Waterloo

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Absolutely right...I don't know about this. I worked for a PI lawyer for 4 years, I worked for a bill collector whose accounts were primarily individuals that were supposed to be covered by medicaid, medicare and champus. I work with the guy who was one of the lead investigators on the case I mentioned of the Psychiatrist defrauding medicaid/medicare out of 600k. Haven't got a ing clue how it works. You just nailed me.

I guess you're right. Our government is totally incorrupt and our systems completely proofed from indivuals seeking to exploit the funding for our various government opped health care systems. And most importantly, our politicians are concerned not with re-election and political grandstanding, achieving status, power, and wealth, not to mention not serving the money that put them in office, but rather simply helping uninsured Americans. Especially the Democrats.

I mean those existing government programs kick serious ing ass, are about as efficient as it's humanly possible to be, and do exactly what they are supposed to do as the passing of this new legislation proves.

And I think if anyone can agree that our goverment pretty much is corruption proof it should be Democrats...I mean hey, you guys sure taught that bas Bush a lesson. In a lesser government that would have never been possible.

And it's only those goddamned Republicans keeping this country from being the Utopia Obama knows it can be.


You are right...I have been naive. I want to thank you and your non-contradictory non-circular arguments for opening my eyes to the reality of the world. Thank you fuzzy


This is truly a magnificient piece o legislation. I look at it and I marvel at the genius, care and thought put into this. Seldom have our politicians served us, the people, so well.

You said the PI claims would no longer be paid out. You are wrong because currently people have insurance, get hit and then the casualty insurer pays the health insurer any money its paid out. Like I said its indemnity; and I dont give a who you are working for you dont know about it.

I never made a circular argument and again, you obviously don't know what one is. The rest of your strawmen are meaningless. Bluster is tiresome.

I don't jump at ghosts anymore than I do at evil governments and corporate overlords. Those are just words with no meaning. I am interested in discussing specifics, not the boogeyman.

I am interested in things in how the oversight of rate control is going to be handled and by whom. I am interested in how much actuarial information the insurers have to provide etc.

All youre babbling about is dualistic political spin and buzzwords. That doesnt mean very much to me.

[whottt]

You said the PI claims would no longer be paid out. You are wrong because currently people have insurance, get hit and then the casualty insurer pays the health insurer any money its paid out. Like I said its indemnity; and I dont give a who you are working for you dont know about it.

I never made a circular argument and again, you obviously don't know what one is. The rest of your strawmen are meaningless. Bluster is tiresome.

I don't jump at ghosts anymore than I do at evil governments and corporate overlords. Those are just words with no meaning. I am interested in discussing specifics, not the boogeyman.

I am interested in things in how the oversight of rate control is going to be handled and by whom. I am interested in how much actuarial information the insurers have to provide etc.

All youre babbling about is dualistic political spin and buzzwords. That doesnt mean very much to me.

Um, yeah, I know the PI claims will still be paid out. It was ng sarcasm. Every PI lawyer I have ever known is a yellow dog Democrat.

If you know of one that isn't...I would sincerely like to meet him.

You need to get out more often...meet more poeople.

[Winehole23]

So youre advocating no compulsion to purchase auto insurance?

I advocate personal responsibility for myself, but if I had the opportunity to do it, I'd sure vote for no compulsion to purchase auto insurance. The penalties alone breed a permanent subclass of onerously feed and fined offenders who become more or less permanent non-participants.

I am insured now, but one time when I wasn't, and it was my fault, I surrendered my entire paycheck to pay for the minor damage I did to an early 70's Oldsmobile Cutlass Vista Cruiser.



The whole rear quarter panel had to be replaced, because I put a fist sized dent in it. Damn collectible cars.

[whottt]

Anyway fuzzy, I don't give a how smart you think you are, I agree with Marcus Bryant on very little...but at least he does know there has been a total corporate takeover of our government, which makes him smarter than you and every one else that thinks this health care bill is something benevolent.

Yeah yeah...tort reform. Don't hold your breath on that when the party of the guys who become wealthy because of a lack of that very thing are controlling our government.

You see, your knowledge of the insurance industry means jack ...what you need a better grasp of is the legal profession. You'll be much smarter once that happens...and the fact you don't think it matters much in this dicussion says more about your intelligence than any amount of words you want to type in any way you can type them.

[whottt]

I advocate personal responsibility for myself, but if I had the opportunity to do it, I'd sure vote for no compulsion to purchase auto insurance. The penalties alone breed a permanent subclass of onerously feed and fined offenders who become more or less permanent non-participants.

I am insured now, but one time when I wasn't, and it was my fault, I surrendered my entire paycheck to pay for the minor damage I did to an early 70's Oldsmobile Cutlass Vista Cruiser.



The whole rear quarter panel had to be replaced, because I put a fist sized dent in it.

I say we make the left most lane for the insured and the other lanes for the uninsured. All single lane roads belong to the uninsured. If you have a wreck in the uninsured lanes you are ed where collecting from the other party is concerned whether you are insured or not...if you are uninsured and you have a wreck in the insured lanes, you are equally ed and at the mercy of the lawyers etc.

I realize that sounds ridiculous, but it would solve a of a lot more problems than mandatory auto insurance.

[Winehole23]

(urp)

[whottt]

Just tell me honestly...if such a system were to come about, do you think there would be more insured people or more uninsured?

Will of the people indeed.

[Winehole23]

(scratches neck)

[whottt]

Ok c'mon...pretend I'm spurms

[Winehole23]

I'm not so keen on designated lanes for the uninsured and anyway it is probably unenforceable. A+ awarded for originality though.

[whottt]

Ok well first of all by single lanes belong to the uninsured I mean...if you have a wreck tough.

I suppose it could dependent on the speed limit for single lanes...the speed limit determining whether it is governed by the rules of liability or not.

But were such a thing to happen, do you think more people would go uninsured, or insured?

That was the question. I suspect the overhwhelming majority of the country would elect to be uninsured and be less enamored with expensive vehicles.

I don't think there's a doubt about it. It's in our very nature to be revulsed by parasitic en ies and that is exactly what insurance companies are. And the worst thing about them is that inflated prices on the properties they insure work to their direct benefit and serve to make them a necessity, and in our reality that means mandatory. These industries and those that work within them also benefit by inflated prices. Lawyers benefit from them, people seeking to defraud the system benefit from them.

The only people that don't benefit are those that aren't trying to get richer.

[Winehole23]

I was briefly intrigued by your idea of dedicating all *single lane roads* to the uninsured, but then I realized I have no idea what *single lane roads* are.

Little help?

[Winehole23]

Do you mean two-lane blacktops?

[Winehole23]

[whottt]

I was briefly intrigued by your idea of dedicating all *single lane roads* to the uninsured, but then I realized I have no idea what *single lane roads* are.

Little help?

Any road that doesn't have enough lanes for both an insured lane and an uninsured one. One lane road, 2 lane road. Dirt road. The logic behind goverining them with the rules of the uninsured being that the smaller the road, the less people traveling on it, fewer wrecks, fewer severe wrecks.

Anyway, the biggest to this would not be enforcing it...I mean we generally know to stay off the left side of the road on a 2 lane road...the biggest would be turnlanes and intersections. We would probably have to give those to the uninsured too....because if we didn't the insured could seriously uninsured people over.

Basically..my idea is to make insurance more of a luxury item than driving, as it should be

[boutons_deux]

"you are required to transfer a significant amount of personal funds"

This is already the case, only it's hidden as employer provided insurance, $13K+/year to for-profit insurers for a family of four, salary denied to the employee, skimmed off to the corps. The company claims it as business expense, and employee pays no tax on the benefit in kind.

[Winehole23]

But were such a thing to happen, do you think more people would go uninsured, or insured?

You mean if we had any choice. I suppose people could opt out en masse, like you have recently suggested, but this result is compromised by adherence to the "reality principle" and more generally to simple expedience.

I suspect the overwhelming majority of the country would elect to be uninsured...

Agree 100%

...and be less enamored with expensive vehicles.

Disagree 100%. That ship already sailed.

I don't think there's a doubt about it. It's in our very nature to be revulsed by parasitic en ies and that is exactly what insurance companies are. And the worst thing about them is that inflated prices on the properties they insure work to their direct benefit and serve to make them a necessity, and in our reality that means mandatory. These industries and those that work within them also benefit by inflated prices. Lawyers benefit from them, people seeking to defraud the system benefit from them.

For purposes of trade and estate-management, some insurance is needful, but what you're saying is true also.

The only people that don't benefit are those that aren't trying to get richer.

Jesus said the first shall be last and the last shall be first. But I don't think he meant in this world.

[boutons_deux]

"make insurance more of a luxury item"

It's already priced like a luxury item. $1200/month for family of four, now with increasing co-pays and deductibles.

In your ed scheme, anybody who bought insurance would be a sucker because they could "Just Go To The Emergency Room(c)" and get treated for free at taxpayer-financed hospitals and clinics.

[Winehole23]

whottt's talking about auto-insurance, b_d.

[Winehole23]

Any road that doesn't have enough lanes for both an insured lane and an uninsured one. One lane road, 2 lane road. Dirt road. The logic behind goverining them with the rules of the uninsured being that the smaller the road, the less people traveling on it, fewer wrecks, fewer severe wrecks.

Tough luck for country folks, eh?

[whottt]

You mean if we had any choice. I suppose people could opt out en masse, like you have recently suggested, but this result is compromised by adherence to the "reality principle" and more generally to simple expedience.

I don't consider insurance to be very real, at least on the payoff end. It's very ethereal and dependent entirely on whether or not the insurance company says it exists. The most real thing about it is the monthly payment.

My reality is that I don't like paying for it, at all.

Disagree 100%. That ship already sailed.
For purposes of trade and estate-management, some insurance is needful, but what you're saying is true also.

Only because real estate is so expensive. It's basically a charm to ward off bad luck.

Jesus said the first shall be last and the last shall be first. But I don't think he meant in this world.

I suspect Jesus would be getting on the Doctors asses for putting the ac ulation of wealth over the alleviating of suffering.

[whottt]

Tough luck for country folks, eh?

I am country folk. The personal accountability principle is what they like...on both sides. With country folk insurance (and government) is really not needed. They're kinda socialist like that

[Winehole23]

They're kinda socialist like that

Iowa and Kansas believe you. Cotton and sugar farmers do too.

[Winehole23]

I don't consider insurance to be very real, at least on the payoff end. It's very ethereal and dependent entirely on whether or not the insurance company says it exists. The most real thing about it is the monthly payment.

My reality is that I don't like paying for it, at all.

You won't get any argument from me on this.

[scott]

meh.