Does Tony Parker Hurt these Spurs? Inside the Numbers

[DesignatedT]

Yup he sucks identically as bad as Duncan does at the end of defense. We've got Mr Bonner who's so damn great a specialist that easily kills the opposing team with his superb skills in offense, hence there's zero need to give a flying about our defense which used to be great in our champion years but has been ed to death since then.

please don't compare duncan to dalembert. ever.

[Mr Bones]

Dalembert is very weak offensively, but is a defensive specialist who could thrive next to Duncan and Splitter. He has 144 blocks this season-- that's significantly more than McDyess, Blair, and Bonner combined. He also has a rebound per minute rate higher than Duncan or Blair. That's no small accomplishment.

[Mr Bones]

Dalembert's bball IQ is so low it makes Nazr Mohammed look like Robert Horry.

You have a great gift for not actually engaging in basketball conversations. I never said Dalembert was a basketball genius or anything else. He's a skilled defender/shotblocker/rebounder who alongside Duncan and Splitter would address glaring weaknesses. Let's have an actual conversation about it rather than responding with posts like "LOL thats stupid" or "LMAO your dumb!" or "that guy sucks." Otherwise, what's really the point of all of this?

[all_heart]

Unless the Spurs win it all, trading Parker for frontcourt help makes sense. Sure it'd be nice to have the best backcourt in the NBA but not when Timmy is holding down the paint on his own (we dont know what to expect with Tiago or if he'll even be here next season). You need to sacrifice some of that backcourt talent to help Timmy out, Parker is younger than Manu and more talented than Hill...he's the only one that will net us an all-star caliber big man.



For alot of these peeps it really is about loyalty, which is understandable. But its the smart move though it really is.

I've been saying the same thing for about 2 months. I like TP, I respect what he does and the things he's done for the Spurs since he's been here. My biggest concern is TD, the guy needs help out there. There is no guarantees w/Splitter, even if he comes over. I think trading TP for an all star PF/C would help the Spurs. Anybody remember what a healthy Lakers front court looks like?! I don't want TD to go out losing to those bas s because he didn't have help. No Thabeet, he hasn't proven .

[stéphane]

Yes, yes. He dominated the immortal Boobie Gibson. He also was +24 for that series while Manu was +48, but whatever. I never understood the argument why Duncan got Finals MVP in '05 just because he was the team's best player, even if he didn't have the best stats, but everyone just smiled and nodded when Tony got it in '07. How does that make sense?

Also, if you remember the '07 playoffs at all (which you clearly don't), every critical road game the team won, they won because of Manu (Games 3 and 4 at Denver, game 5 at Phoenix, game 4 at Utah). But yeah, let's focus on the sweep at the end against a completely mismatched Cavs team.

roycrikside is reaching new level of stupidity. If you're saying such crap about the 05 finals MVP you obviously weren't part of this board at that time.
And concerning the second highlighted sentence, you suggest that the first three rounds have something to do with the finals MVP trophy? ...OK
Between being favorites in a series and sweeping their ass there's a HUGE difference. Tony was dominating this serie and getting to in the paint at will. Ever heard of team defense once in your life? The spurs do not run iso for their guards if you didn't notice. They run the pick'n roll how's the PG domination is solely linked to his defensive matchup?
Dude you should really stop making yourself look dumb and claiming that you know how the old posters here think when you weren't there and have obviously no clue.

[L.I.T]

Parker may shred the Western conference, but a better question is will his team win with him at the reigns?

Obviously not. They never have before.

[timvpimp]

Dalembert's bball IQ is so low it makes Nazr Mohammed look like Robert Horry.

Although Pop's strategies are often too complex for rednecks to digest well, I don't think a menial center also needs to learn so much before he can suit the Spurs system. Like you said Nazr wasn't a smart guy either but he still had a span of brightness with Spurs, and I believe Dalembert can too.

[L.I.T]

You have a great gift for not actually engaging in basketball conversations. I never said Dalembert was a basketball genius or anything else. He's a skilled defender/shotblocker/rebounder who alongside Duncan and Splitter would address glaring weaknesses. Let's have an actual conversation about it rather than responding with posts like "LOL thats stupid" or "LMAO your dumb!" or "that guy sucks." Otherwise, what's really the point of all of this?

1. Dalembert has such a limited basketball IQ that it re s the use of his natural gifts. He is a pretty poor team defender and, thus, would never be able to pick up, much less master, the Spurs system. Richard Jefferson and Antonio Mcdyess, two players who were well-regarded IQ wise, are still struggling to understand their place in the system.

Granted, he blocks shots, but that's about it. On a run-and-gun free flowing type team, he could be effective. In a structured system like the Spurs, he'd likely be pretty much worthless. I'm fairly certain that Mahinmi could approximate what Dalembert would bring to the Spurs. And I've never been much of a Mahinmi booster.

2. He makes 12.2 million next year. As much hate as there is on this board over Richard Jefferson, I would prefer RJeffs contract over Dalemberts.

3. Dalembert is inconsistent, prone to going long stretches where he is disinterested and distracted.

[Mr Bones]

Granted, he blocks shots, but that's about it.

I think you are ignoring the fact that he also rebounds at a higher rate than Duncan, Blair, McDyess, and Bonner. Also, the original trade idea included Jrue Holiday and Dalembert, and Holiday shoots 40% from 3 point land and is an excellent defender.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

So what you're saying is if we had David Robinson and got Tim Duncan we should have traded David Robinson

well played

[Cry Havoc]

yes, i think if we make the right moves we will be a better team without him. Of course AT this moment were a better team with him playing in some rotation as long as we have him of course we need him! but what im saying is we need to weigh our option s out with him for the overall future of this team.
He was built for a different spurs team, and i think hes over pop screaming at him like he hes a 19yr old rookie, and not getting the recognition he "deserves" i mean hes a different breed than the average spurs players. i used to stick up fot the guy when my friends hated him, and now i just cant believe some of the things this guy has said as of late.

Someone needs to say this:

You don't know about what a healthy Tony Parker can do. He would destroy George Hill in every facet of the game. Every single one. The sole exception perhaps being 3s.

In the playoffs, you want your best players on the floor. If Tony and Hill are both healthy, I want Parker getting 34+ minutes. He's a top 4 PG guard in the league when he's 100%, and you want to run him in as a sub for a guy who's just a "decent" point?

The "what have you done for me lately" at ude that so many Spurs "fans" have is pathetic.

[L.I.T]

I think you are ignoring the fact that he also rebounds at a higher rate than Duncan, Blair, McDyess, and Bonner. Also, the original trade idea included Jrue Holiday and Dalembert, and Holiday shoots 40% from 3 point land and is an excellent defender.

Jrue Holiday is a rookie and has not proven he can be a lead guard on a team. Essentially, you're advocating trading an All-Star top 5 point guard for an over-paid, inconsistent and ill-equipped center who can't play team defense and a rookie point guard who averaged 8 points, 2.6 boards, 3.5 assists and 2 TOs in 24 minutes a game.

By the way, his rebounding rate doesn't matter if he can't get on the floor because he can't pick up the system.

There are much cheaper options to approximate those two players skill sets than trading away a top 5 point guard and breaking up potentially one of the toughest and most versatile backcourts in the league.

[Mr Bones]

It's funny what an emotional issue this is for some posters... discussing a move that could potentially help the Spurs as a team doesn't make someone a Parker hater. I love Tony Parker, and think he's a great player. But the argument that Parker is a top 4 PG in the league kind of points to the issue-- those top 3 guys don't have rings because their respective teams have shortcomings in other areas. It has nothing to do with "hating".... I just don't think the Spurs as currently constructed have a good chance to topple the Lakers or the Cavs in a seven game series, and if they want to win another championship before Duncan retires, he needs help defensively on the inside.

[stéphane]

It's funny what an emotional issue this is for some posters... discussing a move that could potentially help the Spurs as a team doesn't make someone a Parker hater. I love Tony Parker, and think he's a great player. But the argument that Parker is a top 4 PG in the league kind of points to the issue-- those top 3 guys don't have rings because their respective teams have shortcomings in other areas. It has nothing to do with "hating".... I just don't think the Spurs as currently constructed have a good chance to topple the Lakers or the Cavs in a seven game series, and if they want to win another championship before Duncan retires, he needs help defensively on the inside.

So trading the youngest of your three All Stars makes a lot of sense...
You don't think we have a chance at beating the Cavs or Lakers? We haven't seen this current Spurs squad healthy (talking about the big three there) in playoff mode loose to these teams yet. How can you already dismiss their chances?

[Mr Bones]

Jrue Holiday is a rookie and has not proven he can be a lead guard on a team. Essentially, you're advocating trading an All-Star top 5 point guard for an over-paid, inconsistent and ill-equipped center who can't play team defense and a rookie point guard who averaged 8 points, 2.6 boards, 3.5 assists and 2 TOs in 24 minutes a game.

By the way, his rebounding rate doesn't matter if he can't get on the floor because he can't pick up the system.

There are much cheaper options to approximate those two players skill sets than trading away a top 5 point guard and breaking up potentially one of the toughest and most versatile backcourts in the league.

I actually like the Mayo/Thabeet option much better because both are locked in contractually through 2012. My main fear is that once Duncan is gone, Parker is too. Parker seems a little more enamored of glamour than Duncan or Ginobili and I wonder if he'll want to stay in San Antonio after 2011. What do you think the odds are of him staying, especially considering that he'll want something approaching a max contract? Is he the kind of guy you build a team around in the absence of Duncan?

[L.I.T]

I actually like the Mayo/Thabeet option much better because both are locked in contractually through 2012. My main fear is that once Duncan is gone, Parker is too. Parker seems a little more enamored of glamor than Duncan or Ginobili and I wonder if he'll want to stay in San Antonio after 2011. What do you think the odds are of him staying, especially considering that he'll want something approaching a max contract? Is he the kind of guy you build a team around in the absence of Duncan?

I think his preference would be to stay with the Spurs, if there is a plan in place. For all we know the Spurs plans may not involve TP. My instincts are that the Spurs are trying to build around TP on the fly.

Splitter, Hill, Blair, Hairston, Gist, Nando de Colo...all of the young talent they've been cultivating fits well around TP. But, the Spurs have left themselves an excellent out next season...only Hill/Blair/TD are signed past the 2011 season. If the talent acquisitions they've made don't pan out, I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see TD traded and TP sent on a sign and trade.

Also, don't forget the cap situation may change dramatically. The Spurs have also given themselves some flexibility. It could very well be that a max contract doesn't have the same hit as it does today.

Edit: For me, if the Spurs choose to trade TP it won't be for established stars. I could easily see them trading him later on to expedite the rebuilding process for young players and draft picks.

[G-Dawgg]

I'd take Dalembert on this team to bolster the interior defense ....for the right price of course!

[Josepatches_]

Those stats aren't perfect.

In the last month without Tony we had to play against Lakers (2 times),Cavs,Boston,Orlando....yes,we played against the nets too but overall it was the most difficult part of the season.I would like to see how many games we won against those teams with and without Parker.


Anyway those stats say that the team couldn't be worse without Tony.The fact is that the the number are a few better.

But I don't think those stats are the key to see how good the team is . You can win 90% of the games against teams with record <50% and you suck against the best teams.At the end those stats could be pretty good but the team isn't so good.

[romain.star]

Someone needs to say this:

You don't know about what a healthy Tony Parker can do. He would destroy George Hill in every facet of the game. Every single one. The sole exception perhaps being 3s.

In the playoffs, you want your best players on the floor. If Tony and Hill are both healthy, I want Parker getting 34+ minutes. He's a top 4 PG guard in the league when he's 100%, and you want to run him in as a sub for a guy who's just a "decent" point?

The "what have you done for me lately" at ude that so many Spurs "fans" have is pathetic.

+1
Great post as usual

[BillMc]

The truth is Pop is going to put Parker into the rotation and then starter's role. To me the question isn't so much how will Parker adopt to being a starter, but what will Hill and the other bench players be like without Manu?

[spursrocks]

i like parker BUT...
he is slower, not the same when he won his finals MVP. now that he is slower, he is a defensive liability.
he just came of an hand injury so his jump shot will be affected. and he cant shoot the 3.
he depends mainly on his speed, which he doesnt have right now.
SO..
continue to start Hill, gino, , dice, and duncan.
hill on the otherhand, can defend.(he defended kobe and kevin durant well, do you think parker can do that?)
hill can spot up for 3point shot. when manu drives he can find an open hill. but parker?
just let parker come of the bench. parker the 6th man.
if he cant accept that role, then he is IVERSON 2.0
period.

[Muser]

at people thinking Parker hurts the Spurs, he's capable of getting 20 + ppg on any given night whilst shooting 50% from the field.

[spursrocks]

yeah, when parker gets 20ppg a night, , hill and manu will score less. parker can score no doubt but he is a defensive liability.

[spursrocks]

when parker scores 20ppg bad news for gino.

[sonic21]

i like parker BUT...

right