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They would've been equally talented and had a different style. The Mavs did pretty good with Dirk, Josh and JET; I have a hard time believing a core of Dirk, Allen and Pierce couldn't get to the Finals and beat that Laker team.
I really doubt that scouts, front-office executives, coaches and players would put him in that category and on par with Shaq, Kobe and Duncan. A #1 guy is pretty rare - right now we only have three (Bron, Kobe and Wade). In the early part of this decade, I could only name Duncan, Shaq and Kobe. KG was never a #1 guy and every GM and coach not named Flip Saunders would back me up on that. I could care less what people with blogs write.
So people with blogs writing stupid proves KG was a true #1 guy and Dirk wasn't?Again, I don't agree with it (IMO he's 4) but the fact that there's people that think he is the second best player of the decade shows you how good he was in his prime. Even if a BS opinion, I'm sure you won't find an article saying that Dirk was the second best player of the decade.
They would've been equally talented and had a different style. The Mavs did pretty good with Dirk, Josh and JET; I have a hard time believing a core of Dirk, Allen and Pierce couldn't get to the Finals and beat that Laker team.
Allen, Pierce and Rondo took the conference champs to seven games without KG. You're telling me that adding Dirk doesn't get them past Orlando?
Rondo 2009 > Rondo 2008
Allen 2009 > Allen 2008
And like that a lot of other players on that Celtics squad. Plus the confidence of having won it all the year before and the hability of playing pressure free because they weren't considered the candidates on that series, help them extend the series to 7 games. To answer your question: yes I think Dirk would have help them advance but with KG they would have advanced also.
They should just make a KG v. Dirk episode on Deadliest Warrior.
That could finally settle this.
Why findog is wasting his time on DAF is beyond me. Even other spurfans have written this guy off. His shtick gets old. "Someone once said Manu is the 2nd best SG in the league!" or "Someone once said KG was the best player in the whole wide world!" then once you ask him for proof he shuts up.
I agree with DoK. Dirk=Garnett>Duncan
If I'm so worthless why the do YOU waste so much time on me? you have been here for like two months and have quoted me more than any other poster on this site, please stop doing it or if you do please post something worth reading not the same you always post or a ing gay smiley, thanks and God bless you.
P/S: When the did I say that Manu was the best SG in the league? Why do you like making up?
Actually I did hear Jeff Van Gundy call Manu the 2nd best SG in the league 2 years ago when D-Whistle was injured all year. It was a valid claim at the time too.
Still lol @ Manu > Dirk
I've stopped wasting my time on you tbh. Sometimes you post something stupider than usual and I have to say something. Haven't really contributed much to this argument.
I actually agree with DAF about the KG Celtics thing. KG came in brought a culture where everyone was held accountable and made sure everyone knew their role and did their job. The extra energy that team played with every night was because of KG. KG more or less saved Doc Rivers' career as the Celtics' coach because he saw to it everyone was on the same page and listened to him.
Still, as an individual player, IMO, Dirk = KG.
lol, contradicting yourself
Explain please how I contradicted myself.
One statement treats the MVP voting like it's a great barometer of a player's value, the other acts like it doesn't mean jack .
lol, contradicting yourself
Winning the MVP isn't the same as beign the best player on the world, however when you win the MVP (or get close to it) you're definitely the best player on your team.
lol, excuses
What I said it's true and you know it.
DAF86,
man you keep saying that KG's career is so much better and that he was considered one of the best whereas Dirk never was.
Than how about some basic facts:
- Dirk has an MVP just as KG does, plus two other top 3 finishes, just like KG
- Dirk has 4 All-NBA First Team nominatons, just like KG, and might have had a chance to overpass him if he hadn't hurt his elbow while enjoying his finest season, as most fans in here were agreeing. Now, LBJ and Durant are locks at the forward position I think. Still he's going to pass KG in Second Team nominations, and all of this while he has played 3 less years in the league
Dirk has been considered for a while as an elite player in this league. And since we are talking about blogs and stuff, KG will never match his 06 playoffs heroics, during which Bill Simmons called him the best forward since Bird, Hollinger called him one of the most efficient players ever, and with Kobe the top two offensive threats in the league by a wide margin. In every player ranking after those playoffs, he was ranked as the top PF, overtaking Duncan and with writers at CBS and CNNSI claiming that this was his moment in the spotlight. Of course, he would end up winning the MVP that season as well. That is some serious praise thrown to a player who is a "soft, jumpshooting, European".
I don't think that it means they couldn't have won a le with a slightly different iden y centered around a core of Dirk, Pierce and Allen. We'll never know for sure because it's a hypothetical, but I have a real hard time believing that he couldn't win a le with Pierce and Allen when he came so close with Terry and Howard.
He and Pierce were the co-mvps of that team in the regular season, but ask any Celtics fan who was more instrumental in the playoffs and they'll say Pierce. They couldn't have won a le without either one of those guys, but Pierce was their best player in the playoffs. Again, it just goes to show why Garnett is a 1.5 and not a 1: he can't carry a team offensively in crunch time like Pierce. And Pierce is a 1.5 and not a 1 because for years he sloughed off the responsibility of being a #1 guy and a leader. For all of Garnett's faults as a and somebody who you can't run your offense through in the last five minutes of a game, he is somebody that inspires his teammates with his work ethic and gets everybody to fall in line behind his example.
I'll agree with that Findog. Pierce was very reluctant to take up the leadership mantle for years, which is why Antoine Walker did his best to. I guess that's why I can't hate on Walker, no matter how many ridiculous antics he threw out there.
Dirk=KG
But Dirk is clutch, he can carry a team in a 4th quarter. We don't know for sure if the C would be better with Dirk, but I think the mavs would not be as good with KG. Who would score in the money time, terry maybe but he's no Cassell or Pierce.
Ive seen it said that if you swap Dirk with Sheed of '04 Pistons, KG of '08 Celtics, and Gasol of '09 Lakers those teams would not win it all.
Really though? Is Dirk's game inherently flawed that he simply cannot fit into a championship team? There's really no way to prove any of this, and its illogical to say they absolutely would not have won it all.
All I know is that KG's performance was very suboptimal in the Finals. I have a tough time believing that if you swap Dirk with KG that they absolutely would've lost to the Lakers... or Pistons/Cavs/Hawks before that.
If I say you swap Dirk with Shaq 00-02 the Lakers still 3 peat, then it sounds really dumb. but Dirk being swapped with '08 KG and the Celtics still winning it all isn't really irrational at all. they'd be more efficient offensively and less stout defensively... whether the difference would be enough to hypothetically have dethroned them is a mystery until it was actually simulated.
Swap Gasol with Dirk for the 09 Lakers and they sweep the Rockets....
sheed/kg are more compelling hypotheticals than gasol since those teams were extremely defensive oriented and dirk is not nearly as good as those two defensively... still, have to consider his efficiency advantage over KG, and his pretty overwhelming offensive efficiency advantage over Rasheed. if i recall that pistons team was actually mediocre offensively.
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