MJ's 91 Bulls vs Lebron's 09-10 Cavs in a 7 game series

[Killakobe81]

Delonte West is not the Cavs' best defender, not even their best perimeter defender. LeBron is the Cavs best defender. And while Delonte West is a pretty good defender, it's well do ented that he'll struggle against bigger, more physical guards. The Cavs have two other guys that may or may not be better overall defenders but match-up better against bigger guards in Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon. Additionally, they have been playing Jawad Williams at the 2-guard some as well and he's tall and long for a guard with good mobility.

The Cavs actually have a lot of defensive options to throw at Jordan and Pippen. The Cavs also have Shaq when healthy, albeit older and nowhere near as dominant as he used to be. He can still be a mismatch and a problem, and sometimes games can be decided by one or two possessions. I think healthy, Shaq would be a guy that would help these Cavs against those Bulls.

On paper, there's actually something to the comparison. But you could do the same with the Lakers against those Bulls. On paper, it looks like a fairly even match-up. But as cliche as it is, the games aren't played on paper. There was something about those Jordan Bulls teams that went beyond talent. There were arguably more talented teams they faced (although I do argue that Jordan's compe ion wasn't all that great during his run, especially compared to the 80s championship compe ion of the Lakers, Celtics, Sixers, Rockets) at least when it came down to depth and balance of talent. After Jordan and Pippen, the talent level dropped significantly. But those role players on those Bulls teams knew their role and limitations almost perfectly and rarely if ever went beyond them. You look at coaching and those Bulls teams were stronger, more efficient, and executed better at both ends of the floor. And the ultimate trump card of Jordan's will to win. It trumps anything that can be put on paper. As talented as LeBron is, and you could argue he's bigger, stronger, faster than Jordan, there's only little evidence that shows LeBron can will his team to a championship. His game 5 in the 2007 ECF against the Pistons 25 straight point barrage is an example of him willing his team to win. But can he do it consistently and enough times and against the best teams in the league for his team to win a championship? It's an intangible that can't be quantified or qualified and for the purposes of this comparison with the 91 Bulls is probably the distinction that until proven will give the edge to the 91 Bulls.

Lebron is NOT a great perimeter defender. When it comes to moving his feet staying in front of a quality offensive player Lebron is STILL suspect. He has improved but i still think west is better. PErimeter means staying in front of quick point guards as well as battling two guards or even the smaller perimeter forwards. when healthy and focused Delonte is better than Lebron at those things. If it's a big 2 or 3 i would take lebron because he has IMPROVEd his perimeter defense and his size prevents post-ups. But Lebron's value on defense is more as a help defender and rebounder ...

i do agree with you Jamstone that Lebron is bigger, faster and stronger than jordan. And as you pointed in that ECF he did some truly AMAZING things ...
Even though you could argue thatthe Cavs have a good and in some ways deeper roster I like the Bulls top 3 better, their coaching is better, and even though I THINK Lebron has the POTENTIAL to SOMEDAY be better than MJ
I would give MJ and his Bulls the edge and i think they win in 5 or 6 games.

you make some good points Jamstone. the mid 90's sucked, shaq could have moments and the Cavs have a talented roster that Powe is even adding to.


But the 91 bulls would have tapped that ass ...

[ChrisRichards]

Guys. No one is stopping Lebron from Chicago. Scottie Pippen and his skinny 220 lb ass is not going to halt Lebron's frame, spped and power. Pippen could'nt even contain old man James Worthy and Magic Johnson. Sorry. Jordan would average a lot of points, that I dont doubt, but the Cavs have a deeper depth than Jordan's 91 Bulls.


Varejao, JJ Hickson and Antawn Jamison would give Horace Grant nightmares. No one can cover Mo Williams. Delonte West would take a poop on John Paxson's slow ass for 28 minutes.




Jordan and Lebron pretty much cancels out the Superstar power of this match up but good grief look at cleveland's edge in terms of depth.


Bulls

Pippen
Paxson
BJ
Horace Grant
the rest of the nobodies
Cartwright
Levingston
Stacey King
Will Perdue

Now look at the Cavs lineup after Lebron.


Shaq
Varejao (+/- monster)
Ilgauskas
Hickson
Jamison
Mo Williams
Delonte West
Anthony Parker
Jamario Moon



Shaq alone is the biggest Xfactor the Cavs have over Chicago. Bill Cartwright, Stacey King and Will Perdue is not going to cover this dude, then you have Ilgauskas coming off the bench? This is a mismatch made in for the Bulls.


And while I agree that KFC>Mike Brown, I still believe that its a players league, and ultimately the players on the court wins the game.

[MiamiHeat]

nobody on the cavs is stopping MJ, period. whereas, both MJ and pippen can help slow lebron down

and MJ always knew how to win, put his team in positions to succeed....and when the game winning moment came, MJ was ing god.

lebron is great, but there's no shot.

[ezau]

Lebron can't even beat an offense-less, one-dimensional Howard. How'd you expect him to beat Michael ing Jordan?

[TDMVPDPOY]

the bulls team looks good on paper

but they have no answer for lebron seriously, i dont give a if its pippen or jordan, we are talkin about lebron here who would just power his way into the lane at will...unless the bulls can stop him from penetrating and force up jumpshots instead....as for lebrons answer to jordan? just play normal defense and dont get into foul trouble....

then again snaq oatmeal atm is better than what the 91 bulls had...cartwright and wellington is no match for snaq oatmeal

[21_Blessings]

LeBron is the Cavs best defender.

Actually, Varejao is. Lebron's man defense is pretty mediocre.

[Chieflion]

This is pre-handcheck or the loose rules after 2005?

[Killakobe81]

The over estimation of Lebron's defense beacuse of some highlight blocks is pretty funny to me ...no doubt he is a good defender. But if Lebron was the BEST defender the Cavs had ...then they have no hopes of winning a le. I agree Verejao is the best POST defender. West is the best Perimeter guy (that actually gets significant mins. Parker Moon etc play spot mins.)

Lebron has gotten a lot better at jumpshooting as well but Lebron is not a great "shooter" by the same token Lebron has improved on defense but he is not a great defender ...but it's nitpicking...

What he is ... the most imposing physical force in the NBA due to his size/speed ratio, his high skill level for a man of his size, his court vision and when he decides to drive ... a FT drawing machine ...

But please don't overestimate his defense...

[lefty]

Interesting debate


It's nice to compare the benches, the scrubs, the role players......



But the Bulls still have MJ and KFC; to me, that's enough to beat Lebron and Mike Brown

[mogrovejo]

Varejao is the Cavs best defender, LeBron comes in second. And he does a great job staying in front of people.

No hand-checking would probably benefit the Bulls more than the Cavs, it would be tougher to stop Jordan's penetrations. But overall the current defensive rules would give the Cavs a huge advantage mainly because they're more used to them, especially to the use of zones and quasi-zones. If the Bulls didn't have time to prepare, they'd be creamed by the Cavs more complex and sophisticated defensive schemes.

I think the Cavs would put a fight but their second best player is Anderson Varejao and that would probably condemn them to a 5 games loss. Can't even think of another team who won the championship with a 2nd best player of similar quality. Ah, maybe the Rockets with Otis Thorpe.

Oh, and the "Cavs never won a le" argument is asinine. Make it between the 09/10 Cavs and the MJ's 90 Bull - this way you're comparing 2 teams that never won a le.

[mogrovejo]

Will it be 91 officiating or 09-10 "Put Lebron at the line every time he travels in the lane" refs?

They'd be playing Jordan. Do you think refs overprotecting superstars would function in favour of the Cavs?

[Killakobe81]

Varejao is the Cavs best defender, LeBron comes in second. And he does a great job staying in front of people.

No hand-checking would probably benefit the Bulls more than the Cavs, it would be tougher to stop Jordan's penetrations. But overall the current defensive rules would give the Cavs a huge advantage mainly because they're more used to them, especially to the use of zones and quasi-zones. If the Bulls didn't have time to prepare, they'd be creamed by the Cavs more complex and sophisticated defensive schemes.

I think the Cavs would put a fight but their second best player is Anderson Varejao and that would probably condemn them to a 5 games loss. Can't even think of another team who won the championship with a 2nd best player of similar quality. Ah, maybe the Rockets with Otis Thorpe.

Oh, and the "Cavs never won a le" argument is asinine. Make it between the 09/10 Cavs and the MJ's 90 Bull - this way you're comparing 2 teams that never won a le.

LOL mike brown and his staff are you serious?!

Also bulls had to to solve the bad boys Pistons defense and Chiuck Daly's staff (check the archives Daly had an AWESOME staff almost all of his asstants became head coaches) ...and the bulls figured THEM out ...

i am not one of hose that say the bulls are the greatest team ever ...i even feel the 72 win team is bit overrated ...but even still the 91 team would destroy this one you had a just entering his prime MJ with a young developing scotty and horace grant ...plus a clutch shooters like Paxson and hodges ...

I actually think due to age etc. that this Cavs team would do better against the 2nd 3 peat bulls (especially the last le)then the first one beacuse even though Scotty was a better player on those teams .. Mj has lost a step (though still the best) Rodman was overrated and by this time Lebron would be too much athletically for Pippen or MJ ...

the first 3 peat team of the bulls was the best because MJ was his best IMHO ...during that run he could hit the dagger jumper but he was STILL dunking on whole teams during that era ...by the second three tip it wa smore about the elbow jumpers and fadeaways ...

[JamStone]

LeBron's individual man defense improved dramatically last season. He's not Bruce Bowen, but saying it's mediocre is blatantly inaccurate. He doesn't play shut down defense all the time because that would require too much energy on his part and his team doesn't require him to do so. But he's a much better man defender than some of you give him credit for and a better defender than Delonte. People are actually overrating Delonte's defense. He's a good defender but also easily exploitable because when he defends big 2-guards, he's outmatched physically. His long arms and quickness get neutralized in the post against guys like Kobe, Joe Johnson, Roy. His inability to defend big perimeter players is one of the main reasons the Cavs lost in the ECF last year when he got exploited by Turkoglu of all people. And now we're talking about Jordanin this discussion? Come on. LeBron is a better defender because he can't be so easily exploited like Delonte can. And it's not just his highlight transition blocks that makes LeBron now a very good defender. Watch his defense in the fourth quarter of a close game and you'll see.

[ChrisRichards]

This is pre-handcheck or the loose rules after 2005?

Full handcheck rules. 90's era style.

[tlongII]

I'd go with the Cavs. The 91 Bulls would have lost to the 91 Blazers had they played them.

[ChrisRichards]

LeBron's individual man defense improved dramatically last season. He's not Bruce Bowen, but saying it's mediocre is blatantly inaccurate. He doesn't play shut down defense all the time because that would require too much energy on his part and his team doesn't require him to do so. But he's a much better man defender than some of you give him credit for and a better defender than Delonte. People are actually overrating Delonte's defense. He's a good defender but also easily exploitable because when he defends big 2-guards, he's outmatched physically. His long arms and quickness get neutralized in the post against guys like Kobe, Joe Johnson, Roy. His inability to defend big perimeter players is one of the main reasons the Cavs lost in the ECF last year when he got exploited by Turkoglu of all people. And now we're talking about Jordanin this discussion? Come on. LeBron is a better defender because he can't be so easily exploited like Delonte can. And it's not just his highlight transition blocks that makes LeBron now a very good defender. Watch his defense in the fourth quarter of a close game and you'll see.

Co-erect.

James is not the DPOY bas his ESPN highlight suggests, but he's come a long way and IMO a Top 3 defensive player among all perimeter players.

[ChrisRichards]

I'd go with the Cavs. The 91 Bulls would have lost to the 91 Blazers had they played them.

WTF?

Thanks for playing Tlong

[tlongII]

WTF?

Thanks for playing Tlong

The Blazers had the best record in the league in 90-91 and swept the Bulls in the regular season series. We got upset in the WCF by the Lakers.

[cheguevara]

Who takes this series? Am I crazy to believe that Lebron and his Cavaliers would beat Jordan's Bulls?

you are....

[Killakobe81]

Co-erect.

James is not the DPOY bas his ESPN highlight suggests, but he's come a long way and IMO a Top 3 defensive player among all perimeter players.

Top 3 in the NBA? really? I would take Westbrok, Sefolosha, Battier, Afflalo, Dontay jones all over Lebron as a perimeter defender ...

i am not saying Lebron when motivated isnt better than those guys much like kobe when focused Lebron is a top 3 guy ...(if i needed just 1 stop on teh perimeter I would want kobe, Lebron or wade) but let's be real. Lebron carries his team so rarely ever is called on or takes the chllenge of being a top 3 defender on a consistent basis. The guys i listed must play defense hard every night to just simply stay in the NBA ...

Again you guys slay me with the hyperbole. Lebron is magnificent enough as a player with his game, numbers and just physicality as specimen. No need to revise history or drink the kool-aid, in fact for whomever he plays next season it's a great thing he still has areas for improvement ...you (we) may seem him develop in to player that surpasses MJ ...that is still VERY possible.

and to be fair i dont believe MJ was the best defensive player in the NBa when he won the awrad either ...but i think at this point he still was a better defender than Lebron ...Mj was just like kobe he played it sometimes but still more than Kobe or Lebron IMHO ...

[Killakobe81]

one last thought if he really is a top 3 defender why not guard the best perimeter guy every night?
He has a lot more help on offense now ...why not prove it?
I am not criticizing him (lebron) cuz that is Mike b rown's decision but any smart coach knows that delonte's dedication on perimeter defense will be better than Lebron's because if West doesnt defend he wil sit ...for lebron he is playing either way ...

Even though i hate his articles most times Rosen wrote an article recently where he argued that Lebron was overrated on defense ...but im sure most here just fall in love with the Leblock so i guess running from behind and blocking a shot from behind says A LOT about perimeter defense? LOL

[pookenstein]

lol. Cavs haven't even won a ing championship. Unless they win a ring, they'll be nothing more than the Mavs-East

This.

Is this a joke? The Bulls were 6 time champs and the Cavs have never won anything.

And this.

Will it be 91 officiating or 09-10 "Put Lebron at the line every time he travels in the lane" refs?

Bulls either way. Don't even have to discuss the result with '91 officiating. Clear sweep.
09-10 officiating also a sweep, because all the calls James gets, Mike gets as well.

[PT Cruiser]

nobody on the cavs is stopping MJ, period. whereas, both MJ and pippen can help slow lebron down

and MJ always knew how to win, put his team in positions to succeed....and when the game winning moment came, MJ was ing god.

lebron is great, but there's no shot.

Hi buddy!

[ChrisRichards]

Hi buddy!

BEST ING TROLL EVER

[hitmanyr2k]

I would hope they would play with a 90's style of rules where defensive players were given a chance to play. I can only imagine how many free throws Jordan would get with today's rules. During the first 3 peat in a more physical era Jordan only averaged 7-8 free throws a game. Pippen averaged 5-6 free throws a game and that was at their athletic peak when they got to the rim a lot and barely launched any threes. The refs today hand out free throws like candy. Star players are averaging 9-10 free throws a game and I've seen my share of games this year where they've actually hit double-digit free throws in the first half alone. I find it ridiculous.