best way to go: paper plates, diswaher or sink wash?

[florige]

Eh, truth be told, I don't do Chinet any more......but not because I don't want to...

Costco just recently stopped carrying my favorite 300 count bag of the smaller size 8 inch Chinet plates and I've had to settle on the Dixie (maybe it's hefty?) brand.

I never really had a problem with Chinet dishes. I just can never find a large enough quan y of them. I do need to stop being lazy though.

[Dex]

Because the world IS NOT DISPOSABLE. Everything has limits, and every act of consumption has consequences. This is not widely understood, and it is acted upon even less, as is clear from many of the comments above.

The mindset behind using disposable cutlery because you can't be bothered to wash things is the same mindset that will bring down civilisation through rapid and unnecessary resource depletion and pollution. If you have 2 meals a day on disposable items, you will use 730 sets of those disposables per year, 7300 hundred sets a decade per person! The cost of that in terms of energy, resources and pollution, not to mention money, is 100s-1000s of times higher than using crockery/cutlery and washing it. Get it?

Disposability as a minset has only truly arisen in the last 50 years as an offshoot of convenience culture - the idea that instant gratification is a right that usurps all other concerns... as long as you can afford it. The problem arises because the cost of things does not incorporate the depletion of resources, environmental damage, and damage to human health done by consuming things. If we paid the full price (including all externalities) for what we consume we, as individuals and societies, would consume the planet's resources more rationally, understanding the limits placed on us by a finite planet.

Sustainability in all things is the only way to prolong the wonderful lives we live for future generations. Living disposably dooms our great grandchildren to life on a ravaged planet.

/rant

PS Rather than reacting with vitriol and calling me a Communist, I ask you as a friend and fellow traveler just to think about what I've written above for a moment - really think about the implications for the future of living a disposable lifestyle. Thanks.

Of course, what you do about it is up to you.

[Tree hugger]

Because the world IS NOT DISPOSABLE. Everything has limits, and every act of consumption has consequences. This is not widely understood, and it is acted upon even less, as is clear from many of the comments above.

The mindset behind using disposable cutlery because you can't be bothered to wash things is the same mindset that will bring down civilisation through rapid and unnecessary resource depletion and pollution. If you have 2 meals a day on disposable items, you will use 730 sets of those disposables per year, 7300 hundred sets a decade per person! The cost of that in terms of energy, resources and pollution, not to mention money, is 100s-1000s of times higher than using crockery/cutlery and washing it. Get it?

Disposability as a minset has only truly arisen in the last 50 years as an offshoot of convenience culture - the idea that instant gratification is a right that usurps all other concerns... as long as you can afford it. The problem arises because the cost of things does not incorporate the depletion of resources, environmental damage, and damage to human health done by consuming things. If we paid the full price (including all externalities) for what we consume we, as individuals and societies, would consume the planet's resources more rationally, understanding the limits placed on us by a finite planet.

Sustainability in all things is the only way to prolong the wonderful lives we live for future generations. Living disposably dooms our great grandchildren to life on a ravaged planet.

/rant

PS Rather than reacting with vitriol and calling me a Communist, I ask you as a friend and fellow traveler just to think about what I've written above for a moment - really think about the implications for the future of living a disposable lifestyle. Thanks.

Of course, what you do about it is up to you.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I would have to agree....there are things/habits I have that I would like to and am trying to change and I absolutely acknowledge the understanding that we are living on a planet with finite resources.

IIRC, you are an energy consultant of sorts? I like hearing this kind of stuff, so I'm curious, what other things do you do to help conserve our resources? What method of transportation do you have, how do you wash clothes/take showers, what is your source of energy for your house, etc...

I am a sustainability consultant and educator, and an energy auditor for households, soon to branch into businesses.

The first thing you can do to make your lifestyle more sustainable is to baseline your consumption - that is, find out exactly what you are doing now. For this I would use a spreadsheet and track your consumption of:
*electricity/natural gas/wood/whatever other fuels you use at home,
*water
*petrol/diesel/LPG/any other transport fuels you use
*long-distance journeys (such as car trips over 100kms, flights)
*food (what it is and where it comes from, how much you eat at home vs takeaway vs restaurants)
*consumables (things like drinks, gum, magazines that you buy and throw away but forget about)
*waste/recycling
*anything else you regularly consume.

Once you have set this up it only takes a few minutes a week to keep the figures going in so that you can track your consumption through time (important since it is often seasonal). After a year you will have a pretty complete picture of your consumption patterns.

Now, how do you change these things? There are hundreds of things you can do... I don't have time to list them all now but there are plenty of books out there on the subject. This one is particularly good (second one down... Greeniology:

http://www.tanyaha.com/Pages/books.html

The simplest things you can do:
1. minimise your use of transport fuels (look in the other recent thread for ideas I mentioned about that).
2. recycle and compost everything possible - it takes very little time to do properly, and once you do this you should have very little waste going to landfill, and you even get a useful product out of it!
3. do a home energy audit and minimise your use of electricity/gas (I help people to do this as part of my work and get amazing results - it even makes people happier).
4. eat as much fresh, locally grown food as possibly.
5. reuse and repair, or buy second hand, if at all possible. It is energy/material throughput that is the problem, so by doing these things you help to 'close the loop'.

Want to know more, ask specific questions and I'll fill you in.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

What method of transportation do you have, how do you wash clothes/take showers, what is your source of energy for your house, etc...

What do I do?

Okay, I live in a small 2-bedroom apartment and do the following:
*turn everything off at the switch when not in use, and minimise my use of heating and cooling - this results in consumption of 8kWh/day of electricity in winter (I have no access to natural gas for heating, so use it only to take the chill off the place), 4kWh/day in summer (I use only fans for cooling). I recently put awnings on my western windows and that made a HUGE difference to my comfort level. Before I started doing these things I was averaging 12kWh/day+.
*when showering, I take quick showers (2-3mins) when all I need is a wash, and occasionally (say once a week) longer showers (8-10mins) when I'm tired and sore - this results in an average of about 4mins and 36L of water used per shower (I measured the flow rate of the shower and multiplied it out during my annual self-audit).
*I wash very little laundry - 2 full tubs a month. Unless something is actually dirty or smelly I see no point to washing it, which means I don't waste water on clothes that could be re-worn.
*For transport I have a car (on LPG, not gas - it produces about 25% less emissions/km than my old petrol car) and a bike, and also use the bus. I use each according to need and purpose. This results in filling the car only once a month (about 75L of LPG, down from 250L of petrol/month 7 years ago).
*buy locally grown food where possible (and it is possible for 90%+ of what I eat).
*buy second hand goods where possible, and simply don't buy much.

In all I've cut my footprint by about 60% in 4 years, and I'm as happy as I've ever been.

All of this, and the fact that I own my apartment and car, means that I only need $13k a year to live a comfortable, happy lifestyle. I don't use credit so I'm never in debt, and work doesn't rule my life - I work to live, not live to work.

I say this not to be smug or an arse, but because Blake wanted to know. Everyone can make their consumption more efficient whilst saving money and the environment, and not going without. I am living proof.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

OH HERE IT COMES!

HERE WE GO!

The AUSTRALIAN (who loves to post on AMERICAN message boards(1)) is telling us that he, an AUSTRALIAN, is (after roughly a decade of being in college (2) working toward a post-graduate degree in a laughably comical field (3)from an AUSTRALIAN university(4)) is finally ready to monetize his inherent iness and go into business for himself as a professional gaping vagina.(5)

Why don't you but out of a conversation that has nothing to do with you?

(1) When did SpurTalk become for Americans only again? Didn't get that memo. And I don't post on it because it's American, I post on it because i am a Spurs fan and have friends in SA...

(2) Sorry? I did my first degree back in the '90s, and my second from 2006-8? While studying, and in-between, I worked about 15 different jobs, so don't pull the "lazy student" bull on me.

(3) What exactly do you do for living, bird? Sustainability is "laughable", huh? How exactly is civilisation going to perpetuate itself when over 2/3s of our energy comes from NON-RENEWABLE sources, and we are devastating the planet's oceans, rivers, soils and atmosphere?

(4) Oh, you mean the ANU, 16th ranked university in the world? Yeah, what a terrible place to be educated.

What makes you think American universities are better than Australian, European, Japanese, Canadian, etc. universities? If you had a ing clue you'd know that there are great universities in most developed nations.

(5) You just cover yourself with glory in every post. Does anyone around here actually like you or respect you? No-one I can see.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You are living proof that anyone can increase their vaginal footprint by 60% in four years.

And you are living proof that human beings can turn their brain into an arsehole.

off and die you worthless piece of .

[Dr. Gonzo]

haha what a .

[Dr. Gonzo]

I like to buy a pack of 100 Styrofoam and dissolve them in some gas. Then I write the word pussy with the sludge created by the dissolved mixture on a vacant street and set it on fire. Not only is it cool because it burns for a very long time, it is amusing because it says pussy.

[The Reckoning]

I like to buy a pack of 100 Styrofoam and dissolve them in some gas. Then I write the word pussy with the sludge created by the dissolved mixture on a vacant street and set it on fire. Not only is it cool because it burns for a very long time, it is amusing because it says pussy.

i used to do that and called it NAPALM

USA! USA! USA!

[florige]

OH HERE IT COMES!

HERE WE GO!

The pacifistic AUSTRALIAN is telling me, an AMERICAN, to " off and die"!

Yet, not a long time ago, the same AUSTRALIAN, was talking about me, an AMERICAN, to the two owners of SpursTalk.com, who also happen to be AMERICANS:

You two should just fight it out in person and get it over with. Probably would feel alot better afterwards.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

OH HERE IT COMES!

HERE WE GO!

The pacifistic AUSTRALIAN is telling me, an AMERICAN, to " off and die"!

Yet, not a long time ago, the same AUSTRALIAN, was talking about me, an AMERICAN, to the two owners of SpursTalk.com, who also happen to be AMERICANS:

Yeah, about 3 years ago, and you deserve every bit of it. You stalk me like I'm your ing pet project. You contribute nothing to this place. You are not smart or funny, you don't help out in any way, so why the are you here? Just to be an arsehole?

What is your fascination with your being AMERICAN. WGAF? How is it at all relevant? I have known Kori and LJ for about a decade now and consider them friends, but because we don't come from the same country I'm not allowed to talk to them about your appalling behaviour? you, pal. You have some real mental issues.

Oh, and who says I'm a pacifist? Once again, you assume/make things up/attribute words to me I never said, which is, of course, your modus operandi. , I'd love to take a ing axe handle to your knees and watch you writhe in pain. You encapsulate everything I hate about humanity.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Ah, of course, you are Cosmic Cowboy's troll, eh? Just occurred to me, but makes perfect sense.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I love how RuffnReadyOzStyle spells 'behaviour'

crofl waffle

What, you mean the correct way?

English came before American English, moron. They dumbed-down the spelling because nuckles like you can't handle it.

[Yahoo Serious]

RuffnReadyOzStyle makes me ashamed of being Australian.

[Dr. Gonzo]

What, you mean the correct way?

English came before American English, moron. They dumbed-down the spelling because nuckles like you can't handle it.

Now you are talking about America? That's not cool.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You two should just fight it out in person and get it over with. Probably would feel alot better afterwards.

Yeah, I think so. I wonder if he can actually fight or if he's just another internet tough guy? if it is actually Cosmic Cowboy I think I'd get my arse handed to me, but if he's just some average internet wanker I'd tear him apart.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

RuffnReadyOzStyle makes me ashamed of being Australian.

Nice one, mouse.

Now you are talking about America? That's not cool.

Sorry? Reading comprehension a problem for you? I didn't talk bad about America, I responded with a statement of fact (spelling in American English is simplified, such as removing the 'u' from '-our' endings), and then an insult to the guy who insulted me. That is insulting America??? GTFOH.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Nice one, mouse.



Sorry? Reading comprehension a problem for you? I didn't talk bad about America, I responded with a statement of fact (spelling in American English is simplified, such as removing the 'u' from '-our' endings), and then an insult to the guy who insulted me. That is insulting America??? GTFOH.

You stated that the English was "dumbed down". That suggests that Americans aren't smart enough to spell words with extra useless at the end of them.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Anyway, enough of the banter.

Don't you love how 4cc never admits anything? Never answers a question? Never gives anything away? Why? Because if we knew the truth it would be that he's a sad little joke of a man sitting in his crappy apartment chain-smoking himself to death, eating Cheetos and abusing his fellow humanity... what a life! I really should feel sorry for him, but I don't because he's pathetic beyond pity.

[Yahoo Serious]

Ruff, as Australia's only successful citizen I command you stop with your nonsense. Seriously, you are making us all look bad.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Anyway, enough of the banter.

Don't you love how 4cc never admits anything? Never answers a question? Never gives anything away? Why? Because if we knew the truth it would be that he's a sad little joke of a man sitting in his crappy apartment chain-smoking himself to death, eating Cheetos and abusing his fellow humanity... what a life! I really should feel sorry for him, but I don't because he's pathetic beyond pity.

Who are you to judge whether that life is pathetic?

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

You stated that the English was "dumbed down". That suggests that Americans aren't smart enough to spell words with extra useless at the end of them.

They dumbed-down the spelling because nuckles like you (4cc) can't handle it.

So you're trying to tie one hand my back in an insult war with a troll who has been obsessed with me for years? You're taking a little language smack (which HE started - go and take a look) as a personal affront to your nation? Grow up.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Who are you to judge whether that life is pathetic?

I find it to be pathetic. You can make your own judgments.

[Dr. Gonzo]

So you're trying to tie one hand my back in an insult war with a troll who has been obsessed with me for years? You're taking a little language smack (which HE started - go and take a look) as a personal affront to your nation? Grow up.

Why would the entire language need to be dumbed down for one person, who I might add was not even born at the time? So it had to have been "dumbed down" for Americans in general, in your words.