ranking Bird ahead of Duncan:reasons?

[SomeCallMeTim]

then let me retrieve it back to the topic of Duncan and Bird comparison. Bird played the game in wider areas than Duncan has been doing, with accurate shooting from as far as the arc, but I'd say Duncan is a greater player overall genuinely not only because Duncan has more rings mantled but also the impacts Duncan brings are far bigger than Bird's.

With so many superb supporting cards like McHale, Bird only managed 2 rings through his whole career IIRC while Tim Duncan earned 4 with the same class of assistants, if not under those of Bird's. Bird played soft games and lacked the strength or mettle needed to salvage his team as what's always done by real leaders like Tim Duncan. In the highest respects, Bird is no more than a 7-ft shooting guard and isn't supposed to win any ring, it's just because of his superb teammates and some good luck he retired with rings.

Finally, someone drops some real knowledge in this thread. Bird's success was due to luck, indeed.

BTW, you were off on the number of rings Bird won, he won 1 IIRC. Until there's some way to look these things up, I'll just go from memory.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

re: Bird overrated because of being white -- my opinion is that, if anything, he was underrated because of being white. You can make an argument that run-of-the-mill players get some advantage from being white, if only because they are a minority and stand out a bit. But when you're all-NBA caliber, I think it's probably the opposite.

re: Bird not being athletic -- athleticism in basketball is not a one-dimensional thing. It's not just about moving quickly and jumping high. Bird had the most skilled and quick hands and arms and generally upper body I ever saw. And his ability to shoot from any angle and pass accurately was simply amazing.

This went along with an amazingly arrogant kick-ass at ude. He simply believed no one could stop him or beat him. Self-confidence goes a long way to success.

[duncan228]

With so many superb supporting cards like McHale, Bird only managed 2 rings through his whole career IIRC...

BTW, you were off on the number of rings Bird won, he won 1 IIRC. Until there's some way to look these things up, I'll just go from memory.

Just for the record, Bird won 3 Championships, 1981, 84, and 86. He was Finals MVP 2 of them. He won 3 League MVPs in a row, 1984, 85, and 86.

[Biggems]

well if he is the top PF of all-time and he isnt in the top 10, then that means the PF position is not very high on the list.

[poop]

duncan: starting PF with robinson as Center from '98 thru 2003
starting PF with 7-footers rasho or nazi starting Center from '04 thru '07

so tim duncan's entire prime career 1998 thru 2007 was as a PF while starting alongside a starting 7-foot Center.

but yes, continue your great arguement that he was actually the center all along.

[Darthkiller]

u people do realize before jordan made his first 3 peat, bird was considered the GOAT by majority of the nba people. i guess most of u werent born then judging by the comments posted here.

[poop]

u people do realize before jordan made his first 3 peat, bird was considered the GOAT by majority of the nba people. i guess most of u werent born then judging by the comments posted here.

whatever, put bird in todays game and he would be good, but not dominate. all the old players' stats are inflated beyond belief. wilt 50 and 25 pg put bird in there now and he'd have about an 8 year career with 20 ppg, 8 assts and maybe 7 rb.

put Bill '19ppg and 27 rb per game' Russell in today and he'd get 15 and 10.
put tim duncan in russell's era and he'd get 35 and 20.

put shaq back in the 60's and early 70-'s and he'd do 40 and 30.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I didn't read the whole thread, but it's hard to compare Bird and Duncan because they played in different eras. I am certain it's been discussed before, but suppose Duncan came to the Spurs in 1979 along with Bird and Magic's entry into the NBA? He certainly would have gotten a lot of exposure.

Now, the east was Dr. J vs. Bird, and the Sixers won the east 3 of the first 4 years starting in 1979-80. The west would be Magic and Kareem vs. Duncan and Gervin. Could the Spurs have won the west and then the NBA le in the 1980's?

It's great fodder for discussion. My point is, if Duncan and Bird met in the finals, there would be a better definition of comparison. I'll say this:

Lakers were weakest in 1981, 1983, and 1986. Would those Spurs be better than Houston in 1981 and 1986? They would face both Philly's and Boston's best teams in 1983 and 1986. 1981 was Boston's first season with McHale and Parish. How would Duncan and Gervin fare against the better Lakers teams of the 1980's?

Tim Duncan is probably a better player than Bird, but he'll never get his due. We need 3 lists; centers, forwards, and guards. Or maybe 5 lists if you wish to separate positions further. It is unfair to compare players who do different things on the court.

[ezau]

The only thing people will remember about the 2000's is Kobe. Duncan is already forgotten.

They'll remember Kobe for raping a white .

[ezau]

oh come on.

Bird is easil the 2nd or 3rd greatest player of all time, depending on whether you put magic above him or not.

Its not a knock on duncan, Hakeem, Barkley, Kobe or anyone else.

Why is Kobe even in this sentence?

[lennyalderette]

he's a better player. Doesn't possess longjevity Duncan has had. But his influence on basketball is far bigger than Duncan's

are you serious??!?!!?!?! other than dirk, i havent heard" i model my game after bird" then again you hear every PF say they hate the spurs but they model their game after timmy so i would say timmy is just as important if not more of an influence

[Galileo]

in all these 'lists' i see Bird usually put ahead of Duncan.

why exactly?

bird won 3 les. duncan won 4. bird had 2 finals MVPs. duncan has 3. none of duncans les were back to back. neither were any of bird's. Bird was consistently outstanding for like 9-10 seasons, then broke down and retired after like 12. Duncan has had 13 consecutive outstanding seasons and counting. bird has a slight edge in offensive stats, duncan has the edge in defensive stats.

what argument exists to support Bird over Duncan? just that he played for the boston celtics?

Duncan is better, I agree. Your team wins more games and more championships with Duncan.

[Darthkiller]

whatever, put bird in todays game and he would be good, but not dominate. all the old players' stats are inflated beyond belief. wilt 50 and 25 pg put bird in there now and he'd have about an 8 year career with 20 ppg, 8 assts and maybe 7 rb.

put Bill '19ppg and 27 rb per game' Russell in today and he'd get 15 and 10.
put tim duncan in russell's era and he'd get 35 and 20.

put shaq back in the 60's and early 70-'s and he'd do 40 and 30.

wow are u that stupid. u realized that bird played in the 80s and 90s right?

since bird schooled jordan everytime they played. are u saying that jordan would just be a 18 ppg scrub in today's nba? oh wait, a nearly 40 year old jordan still averaged 22 ppg when with the wizards.

[JamStone]

Lol Bird routinely punked better athletes at the small forward position when he played. He put it on Dominique, Dr. J, Dennis Rodman, James Worthy. All guys who athletically could compete in today's NBA. It's crazy to think he couldn't similarly dominate in today's NBA. He might have some struggles defensively against certain players, but his offense wasn't predicated on athleticism. He was quick enough to be dominant back then. And he used skill and IQ to beat opponents. He's still be a 25/8/5 guy in today's NBA.

[Mel_13]

Lol Bird routinely punked better athletes at the small forward position when he played. He put it on Dominique, Dr. J, Dennis Rodman, James Worthy. All guys who athletically could compete in today's NBA. It's crazy to think he couldn't similarly dominate in today's NBA. He might have some struggles defensively against certain players, but his offense wasn't predicated on athleticism. He was quick enough to be dominant back then. And he used skill and IQ to beat opponents. He's still be a 25/8/5 guy in today's NBA.

All true.

These lists are subjective opinions, but I still can't understand why anyone is bothered if Duncan's name typically appears a few spots below Bird's on most lists. Bird and Magic saved the NBA from descending into irrelevancy and their places near the very top of these lists reflects those contributions in addition to their undeniable individual greatness.

[wekko368]

duncan: starting PF with robinson as Center from '98 thru 2003
starting PF with 7-footers rasho or nazi starting Center from '04 thru '07

so tim duncan's entire prime career 1998 thru 2007 was as a PF while starting alongside a starting 7-foot Center.

but yes, continue your great arguement that he was actually the center all along.

I'm curious why you think it's impossible for a team to have two centers on the court at the same time.

[JMarkJohns]

whatever, put bird in todays game and he would be good, but not dominate. all the old players' stats are inflated beyond belief. wilt 50 and 25 pg put bird in there now and he'd have about an 8 year career with 20 ppg, 8 assts and maybe 7 rb.

put Bill '19ppg and 27 rb per game' Russell in today and he'd get 15 and 10.
put tim duncan in russell's era and he'd get 35 and 20.

put shaq back in the 60's and early 70-'s and he'd do 40 and 30.

Further proof my early su ions of you having never seen Bird play were dead on... As others have already said, you're flat-out wrong in your assessment. As to whether Duncan should be ranked higher than Bird, I can't tell you anything more than I already have. The statistical comparisons have Bird as the 5th best player, Duncan the 8th. The stastical and matchup analysis has Bird with a higher winshares for the first nine years of his career (13.75) than does Duncan (13.01) over his first nine years. Again, this is prejudice-free statistical comparisons. You have already proven willing to diminish them, but as DarthKiller and Jamstone have already illustrated, you're very wrong in such actions. The 1980's were arguably the most compe ive decade in basketball's history, and Bird was arguably the player of the decade.

[picc84]

He'd dominate more.

[Galileo]

Bird and Magic used to kick the out of Jordan. So did Hakeem.