong place.


i'm saying Pop's decisions over the past couple years leave a lot to be desired. you think i'm the lone wolf on this or something?

every spurs fan sees it. bonner? wtf? sitting mason? wtf? dumping ratliff? wtf? alienating bruce? wtf?

somewhere along the line, Pop either forgot that big men win championships or he stopped caring.

Larry Brown, Pop's mentor, didn't forget.

Spurs got lucky that Blair was sitting there in the 2nd round or could you imagine how ed this team would be right now?


i'm saying i don't trust his motivations anymore.

i'm saying Pop should put tony's ass on the bench and see if he is half the team player manu is.

i'm saying a broken tp, a tp without his legs under him, is not worth a damn.

i'm saying tp should be used in whatever way accentuates his strengths, i.e. fastbreak, straight to the cup offense, (which, imo, would be of more use to the team if he is doing that with the second unit) and hides his weaknesses, which would hypothetically be accomplished if he is guarding a second tier pg.

so what's your take?

[ohmwrecker]

The short answer is obviously, no. The Spurs are in no way, shape or form a better team without Parker. Any argument otherwise is patently ridiculous. Anyone who says Parker's only strength is driving to the hoop for layups is not very astute and should be fervently ignored. Parker is a hard worker and has improved and added to his natural skills every year. He had a career year last year and, if not for a litany of injuries, probably would have continued to rise this year. You can place blame on Parker and Ginobili for playing all summer if you want, but nobody forced the Spurs to draft these guys, and it that same loyalty and work ethic that made these players essential to the Spurs le runs. You can keep your sour grapes, I'll take the trophies.

[smeagol]

a thread that bashes manu is free from frenchies bashing him, when they're not even defending him.

I've seen you diss Manu . . .

[Obstructed_View]

Go back and watch his early playoff games and see how many times Parker got pulled... Speedy Claxton saved the day.. been a fan since 1989... long before TP came along.. I don't hate Parker at all though.. and could care less if he is French. Just think he isn't the greatest fit for SA at this point in time.. i think it's funny that you think I don't know about BB or Spurs history just because I said Parker choked in his early days.. the stats don't lie... either does the pine TP got back in the day for all his ups in clutch playoff games..

How many times did Parker get pulled? How many times did Speedy "save the day"?

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs have only played two "good" teams with Parker out...

They lost to a Cleveland team without their four best players, and got blown out by Orlando.

So I don't know why you'd want to bring TP off the bench in his return. This starting unit right now has good "chemistry" to beat bad teams. There aren't any bad teams in the playoffs.

[smeagol]

The Spurs have only played two "good" teams with Parker out...

They lost to a Cleveland team without their four best players, and got blown out by Orlando.

So I don't know why you'd want to bring TP off the bench in his return. This starting unit right now has good "chemistry" to beat bad teams. There aren't any bad teams in the playoffs.

Difficult to debate with that kind of logic. It goes without saying that I agree with you. As soon as TP is healthy, he will start.

The question is who goes back to the bench? Manu would be the number one choice, but what if he continues playing at a very high level?

I think this is a legit question . . .

[Ibanezsr]

So what? a 21 YO TP playing against the best PG of that time?
Remember the finals last 6 games? TP was almost MVP after 3 games...
Yes he sucked the last 2 games (specialy the last quarters of the last 2 games), the nets adapted their game and he was often dble teamed!!
Speedey claxton was decent all year but no better that Tony... Don't re-write history!!!!
It's easier to perform when you(re not expected! And Speedy did a nice job... but don't tell me he is anywhere near the level/talent of Tony! He didn't even have half of Tony's "production" ...
and a couple of midrange jumpsot at the end of an game, (even a huge one) doesn't make erase what Tony did the whole year and during the PO...
He wasn't an allstar at that time, but was a big part of the championship run and always the 2nd or 3rd best scorer of the team!!!!
You were probably one of those who asked to start Speedy, then Beno ahead of Tony!!!
What did they both do when they were given a starting job???

Did you at least watch the last season and saw what Tony is capable of when healthy?
This is the first year of his 9 years nba career that he doesn't add something to his game and is better than the previous year!
And we all know this is due to physcical/health pb... EVERY players know these/this kind of year(s)!

You say " the stats don't lie" and I agree!!!! you should whatch then again more closely!! It contradicts everything you say...

I could go on like that with each of your "arguments", but I don't have time and don't think you're worth spending more time answering.
You're the proof that following the spurs since 20 years isn't any "warranty" of understanding anything better than the "newcomers"...
Except if you're just blinded by your emotions/feelings towards Tony.
that the only logical reason I can find

Take your tampon out and chillax. Again I am not stating Parker sucks. This whole thing started because someone commented on how George Hill laid an egg the other night and is not ready to handle the PG position. All I said was that Parker laid eggs in his early playoffs too. I think Hill has the ability to be an all around better player than TP because he has better outside shooting and plays better defense. He can spread the floor better which bodes well for players like Gino and Jefferson. In no way do I think Spurs would be better THIS YEAR without Parker but I do think that they would be better next yr if they let Hill, Gino and another back up PG (signing) and traded Parker for a legit big man like Bosh or Bynum... And from reading this board I am not the only one that thinks that. Your man love for TP is beyond frightening...

And those that state Parker had a career yr last yr... Gino was hurt and Duncan sucked half the yr... Of course he had a career yr.. The rest of the team sucked so Parker had all the shots...

[Pauleta14]

so you don't want fans to give their opinions on the team on this website?

you want the coach to be above reproach?

if so, you're in the wrong place.


i'm saying Pop's decisions over the past couple years leave a lot to be desired. you think i'm the lone wolf on this or something?

every spurs fan sees it. bonner? wtf? sitting mason? wtf? dumping ratliff? wtf? alienating bruce? wtf?

somewhere along the line, Pop either forgot that big men win championships or he stopped caring.

Larry Brown, Pop's mentor, didn't forget.

Spurs got lucky that Blair was sitting there in the 2nd round or could you imagine how ed this team would be right now?


i'm saying i don't trust his motivations anymore.

i'm saying Pop should put tony's ass on the bench and see if he is half the team player manu is.

i'm saying a broken tp, a tp without his legs under him, is not worth a damn.

i'm saying tp should be used in whatever way accentuates his strengths, i.e. fastbreak, straight to the cup offense, (which, imo, would be of more use to the team if he is doing that with the second unit) and hides his weaknesses, which would hypothetically be accomplished if he is guarding a second tier pg.

so what's your take?

First of all, I agree with you, even if it's a no brainer, on the fact that we can discus about everything and everybody has the right to have an opinion...
I just don't understand the lack of respect that some of you have for Pop.
I don't agree/understand many of his decisions too, I can get crazy sometimes during games too! (small ball... )
But with retrospect, many of his decisions happened to be "explainable", if not understandable!!
For instance, concerning Theo Ratliff, the FO maybe wasn't sure of Blair's 1st year production/eclosion! So it was a good decision to take him as it was to release him, for progression of Blair (playing time) as well as Theo's "sake" because he wanted more playing time...
"Sitting Masson"? He is a "role player" and his "role" is to knock down 3s... whitch he didn't (for a long period), is it Pop's fault?
Any coach has the right in this situation to sit his player! At some point, you have to look at other options...

We all know Pop is "different" than the common coach, he has learned by himself as well as next to coaches that have opposite philosophies (Nelson brown) and he has "particular" habbits like trying crazy stuff during games...
But with that kind of person, you get the wrost AND the best!!
Look at what he has done (4 RINGS!!!) and what HE IS DOING GOOD TOO! like with Hill and Blair he is preparing the futur...
Who could have expect that RJ would be such a disapointment?
Who could have expect Tony to be THAT "cursed" this year?
The last two points are enough to change RADICALY our season AND your opinion of Pop!!!!

And once again, I'm not critisizing the fact that you give your opinion!
I'm just saying let's have some "stand back" discusions, things are never "black or white", you know what I mean...

And finaly, concerning Tony, if you think that he is only good at "fast breaks" and "straight to the cup offense"................