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Cousy may be a stretch then.
I don't like it, but his top 10 list isn't bad at all.
Cousy may be a stretch then.
lol boston.....
NBA MAJOR ACCOMPLISHMENTS = Rings + MVPs + Finals MVPs + 1st Team, All-NBAs
Wilt Chamberlain 14
Bill Russell 19
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 24
Shaquille O'Neal 16
Michael Jordan 27
Magic Johnson 20
Larry Bird 17
Oscar Robertson 11
Jerry West 12
Bob Cousy 16
Duncan 18
Kobe Bryant 13
LeBron James 4
Julius Erving 7
Elgin Baylor 10
Hakeem Olajuwon 11
Charles Barkley 6
Karl Malone 13
Kevin McHale 4
Bob Pet 13
Moses Malone 9
John Stockton 2
Isiah Thomas 6
Another sportswriter from Boston? I'm just shocked, I tell you.
The Boston fans REALLY counted their chickens on getting Duncan in '97. Every great thing that's happened to San Antonio should have happend to the Celtics in their minds. Can you really blame them for trying to minimize what Duncan is just to save themselves from the pain?
his afraid duncan could eclipse any celtic player
Really? Manu and Parker weren't the top of anything in 2003. Not an all star credit to their names. Not anything. They were just good role players, but their skills didn't place them amongst the upper echelon of the league.
And the Spurs beat arguably more talented Mav and Laker teams in that le run.
That le, 2003, makes Duncan unique and gives him a claim to being one of the top 5 players in NBA history.
Speedy Claxton was arguably our most effective PG at times, esp. in the closeout game that year.
Please tell me you're a female. If not then you're the biggest flamer in the world based on that sig
Shaq is/was not better than Duncan. Kobe is overrated - 1 le as alpha dog. Barkley never played d- I could go on, but what is the point?
Guess you don't read the NBA forum much.
raising the bar one thread @ a time CHECK
this was a good read
I think Shaunessey had better lay off the Sam Adams and pull his head out of his ass.
This guy is a dumbass.
The author didn't even make real arguments other than list names and just saying that they're better simply because he listed them.
Horrible article that reeks of butthurt.
Does that guy play wormtail in the Harry Potter Movies?
Oh I know that. I am more aware of that than you are.
The reason you disagree with me is that the foundation of your argument lies on false information, double standards, seeing only what you want and ignoring what you don't.
Exactly like the guy who wrote this article.
In fact this probably the 200th time I've engaged in this basic debate, I can dismantle every facet of it you are going to make, probably before you even begin to make it...in fact I am going to do that beginning with this post.
And I can guarantee you will not be making this argument 2 or 3 years down the road.
In fact I am pretty sure you will never again attempt to claim McHale was in his prime for the Celtics les again after the very next statement I make.
Based on what? The Celtics won a le in 1981, which would be McHale's rookie season when he was younger(23) than Manu Ginobili was when Manu joined the Spurs(25), and less accomplished against NBA players.
1. Bird played and won championships with Parish and McHale all within their primes.
False information, and a double standard.
Say goodbye to McHale's prime...or say o to Manu's, your choice. And McHale came off the bench for that first le.
According your logic, his prime counts as 3 les since he was older than McHale and you consider McHale to be in his prime for all of the Celts les.2. Ginoboli is not a hall of fame player strictly on his NBA play, so I can't equate him to the cast Bird had. Parish and McHale played on several all star teams, and Ginoboli has only been on one. Plus, Ginoboli's prime only accounts for two les.
So was Kevin McHale. Much more of one than Manu was. More of one than Parker was.He was a rookie on the first
More in his prime than Kevin Mchale. And more accomplished.and not nearly the player he was in his prime.
McHale and Parish weren't HOF'ers on the first Celts championship either.Even if you claim he is a HOF player, in 2003 he was not and neither was any other player on that Spurs team. Bird can't claim a le like that.
But you know what...Manu looked to be more in his prime, than Duncan, Hakeem, or Shaq exactly 1 year later when he proceeded to kick the Dreams ass off the court in the 2004 Olympics.
I know Duncan's cast of LeBron, Melo, Amar'e, AI etc.(not to mention Pop as an assistant) weren't exactly in their primes...but then neither was Manu according to you.
And you know...
That's not Duncan carrying the team and kicking the out of the Celts and Cavs the past week...that is Manu, and he is well past his prime. He's also still only got 1 AS game to his credit.
Well, Parish and McHale aren't great players compared to Wilt and Kareem, your point?3. Parker is not a hall of fame player. Not by NBA standards. He's a Kevin Johnson. Or even a Dennis Johnson. A great point guard, yes. But not amongst the upper echelon of Stockton or Magic Johnson. And the only le that fell within his prime was the 2007 le. He's in his prime now.
Another double standard.
Nontheless, David Robinson was the guy guarding the player widely considered to be the best in the league at that time, Shaquille O'Neal.4. David Robinson had one le in mostly his prime, the 1999. The 2003 le was on the downside of David's career, especially considering he retired at the end of that season.
I know the guy guarding Shaq when the Spurs dethroened a 3 time defending champion(Shaq being the finals MVP on all 3) is rather an insignificant side note to you, but I promise you, there's a reason David was the main guy that did it and Duncan wasn't.
Really?5. Horry was a good role player on several championship teams. But even Horry will admit he'd have no les if he didn't have teammates like Hakeem, Tim, Kobe, and Shaq. He played on the best teams of the 90s.
Well, I look and see Horry has 5 championships without Hakeem, 5 without Duncan, 4 without Shaq, while they have 3 without him...combined.
Furthermore, on more than one occassion Robert Horry clearly was the reason his team won a game that decided a series...that decided a championship.
For instance in game 5 of the 2005 Finals, Duncan was missing FT's at the line and taking his team out of the game when he was basically grabbed by the scruff of his neck and carried to a win by Robert Horry.
No shame in it, because Robert Horry did the exact same things for Hakeem and Shaq(and Kobe) as well.
The shame lies in not giving Horry his due. How can you deny that game 5, easily one of the most clutch performances in NBA history, if not the most clutch.
You can surely say Robert Horry would not have won les, without them, except for the fact that he did...more than they did without him. Nearly twice as more.
And you can also say when the Lakers were winning 3 in a row, going through the Spurs for 2 of them...Robert Horry, not Shaq, was the guy guarding Duncan...much like he was one of the main defenders on David Robinson when Hakeem, who btw at the age of 34-35 was well past his prime, based on your standard for Davd being passed his, won his les with Horry.
Furthermore, Robert only won at most 3 les in the 90 while he unuestionably won 4 in the 00's...
And Robert did not play on the best teams in the 90's...that would be Michael Jordan's Bulls.
Fasle information.
However it is important to note, Michael Jordan and his Bulls teams are widely considered the greatest player and teams of all time...
6 championships.
Robrt Horry has 7, and not a one of them earned playing with Michael Jordan inspite of playing in the same era. And not a one of Michael's rings came against a team that had Horry on it. Meanwhile Horry does have rings against Hakeem and Duncan. More against them than they got going against his teams or a push at best.
The next closest compe or to Michael Jordan's Bulls in the 90's however is not a team...such as the Rockets, it's a player, Robert Horry. He won the second most rings behind Jordan and the Bulls in the 90's.
Not Shaq, not Hakeem, no the Lakers, not the Rockets, but Robert Horry.
Saying it is a fluke may work the first 5 times it happens, but after the 7th to continue to make the claim is obviously denial.
Especially since Hakeem, Shaq and Duncan all missed the playoffs or got eliminated in the first round, while Horry never did, and he was playing with one of them every year of his career.
There is absolutely no argument anyone can make that Horry did not improve his teams and contribute to them winning les. And those stars he played with owe him every bit as much as he owes them.
Oh and btw, Parker is a finals MVP, something McHale and Parish never were.
I realize you just want to see Duncan get his credit, as do I...but that's no reason to make false arguments, use double standards and throw players that won the Spurs les under the bus. That's doing to those players the same thing this author is doing to Duncan.
Last edited by whottt; 03-29-2010 at 04:30 PM.
You don't wanna argue with whottt. He came up with supermassive blackholes before anyone else did. And his professor thought him a dullard! rofl
I love ST when whottt goes ape on trolls and put biased s on their place
You guys need to excuse Shasta, being primarily a SR guy he's not used to debates based on facts and logic.
Facts like David Robinson guarding Shaq in 2003?
Series minute averages:
Shaq - 38.3
DRob - 21
Did Robinson guard Shaq when he was in? Yeah he did. But using the simple fact that he guarded him to say, "there's a reason David was the main guy that did it and Duncan wasn't" is ridiculous. Because Duncan did a great job on Shaq as well. What's interesting is that David had 30 minutes in game 1 and then 17-15-14 in the next three. If he was so crucial to stopping Shaq why didn't he play more in those games? He played 27 and 23 in games 5 and 6 so he couldn't have been in that much pain.
That le, 2003, is also going to go down as a team that had 4 HOF'ers on it, comparable to any team champion in NBA history outside of a couple Celtics and Lakers team and the 80's 76'ers champion, including a non-American Olympic Gold Medalist who beat a dream team in the only it has happened to date, 2 of the NBA's 50 greatest, the all time greatest 3 point shooter...a borderline HOF bigman.
All that and I didn't even mention Stephen Jackson, a guy who the Spurs still haven't fully replaced.
On the contrary, that team was the best Spurs team ever, it was probably one of the best teams ever, and if you think Tim Duncan won that le all by himself you evidentally missed the Lakers kicking the Spurs asses off the court the previous 2 years, and beating them again the following year when many of those players were gone.
And BTW, it still took Robert Horry missing the only big playoff shot of his career to beat that Laker team.
One man teams don't beat 3 time defending champions. If Duncan was that good he would have won a le every year he was healthy.
Edit: I forgot to mention Bruce Bowen and his 8 all NBA d teams...I know he was relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things...I mean he was only guarding Kobe and when did Kobe ever give the Spurs trouble?
Last edited by whottt; 03-29-2010 at 05:14 PM.
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