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This is what people seem to be forgetting about TP. He was never really healthy all season, and George allowed him to be rested for a few extra games because we were still playing well. A healthy Tony will be much improved over a 70% Tony
Heading into this season, many Spurs fans were talking about the reins being handed over from Tim Duncan to Tony Parker. However, after a slew of injuries combined with relatively poor play, a vocal minority of Spurs fans are talking quite differently: Are these Spurs better without Tony Parker?
The theory goes that since Parker is a scoring point guard, his skillset no longer meshes well with the more well-rounded roster, thus the Spurs are better with a more passive, defensive-minded player like George Hill running point guard and Manu Ginobili orchestrating the show.
I compared the numbers from the 26 games Parker has missed this season to the 50 games Parker has played in to see what the statistics have to say on this matter.
I'm honestly surprised the numbers are so close. Subjectively, the Spurs play a different brand of basketball without Parker. But statistically speaking, there really isn't much of a difference. With Parker, the Spurs have outscored the opponents by 5.49 points per 100 possessions. Without Parker, that number drops to 5.31.
Looking at those numbers, it isn't fair to say Parker has hurt the Spurs this season. It is fair, however, to say that Parker hasn't been much more of an asset this season than what San Antonio is getting from George Hill.
If you compare the Parker's advanced stats to Hill's advanced stats, the case against Parker becomes even more difficult to make.
Overall, these number reinforce a few points. First of all, Hill should be commended for the job he has done filling in for Parker. He's had big shoes to fill and has done about as well as possible. The dropoff from Parker to Hill this season has been minimal. That said, if a constantly injured s of what was supposed to be Tony Parker helped this team, I'm excited to see how much Parker can help once he's actually playing well.
This is what people seem to be forgetting about TP. He was never really healthy all season, and George allowed him to be rested for a few extra games because we were still playing well. A healthy Tony will be much improved over a 70% Tony
Also, the whole team has come a long way since the beginning of the season. RJ, Dice, and especially Manu are all playing at a much higher level then they were in the beginning of the season.
No disrespect to Hill, but if an injured Parker put up similar numbers to Hill, then what does it tell you about the type of player Parker is (and the gap that still exists between the two) when Parker is 100% healthy?
All this debating about the guards, who should start, chemistry, etc. is over analyzing. When healthy, the Spurs easily have the best back court in the league and the reality is the Spurs were beginning to look how they do now just before Parker was injured, it's not like they magically started to look better the instant he went down.
Tony Parker's presence may hurt the Spurs versus the Lakers. The matchup is tougher for LAL without Parker.
Agreed. Im glad hes coming back tonight though because when any player misses a month worth of games it's going to take some adjusting to.. Glad were able to do that before the playoffs start.
You'll have to elaborate on this one...
TP torches fish
Hope Parker be the Parker of last season. Then we have great hope to win the le.
Looking at the stats,the question begging to be asked is this: If Parker is considered to be such a big cog of the Spurs. how come his extended absence doesn't seem to have had a detrimental impact on the team? Stats are essentially the same with or without him so does this bolster the argument that he's expendable and maybe the Spurs could find a replacement who might have a bigger impact? Maybe a true pass-first, defensive PG with a true 3-point shot?
Or is it a case that Manu is simply playing out of his mind in Tony's absence and he won't be able to sustain this level of play without breaking down eventually so Tony's return is just what the Spurs need?
Question, and this has probably been asked already and I just missed it.
Does anyone know how Parker's other injuries are?
Thats totally inaccurate.
Parker is a huge asset against the Lakers, especially with Fisher still in the starting role.
His quickness will help against their bigs. Get a healthy slashing Parker and resurgant Ginobilli on the floor at the same time??...... damn....
Exactly. Manu is arguably playing the best basketball of his entire career at the moment. No doubt he has kept this team afloat and he deserves credit for it. There is not one person who thought Manu could be this good still... It's pretty amazing. Saying that... How long will he be able to hold up playing like this... We already know he can't play a whole season at that level. Tony coming back will be able to give Tim and Manu much needed rest without the team going into meltdown mode on the court.
Everybody does. Parker should torch Fish a lot more than he does. But essentially, Ginobili can torch the Lakers overall more than Parker.
-Like timvp said, Parker didn't hurt the team, like some people have suggested..he was still an asset on the floor and the Spurs' best lineups this season have involved Parker..Tony was having an off year, his injuries clearly affected him, so I think that speaks more on the poor play of our other key players earlier in the season..
-Manu is a completely different player than he was earlier in the season..he was admittedly struggling with confidence issues and was lacking the explosiveness we're seeing right now..his jump shot was also struggling..
Manu's improvement really has nothing to do with Parker being out at all..better stats due to more touches? yes..improvement in his game? no, nothing to do with it..
-Jefferson has played much better as well..this one could be related to Parker in a way, but Jefferson's assisted % has only gone up by 2% during this time IIRC..he's calling his own number more often, he's rebounding more, he's playing aggressively, and he's defending a lot better..this one has more to do with chemistry and the fact that he needed to step up with TP being out..
-The Spurs were finding a rhythm before TP was injured, winning their last 5 games with Tony in the lineup, all against quality teams..
The key is going to be Pop finding a balance between Parker and Ginobili's touches, while keeping Jefferson involved and keeping him in an aggressive mind state..the Parker-Ginobili part shouldn't be difficult at all since they have won 3 les together and know each other extremely well, but the RJ part should be interesting..
Another key is that George Hill has to stay aggressive..Hill used to constantly go soft when Manu was on the floor last year and earlier in the season, deferring his entire game to Manu..this season, he's learned to keep his aggressiveness high when Manu is on the floor..he needs to do the same with TP on the floor too..
The both of them can't torch them together i guess?
that pretty much sums everything up
Can't believe how much Parker hate is on this board.
That's been my thought for awhile now. If Tony could be healthy entering the playoffs, a post season with him, Manu and Tim playing well could be scary for the rest of the league. There are enough complimentary players on the Spurs for them to make a run.
Are they going to play with 2 balls? Either Tony Parker is the primary ball-handler or Manu Ginobili is. Plus, Bogans/Hill playing over Parker gives the Spurs an important edge defensively.
solid post !
The scarier thought would be that 1 out of the 2(Tony or Manu) is going to have the ball in their hands throughout the whole entire game.....
And out of the 4 games the Spurs and Lakers have played this year there has been a total of 0 games where both teams were at full strength... so I wouldn't put to much emphasis on what we have seen so far between these two teams.
Since about 2004, TP and Ginobili have successfully shared ballhandling responsibilities ... with Ginobili handling the ball more at the end of periods and in the fourth quarter.
Great stats TIMVP, but...
WHo's gonna be the sixth man? Will Manu return to the bench playing like this? I know it's for tactical reasons. But those reasons seem to have change.
parker- advantage- speed, one man fast break, shoots 15-20ft
sucks at- cant shoot 3s, not a good defender, coming of an injury(not the same 2-3yrs ago)
george hill- longer, better defender, mesh well with gino and , importantly can shoot 3point shot.
gino pick n roll duncan, drives finds george hill open at the 3point spot, hill for 3(hill can take it)
imagine- gino driving to the lane finds open tony. tony will usually be open 20ft but is too near. tony usually will just drive again forcing manu to back out and spot up.
those who thinks gino will still take control when parker gets back is dreaming. tony will definitly command the floor. manu again will just spot up.
book it.
those who loves parker so much just keep dreaming, parker IS NOT THE SAME 2-3YRS AGO! he is a step slower, liability on defense and cannot shoot the 3BALL.
he just came off an injury, do you think he will be a factor?
if i were POP, if george returns, continue to start george, manu, , dice, and duncan. and let tony lead the 2nd unit with bonner, RMJ, blair, and bogans
but tony is a bone head, he wont accept the bench role. tony iverson 2.0
no, Parker does not hurt these Spurs.Individual Player Floor Time statistics
Player Min +/- Off Def Net48 W L Win%
Ginobili 54% +359 1.14 1.06 +8.6 46 23 66.7
Duncan 62% +343 1.10 1.03 +7.2 49 22 69.0
Jefferson 63% +271 1.11 1.05 +5.5 48 23 67.6
Bonner 28% +227 1.16 1.06 +10.5 33 24 57.9
Parker 43% +218 1.10 1.04 +6.6 34 14 70.8
McDyess 41% +210 1.10 1.03 +6.7 44 27 62.0
Hill 61% +195 1.10 1.06 +4.2 41 32 56.2
Mason 37% +79 1.09 1.06 +2.8 38 32 54.3
Blair 37% +73 1.10 1.07 +2.6 35 37 48.6
Bogans 40% +42 1.08 1.06 +1.4 32 37 46.4
Finley 10% +12 1.12 1.13 +1.5 11 13 45.8
Jackson 0% +2 1.06 0.98 +3.8 1 2 33.3
Temple 1% +1 1.08 1.13 +0.8 3 3 50.0
Mahinmi 3% -2 1.01 1.00 -0.8 8 10 44.4
Haislip 1% -5 0.93 1.00 -5.5 5 5 50.0
Hairston 7% -8 1.12 1.11 -1.3 15 17 46.9
Ratliff 4% -52 0.99 1.12 -13.7 5 14 26.3
Legend:
Min = the percentage of the team's total minutes the player was on the floor.
+/- = net points (+/-) for the team while the player was on the floor.
Off/Def = the points per possession while the player is on court.
Net48 = the team net points per 48 minutes of playing time for the player.
W = number of games a player's team outscored its opponents while he was on the court.
L = number of games a player's team was outscored by its opponents while he was on the court.
Win% = the winning percentage for the player based on Wins versus Losses.
http://www.82games.com/0910/0910SAS1.HTM
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