Bogans Record Against Winning Teams

[Doug Collins]

u can't measure wat da centerpiece do, y'all krazy!

[nkdlunch]

Okay... look at the guy's stats against .500 or better teams:

Date Opponent Result MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OFF DEF REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
Mar 24 vs. LAL L 83 - 92 17 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0
Mar 22 @ OKC W 99 - 96 7 0 - 2 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
Mar 21 @ ATL L 114 - 119 25 2 - 5 1 - 4 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 5
Mar 17 @ ORL L 84 - 110 15 0 - 2 0 - 1 2 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 2 2
Mar 08 @ CLE L 95 - 97 22 0 - 2 0 - 2 0 - 0 1 3 4 2 0 1 1 1 0
Mar 06 @ MEM W 102 - 92 15 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0
Feb 28 vs. PHX W 113 - 110 11 0 - 3 0 - 2 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Feb 26 @ HOU L 104 - 109 14 0 - 3 0 - 3 0 - 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3 4 0
Feb 24 vs. OKC W 95 - 87 24 3 - 6 2 - 4 1 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 9
Feb 11 @ DEN W 111 - 92 22 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 3 4 1 0 0 1 5 0
Feb 08 @ LAL L 89 - 101 12 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Feb 04 @ POR L 93 - 96 17 0 - 3 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 0

Total of 12 games

9 games with zero points.
12 games of less than 3 assists. 6 games with zero assists.

what about RJs?

[DPG21920]

what about RJs?

Much better than Bogans

[nkdlunch]

Much better than Bogans

and about $10,000,000 more expensive.

[DPG21920]

and about $10,000,000 more expensive.

So? What do I care how much he is paid? The fact is you asked a stupid question trying to make Bogans look better and then ended up looking rather foolish.

[nkdlunch]

So? What do I care how much he is paid? The fact is you asked a stupid question trying to make Bogans look better and then ended up looking rather foolish.

touchy about the subject aren't we? Fact is RJ was brought and is about the 2nd highest paid Spur to make BIG impact and he is having slightly better #s than Bogans, who gets paid peanuts.

[yavozerb]

So? What do I care how much he is paid? The fact is you asked a stupid question trying to make Bogans look better and then ended up looking rather foolish.

touchy about the subject aren't we? Fact is RJ was brought and is about the 2nd highest paid Spur to make BIG impact and he is having slightly better #s than Bogans, who gets paid peanuts.

I thinks its a great point made by nkd..Why would the guy (bogans) who gets paid the NBA minimum be blamed more for losses than the guy (RJ) who gets paid 12+mil? Why would you not set a higher standard for the player who gets paid more (alot more)? just wondering

[DPG21920]

Has nothing to do with blaming and everything to do with comparing the numbers. His first statement was not " look at rjs salary and production". He simply tried to compare their numbers as if they were close. Then he resorted to the money argument.

[nkdlunch]

I thinks its a great point made by nkd..Why would the guy (bogans) who gets paid the NBA minimum be blamed more for losses than the guy (RJ) who gets paid 12+mil? Why would you not set a higher standard for the player who gets paid more (alot more)? just wondering

Exactly

there is a Bogans thread after every game when there should be more RJ threads.

Let's look at the facts:
1) Bogans is a scrub and is being paid as a scrub
2) Bogans is not underachieving, he is actually meeting expectations, he is after all a scrub
3) if any blame for Bogans should be directed at Pop. Pop is the one giving this scrub minutes

not let's look at the RJ situation
1) RJ is the 2nd highest paid Spur (or close)
2) RJ's production is complete garbage and vs. the winning teams (which this thread is about) it's laughable
3) Pop is forced to play RJ because a) he is getting a ton of money and b) there is noone else
4) RJ is a $12 million ing piece of garbage, he not only underachieves, he often is lost, not concentrated and does not take critizism well from teamates (Hill last game for example)

now, which situation is more angering?????

[HarlemHeat37]

Everybody blames Jefferson all the time, are you serious?..

Jefferson is significantly overpaid, but he was once a good player and the Spurs are forced to play him and try to get him going for obvious reasons..he's obviously a flawed player, but he has talent..regardless, everybody s on him all the time(for good reason), so I don't know how you can say that..

Bogans is a scrub that wouldn't make the rotation, maybe not even the entire roster, of any other team in the NBA..he got less minutes last year on a Milwaukee team that was ravaged by injuries and didn't come close to the playoffs..there's absolutely no reason he should be playing 1 MPG, let alone 20..the reason everybody mentions him all the time is because he's probably the worst player on the Spurs' roster and the coach of this team has went as far as calling him the ing CENTERPIECE of the defense..shouldn't a Centerpiece have some expectations from the fans?..

[z0sa]

$10,000,000

IE Oberto, Bowen, Thomas

[Truckules]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

[z0sa]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

Yeah, it's not hard logic to understand.

[Warlord23]

At this point, teams facing the Spurs will gladly pay Bogans' salary for that game, if Pop guarantees to play him 20+ minutes.

Our only hope is that Bogans gets psychologically traumatized after getting faceraped by LeBron in the Cavs game and absconds for the rest of the season.

[nkdlunch]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

disagree 100%

and RJ doesn't hurt the team?

that play where he ran AWAY from an open Kobe at the 3pt line late in the game didn't hurt us right?

[in2deep]

goddam! why did you have to remind me of that play




that was the dumbest I have seen in a looooooooong time

[yavozerb]

I'd rather pay a guy $10 mil. and get barely anything out of him than pay a guy $800K and have him hurt the team.

The reason the 800K player is hurting the team is because the 10+ mil player is not pulling his weight. If the 10+ mil player would perform up to his standards (which is why he gets paid 10+ mil) then you probably would not even notice the 800K guy. duh..

[z0sa]

The reason the 800K player is hurting the team is because the 10+ mil player is not pulling his weight. If the 10+ mil player would perform up to his standards (which is why he gets paid 10+ mil) then you probably would not even notice the 800K guy. duh..

I think you're missing the vitally important point that Bogans isn't even worth $800,000 or any playing time over any other player on the roster, whatsoever.

Instead of changing the subject to RJ's deal (who was traded for garbage/retirees, remember?) , focus on Bogans' complete lack of production, skill, or a deal. And the fact he replaced Bowen, who no one would be complaining about even if he had the same exact same production.

Dude sucks, doesn't deserve 1 minute; RJ deserves every minute based on talent alone.

[easy7]

disagree 100%

and RJ doesn't hurt the team?

that play where he ran AWAY from an open Kobe at the 3pt line late in the game didn't hurt us right?

Not as much as letting a scrub bench Laker player score 3 in a row. Spurs lost by 9, not by 3.

[yavozerb]

I think you're missing the vitally important point that Bogans isn't even worth $800,000 or any playing time over any other player on the roster, whatsoever.

Instead of changing the subject to RJ's deal (who was traded for garbage/retirees, remember?) , focus on Bogans' complete lack of production, skill, or a deal. And the fact he replaced Bowen, who no one would be complaining about even if he had the same exact same production.

Dude sucks, doesn't deserve 1 minute; RJ deserves every minute based on talent alone.

I might be wrong but I thought this thread was started because bogans statline was so weak against the best teams in the NBA. All I was saying (since this was what the thread was started as) was to compare his statline with Rj's for those same games..I understand that Bogans is not the greatest option but to indicate that he is the primary reason for the losses in those games is dumb. Your best players(those with highest salaries) should play their best against the top teams, do you disagree with this?

[Shastafarian]

Here are Jefferson's numbers for those same games:


2/4 @Por L 96-93 34 3-8 .375 1-3 .333 1-2 .500 1 1 0 0 1 3 4 1 8
2/8 @Lal L 101-89 33 2-9 .222 0-1 .000 5-7 .714 0 0 0 4 0 2 2 2 9
2/11 @Den W 111-92 34 5-9 .556 2-4 .500 2-2 1.000 0 0 1 4 2 2 4 4 14
2/24 Okc W 95-87 32 3-9 .333 0-1 .000 3-5 .600 0 0 1 2 0 9 9 0 9
2/26 @Hou L 109-104 30 6-12 .500 0-2 .000 3-5 .600 1 2 2 1 1 6 7 2 15
2/28 Pho W 113-110 36 7-11 .636 2-3 .667 4-5 .800 0 1 1 2 2 2 4 5 20
3/6 @Mem W 102-92 35 7-11 .636 1-2 .500 3-3 1.000 1 1 0 1 0 6 6 1 18
3/8 @Cle L 97-95 28 1-3 .333 0-2 .000 1-2 .500 1 0 2 2 0 9 9 1 3
3/17 @Orl L 110-84 34 9-12 .750 0-1 .000 2-2 1.000 1 1 0 3 1 5 6 3 20
3/21 @Atl L 119-114 44 5-9 .556 0-1 .000 2-2 1.000 1 1 1 4 1 7 8 4 12
3/22 @Okc W 99-96 28 2-8 .250 0-2 .000 1-1 1.000 0 0 1 3 0 2 2 1 5
3/24 Lal L 92-83 28 3-9 .333 0-2 .000 0-1 .000 0 1 1 3 1 5 6 0 6

as compared to:

Mar 24 vs. LAL L 83 - 92 17 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0
Mar 22 @ OKC W 99 - 96 7 0 - 2 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0
Mar 21 @ ATL L 114 - 119 25 2 - 5 1 - 4 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 5
Mar 17 @ ORL L 84 - 110 15 0 - 2 0 - 1 2 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 2 2
Mar 08 @ CLE L 95 - 97 22 0 - 2 0 - 2 0 - 0 1 3 4 2 0 1 1 1 0
Mar 06 @ MEM W 102 - 92 15 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0
Feb 28 vs. PHX W 113 - 110 11 0 - 3 0 - 2 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
Feb 26 @ HOU L 104 - 109 14 0 - 3 0 - 3 0 - 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 3 4 0
Feb 24 vs. OKC W 95 - 87 24 3 - 6 2 - 4 1 - 2 0 1 1 0 1 0 1 1 9
Feb 11 @ DEN W 111 - 92 22 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 1 3 4 1 0 0 1 5 0
Feb 08 @ LAL L 89 - 101 12 0 - 1 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 0 0
Feb 04 @ POR L 93 - 96 17 0 - 3 0 - 1 0 - 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 2 0

[Warlord23]

I might be wrong but I thought this thread was started because bogans statline was so weak against the best teams in the NBA. All I was saying (since this was what the thread was started as) was to compare his statline with Rj's for those same games..I understand that Bogans is not the greatest option but to indicate that he is the primary reason for the losses in those games is dumb. Your best players(those with highest salaries) should play their best against the top teams, do you disagree with this?

I think z0sa's point is that while RJ's contribution with respect to salary may be very small, it is still non-negative. Whereas Bogans is the opponent team's MVP on a nightly basis and is a net negative for the Spurs.

[Obstructed_View]

touchy about the subject aren't we? Fact is RJ was brought and is about the 2nd highest paid Spur to make BIG impact and he is having slightly better #s than Bogans, who gets paid peanuts.

Actually, Roger Mason, for all his struggles, has slightly better numbers than Bogans. Bogans has slightly better numbers than guys who don't play.

[in2deep]

Actually, Roger Mason, for all his struggles, has slightly better numbers than Bogans. Bogans has slightly better numbers than guys who don't play.

Everyone knows Bogans is not there for the numbers. Unfortunately Bogans eventhough his D sucks, is still arguably a better defender than any guard but Hill.

[beachwood]

Its sad, I liked Bogans at the beginning of the season when he played SPOT duty every now and then and gave us some toughness. Now that he is the centerpiece of our rotation, I have never hated a Spur more than him. I get aggravated every game when I see him get off the bench and head to the scorers table. Atleast Vaughn could run a team, Udoka could rebound and shoot slightly better than Bogans, Finley could always shoot, Van Exel could bring the ball up, Sean Marks was enthusiastic. WTF DOES BOGANS DO?!?!?!?!?!? Pop's handling of him has messed with the heads of 3 wings who are far and away better than him. Finley left, Mason's confidence is shattered because he was taken out of the rotation for this piece of garbage, and Hairston is going to have to wait an extra year to get experience because he's stuck watching the Centerpiece of Suck play game after game at an exceedingly incompetent level.

The Centerpiece of Suck. I couldn't have said it any better.