Goran Dragič is a better play than Steve Nash

[mogrovejo]

Nash is a very bad defender at the point of attack, but let's not overplay the negative effect that brings to the Suns. There are some starting PGs that may be worse defenders than Nash - Fisher, Calderon, Bibby - and several others who may be better but are still in the same tier - Curry, Harris in the last 2 seasons, Arroyo. Even guys like Jarret Jack or Baron Davis in lots of nights, Tony Parker, Udrih, Rodriguez... do they do a lot more for your defense than Nash?

Every year the Suns defense is just a little nothing better when Nash is off the court - more 0.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, more 2 points allowed per 100 possessions, that kind of difference - and he's actually playing against starters.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash is a very bad defender at the point of attack, but let's not overplay the negative effect that brings to the Suns. There are some starting PGs that may be worse defenders than Nash - Fisher, Calderon, Bibby - and several others who may be better but are still in the same tier - Curry, Harris in the last 2 seasons, Arroyo. Even guys like Jarret Jack or Baron Davis in lots of nights, Tony Parker, Udrih, Rodriguez... do they do a lot more for your defense than Nash?

Every year the Suns defense is just a little nothing better when Nash is off the court - more 0.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, more 2 points allowed per 100 possessions, that kind of difference - and he's actually playing against starters.

Nash is the only player to ever allow Steve Blake to have a 20 point 10 assist night, and he's allowed it twice. Please quit acting like his defense isn't on its own level of ty. Nash makes himself worse than the players you mentioned because he ball hawks way too much. That leads to players being left open and teammates being left out of position. As bad a man defender as Nash is his team defense is just as bad if not worse. Getting rid of Nash wouldn't instantly make them a good defensive team, but as long as they have Nash and his "Fun > winning" culture in Phoenix, the defense is gonna suck.

I'm not saying Nash is the reason they're not a contender so please quit using that strawman, I'm saying that they're never going to be a contender again as long as Nash is on the team running things talking about how much he enjoys losing.

[in2deep]

Blaming Nash for all the Suns' defensive problems is weak IMO.

Especially when you have Amare Stoudemire in the middle

[mogrovejo]

Blaming Nash for all the Suns' defensive problems is weak IMO.

Especially when you have Amare Stoudemire in the middle

Agreed.

Nash is the only player to ever allow Steve Blake to have a 20 point 10 assist night, and he's allowed it twice. Please quit acting like his defense isn't on its own level of ty. Nash makes himself worse than the players you mentioned because he ball hawks way too much. That leads to players being left open and teammates being left out of position. As bad a man defender as Nash is his team defense is just as bad if not worse. Getting rid of Nash wouldn't instantly make them a good defensive team, but as long as they have Nash and his "Fun > winning" culture in Phoenix, the defense is gonna suck.

I'm not saying Nash is the reason they're not a contender so please quit using that strawman, I'm saying that they're never going to be a contender again as long as Nash is on the team running things talking about how much he enjoys losing.

BS. The Suns were contenders with Nash. Surround Nash with the right kind of personnel and you're still contenders, although that's basically impossible now. I agree they should have started rebuilding 2 seasons ago; but Nash is the reason they came close to win a le, not the reason they never won one.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Blaming Nash for all the Suns' defensive problems is weak IMO.

Especially when you have Amare Stoudemire in the middle

2007 thread

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

BS. The Suns were contenders with Nash. Surround Nash with the right kind of personnel and you're still contenders, although that's basically impossible now. I agree they should have started rebuilding 2 seasons ago; but Nash is the reason they came close to win a le, not the reason they never won one.

I see you're still using a strawman argument. I'm talking about right now, I'm well aware of how good Nash was in 2007, this thread has nothing to do with 2007. My point is that from here on out, they will not be a contender as long as Nash is on the team.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Nash post-AS break this year

12.5 points, 46.6% shooting, 10.8 assists, 3.5 turnovers

Time to stop talking about him like he's some sort of god. Since the AS break he's lost just as many games for Phoenix as he's won. Amare is by far the best player on the team right now.

[DPG21920]

Nash is a very bad defender at the point of attack, but let's not overplay the negative effect that brings to the Suns. There are some starting PGs that may be worse defenders than Nash - Fisher, Calderon, Bibby - and several others who may be better but are still in the same tier - Curry, Harris in the last 2 seasons, Arroyo. Even guys like Jarret Jack or Baron Davis in lots of nights, Tony Parker, Udrih, Rodriguez... do they do a lot more for your defense than Nash?

Every year the Suns defense is just a little nothing better when Nash is off the court - more 0.8 points allowed per 100 possessions, more 2 points allowed per 100 possessions, that kind of difference - and he's actually playing against starters.

Yes. Tony Parker is a significantly better defender than Nash. Significantly.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Yes. Tony Parker is a significantly better defender than Nash. Significantly.

Tony Parker at the very least stays on his man and does what his coach expects him to do. Even Mike D'antoni used to openly gripe about Nash's bad habits on defense.

[DPG21920]

TP gets flack from people who don't watch him. He has locked very good players up before. He may not do it all the time, because he runs so much of the offense, but when focused, he is a very good defender.

That is the difference with Nash. Not only is he not focused, he is just not good in that regard. He can't just "lock in" and stop somebody.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

That's the thing that makes no sense when people say stupid stuff like Nash is only a bad defender because of his physical abilities.....what the does physical ability have to do with repeatedly leaving Steve Blake and Derek Fisher wide open? His focus is just as bad as his "physical abilities".

[Kamnik]

what the does physical ability have to do with repeatedly leaving Steve Blake and Derek Fisher wide open? His focus is just as bad as his "physical abilities".

Spot on.

Dragic>Nash