Chris Bosh pulls a WNBA Chokejob

[DPG21920]

Oh my god. So in 8 attempts, KG got out of the first round once, with a support cast (something you love to harp on) FAR SUPERIOR than anything Bosh has played with in his career. He didn't sniff the playoffs after 2004 until he went to Boston. MVP of the regular season?

You asked the question. Don't like the answer, take it up with Bosh's resume. How do I love to harp on it . I used it in one argument as one point and you agreed

Who cares about anything else. KG still has had more playoff success than Bosh. / that argument.

"Regular season MVP is great, but how has he done in the playoffs? He is good, but not a franchise player."

Dumb argument.

You are getting worse as this goes on. Now you want to twist what I said? Where did I say playoff success is it? Once again, you are dealing in absolutes because you don't know what you are talking about. You want to disregard his regular season MVP?

Not nullifying Carmelo's run, just pointing out he's been in a playoff scenario since he was drafted, and only until last year came out of the first round. T-Mac in his prime? How about him?

You put the qualifier on Melo. You keep shifting things to fit your arguments. Once again, you can always find a few things to support any argument, but that does not make you right.

Well, what do you define as a franchise player? Only Kobe, LeBron, and Wade? The fact is only 3 teams have these guys - you gotta build around other players in the league. I don't know if they'd win a ring, but the Raps could do some damage on a team correctly constructed around Bosh.

But they are built around Bosh and have done no damage. Franchise player (as I already defined in this thread) is a clear cut best player on a championship level team imo.

I know there is only a few franchise players. That is what I have said. I never said that you shouldn't build around Bosh. I said he is a very good player. I am simply said you can't builid around Bosh like you could Duncan. You have to surround Bosh with a lot more than a guy like Duncan in order to be a legit contender.

No, I argued if the Raptors are more talented than the Heat, it's only marginally. People seem to agree in this thread.

There you go trying to frame arguments to suit you. I said they are better. You said marginally. I said, so? They are better, who cares to what degree. / that argument.

Fail.

Yes. Yes you do.

LOL @ having to point to KG's tenure with Boston to strengthen a ty point. Let's wait for Bosh to join Lebron in 6 years, in that case.

What is the ty point you think I am making? This seems to be your hang up. What is the ty logic and point that I am making and you are refuting? Clarify it, so I can show you how dumb you look.

[resistanze]

Guy, its safe to say Bosh won't win MVP or defensive player of the year.

BTW what are you mad about? You seem to think I harped pn the ring argument (which I did not) and you say that is "dumb logic". So now, once you realize you were wrong about it, you are arguing the dumbest to save face.

Funny that your name is resistanze when the team you root for and your arguments present none.

Yeah, your original point was implying the regular season doesn't matter much, it's all about playoff success. Correct? You're now defending your use of KG, by pointing to regular season accolades for Garnett and ignoring his playoff futility for over a decade... you seem to contradict your point. Of course, you'll point to KG's ring he got in his 12th season. Should we not wait for Bosh to play 12 seasons then?

I guess the other point you made was Wade > Bosh. Ground-breaking.

You can throw team smack out the window. I've said on this forums for the few years I've been here that I've been following the Spurs for well over a decade and Tim Duncan is my favorite player of this generation. So "4 rings got" can't really apply here, sorry.

And you of all people talking about saying dumb to save face? You?

Let's end it right here.

[DPG21920]

Just a heads up, comparing Bosh to Wade, KG and Lebron shows the direction you are going and how you can't comprehend what I am saying. It illustrates a complete misunderstanding and contortion of what I am saying because you are myopic.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, your original point was implying the regular season doesn't matter much, it's all about playoff success. Correct? You're now defending your use of KG, by pointing to regular season accolades for Garnett and ignoring his playoff futility for over a decade... you seem to contradict your point. Of course, you'll point to KG's ring he got in his 12th season. Should we not wait for Bosh to play 12 seasons then?

I guess the other point you made was Wade > Bosh. Ground-breaking.

You can throw team smack out the window. I've said on this forums for the few years I've been here that I've been following the Spurs for well over a decade and Tim Duncan is my favorite player of this generation. So "4 rings got" can't really apply here, sorry.

And you of all people talking about saying dumb to save face? You?

Let's end it right here.

No, my point was that Bosh has not done a lot in the regular season or in the playoffs. I used playoffs, rings, accolades and general evaluation to compare Bosh to other players.

You focused on one thing and took it to extremes to try and defend yourself.

Yes, you, who argue semantics such as marginally better, talk about dumb . Yes, you, who miss the point and twist what I say, talk about dumb . lol, you.

[DPG21920]

Take away Wade's ring, and just look at this year. Bosh's cast is better than Wade's, yet Wade's team is better.

Has nothing to do with rings, but usually the best players are winning rings.

[DPG21920]

You can throw team smack out the window. I've said on this forums for the few years I've been here that I've been following the Spurs for well over a decade and Tim Duncan is my favorite player of this generation. So "4 rings got" can't really apply here, sorry.
.

Your insecurities on display. I say "playoff success" and you say "oh the ring argument". I say no, playoff success is not just rings.

I make fun of YOUR team's DEFENSE, and you say "4 rings got does not work", even though I said nothing about rings or les or about the Spurs.

[resistanze]

What you don't seem to get is that Wade, Duncan, LeBron > Bosh is not a revelation. But the logic you use is so flawed it's not even funny.

In this thread I've heard you say:

1) Bosh is not a franchise player because he doesn't have much playoff success in his career so far.

Yet you defend KG's playoff futility over a decade and have to point to regular season awards and a ring in his 12th season on a stacked team.

2) You claim we can look at the fact that Miami has a better record than Toronto with a weaker supporting cast as proof that Wade > Bosh and Bosh is not a franchise player.

I show that Toronto's supporting cast is not good at all. But for your sake, let's say Toronto does have a clearly superior cast. Once again, what does that say about Tim Duncan and the 7th seed Spurs, who has a cast of Jefferson (20PPG last year, no exuses about under-achieving) Manu (16.6 PPG, former All-Star), Tony Parker (multiple All-star, Finals MVP, no injury excuses as you said)? I guess my man Timmy isn't a franchise player.

3) Wade, LeBron, KG, Duncan are better players than Bosh

Who's arguing that?

Overall, I don't know what your point is. There are clearly better players than Bosh. I guess you're arguing that the Raptors are built around Bosh in a correct manner, and that it's Bosh's inability to deliver is why they haven't gone far in the playoffs. I think anyone who follows the team know that this team isn't built for success. Not even Kobe could win with a unbalanced and weak supporting cast. You don't seem to get that.

[Lars]

J.O'Neal and Beasely are both better than what the Raptors have after Bosh.

The Raptors are a poorly constructed team, the Heat are not.

[DPG21920]

What you don't seem to get is that Wade, Duncan, LeBron > Bosh is not a revelation. But the logic you use is so flawed it's not even funny.

No it's not.

In this thread I've heard you say:

1) Bosh is not a franchise player because he doesn't have much playoff success in his career so far.

Yet you defend KG's playoff futility over a decade and have to point to regular season awards and a ring in his 12th season on a stacked team.

I did not say the only reason Bosh is not a franchise player is because of playoff success. I said it is one reason. There is a difference. You used KG as an example, I pointed that he has done more in the playoffs (which he has), then you framed the argument to suit you.

Of course I point to his regular season awards, because something like the LEAGUE MVP certainly matters and is just another layer to the argument. No argument is singular. You are struggling with that as I mentioned numerous times in this thread.

2) You claim we can look at the fact that Miami has a better record than Toronto with a weaker supporting cast as proof that Wade > Bosh and Bosh is not a franchise player.

I show that Toronto's supporting cast is not good at all. But for your sake, let's say Toronto does have a clearly superior cast. Once again, what does that say about Tim Duncan, who has a cast of Jefferson (20PPG last year, no exuses about under-achieving) Manu (16.6 PPG, former All-Star), Tony Park (multiple All-star, Finals MVP, no injury excuses as you said)? I guess my man Timmy isn't a franchise player

Once again, your logic is flawed. You can always find an anomaly or an outlier to support arguments. The Wade>Bosh argument came from Rocket fans using Wade as a comparison to Bosh. They said he was better. I said no and used that as ONE EXAMPLE as why he is NOT BETTER THAN WADE. I did not say that Bosh was not a franchise player because of the Wade argument. The were separate issues that you took out of context to suppport your argument. Again.

You can't use that logic with a declining Tim who has won les, had lots of regular season and playoff awards. He is clearly better than Bosh. So your argument that you are trying to frame is stupid. You are again looking at arguments in isolation and not taking into consideration very simple logic and other variables. You seem to have that problem.

3) Wade, LeBron, KG, Duncan are better players than Bosh

Who's arguing that?

You are because you keep mentioning them in the same breath as Bosh as a basis of comparison.

Overall, I don't know what your point is.

Understatement of the thread.

There are clearly better players than Bosh. I guess you're arguing that the Raptors are built around Bosh in a correct manner, and that it's Bosh's inability to deliver is why they haven't gone far in the playoffs. I think anyone who follows the team know that this team isn't built for success.

No. That is not my argument. My argument is that based on a mul ude of factors and watching Bosh, that he is not on the level of franchise player as I define them. Like I said, you take a guy like Tim or Shaq and you can put less around them and win. With Bosh, you have to surround him with a lot of talent just to have a chance.

The fact his team is poorly built and he has not had that is not his fault, but that does not change his game.

[DPG21920]

J.O'Neal and Beasely are both better than what the Raptors have after Bosh.

The Raptors are a poorly constructed team, the Heat are not.

GTFO with that. Bargnani is wayyyyyyyyyyyyy better than Beasley or O'neal. Hedo, as much as he is sucking is still better than them. Jack/Calderon is certainly better than Arroyo/Chalmers.

[resistanze]

I did not say the only reason Bosh is not a franchise player is because of playoff success. I said it is one reason. There is a difference. You used KG as an example, I pointed that he has done more in the playoffs (which he has), then you framed the argument to suit you.

It was you that said of Bosh "what has he done in the playoffs?" I know you like moving the goalposts, but let's address this for a second. I pointed out KG's lack of success in the playoffs, and you point to his regular season accolades. You then ignore his decade of playoff failures and point to his ring on a team that is 10 times better than Bosh has ever played with. You don't see why this is flawed?

Once again, your logic is flawed. You can always find an anomaly or an outlier to support arguments. The Wade>Bosh argument came from Rocket fans using Wade as a comparison to Bosh. They said he was better. I said no and used that as ONE EXAMPLE as why he is NOT BETTER THAN WADE. I did not say that Bosh was not a franchise player because of the Wade argument. The were separate issues that you took out of context to suppport your argument. Again.

I don't remember anyone saying Bosh > Wade in this thread. You'll have to show me, I missed it.

You can't use that logic with a declining Tim who has won les, had lots of regular season and playoff awards. He is clearly better than Bosh. So your argument that you are trying to frame is stupid. You are again looking at arguments in isolation and not taking into consideration very simple logic and other variables. You seem to have that problem.

How ironic. It was you who chose it take THIS season in isolation to show that Heat are doing better than the Raptors, thus Wade > Bosh. You also disregarded injuries and "under-achieving" as factors. You can't then point to Duncan's past success in this stupid argument you set up. I'm talking about this season. Don't bring up old . You set the conditions for the comparison, don't change it. It's not about comparing Duncan to Bosh.

You are because you keep mentioning them in the same breath as Bosh as a basis of comparison.

Nope, that's just your affinity for straw-man arguments.

No. That is not my argument. My argument is that based on a mul ude of factors and watching Bosh, that he is not on the level of franchise player as I define them. Like I said, you take a guy like Tim or Shaq and you can put less around them and win. With Bosh, you have to surround him with a lot of talent just to have a chance.

Is this news? How many players in the NBA can be built around like Timmy and Shaq? Again, what's your point? That you need to surround Bosh with more pieces than say, Shaq or Duncan? That's great, we can all agree on that. KG needed Ray Allen and Paul Pierce to win a ring, don't you think Bosh could make some noise in the playoffs on a team with similar talent? Has Bosh ever played with a talent of that caliber?

Understatement of the thread.

You're telling me. If I knew your argument basically came down to Duncan, LeBron, Shaq > Bosh to build your team around, I wouldn't have wasted my time .

[DPG21920]

I don't want to keep showing you how you are wrong and how you lack the ability to tie things together. What is your argument on bosh? That he has not had enough time to prove anything nor the cast? What is your take?

[JustBlaze]

Stupid kid pointing out what's obvious, not once but twice throughout the video.

[resistanze]

I don't want to keep showing you how you are wrong and how you lack the ability to tie things together. What is your argument on bosh? That he has not had enough time to prove anything nor the cast? What is your take?

The team Colangelo has built around Bosh won't to do any damage, as they one of the worst defensive teams in the NBA. That's not on Bosh, who is playing out of his mind. KG, who you defended failed for a good decade - Bosh hasn't played nearly as long. I think it's obvious you cant build a team around Bosh like, say Duncan in 2003. But if you think Bosh has had ample opportunity to prove anything based on his cast well...let's agree to disagree. Hopefully he'll leave the Raptors and join a half decent team and we'll see how far he goes.

Go ahead and gimme your take.