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He needs to be at 0 minutes
saw the other thread and listened to STSA talking about whether Tony should be a pass first PG or a scoring PG. here are the stats from every game Tony's had 10+ AST and 20+ PTS.
here's what I gather. Tony IS NOT a pass first PG, that can be seen in the frequency difference between 10+AST games and 20+PTS games. however when he DOES have 10+AST the Spurs have a better winning %. but i'd take the 20+PTS games based soley off frequency.
He needs to be at 0 minutes
up
with Manu as the primary ballhandler good things happen more frequently and we win more games, period.
The silence here is deafening. No fanboys dare to even discuss? No rebuttal AT ALL?
Solid post, backed it up with stats, and nothing. You should have come off more like a Parker hater...this thread would be at 5 pages by now.
Rebut what?
He said Parker is not a pass first PG. He's not.
What did he say that is supposed to generate discussion. Tony Parker, Sr. wouldn't call Tony a pass first PG.
You guys are just so lost in all these stats and ill-conceived ideas about what a point guard is supposed to be doing. Since Pop took over coaching duties the Spurs have never needed a "pure" PG in the double digit assists sense.
It's pretty simple really. Tony Parker is most effective in a motion oriented offense. If guys are moving, making cuts, setting picks and screens, spotting up, etc. Parker is all you need from that position. If guys are just standing around watching, it's easier for defenses to key in on and control.
It's basketball, not rocket science.
The numbers produced by the OP say Parker the facilitator is better for the Spurs' win % than Tony the scorer. That directly contradicts every fanboy/girl who claims that Parker needs to score, score, and score some more if we are to win.
It sure seems like our guys have been doing more of that standing thing over the last couple of seasons...
That's a very simplistic analysis of the data presented.
You've already proven that you're smarter than that.
I do agree that Parker doesnt need Steve Nash assist totals to run our squad though. I just think if he facilitates, the points will come (not necessarily assists for tony though).
The Spurs are unbeatable when Parker is penetrating at will and the offense is swinging the ball around looking for the best possible shot. I love watching opposing defenses scrambling around trying to defend that.
I'm not contending that really, but he is. I am just suprised no one is discussing it further. He does have stats, and some folks seem to love stats.
And thanks for the compliment sir
I think when this is happening we are unbeatable...I hope we get a healthy Parker who can be all things to all people (yeah, its a little unfair) before our season is over.
I still don't see anything debate-provoking in the OP.I'm not contending that really, but he is. I am just suprised no one is discussing it further. He does have stats, and some folks seem to love stats.
And thanks for the compliment sir
If someone had asked me, in advance, to guess whether the team's winning percentage would be higher in 10+ assists games or 20+ points games, the answer is obvious.
I wouldn't conclude that increased assist totals for Tony in a set of games proves that he was more of a distributor in those games. I would work from the assumption that Tony's style of play is, relatively speaking, a constant. I would assume other factors account for the greatest portion of the variation.
Agreed 100%
Rofl Tony isn't a pass first point?
Thanks dr Naismith
In our championship years, the plays and ball went through Duncan. He is an amazing big in that he can see the court through a coach's eyes and almost direct the movement and plays from the post with his passing.
Once Pop quit calling plays and 'gave the reins' to Tony, his natural inclination as an excellent one on one player and scorer led to the ball mostly in Parker's hands, looking for a one on one or pick and roll so he could use his undeniable scoring ability.
Ever notice that with Parker, the pick and roll simply becomes the pick and drive? I'm not saying he isn't an effective scorer that way, but he really doesn't look for his teammate rolling to the basker either.
He became our leading scorer--but in the crunch at the end of the games, Pop always wanted the ball in Manu's hands and not Tony's. Why? Clearly our leading scorer isn't quite what is wanted when more options are needed. Unlike Kobe, he isn't our 'go to' guy.
I look at Tony and see the ghost of Steve Francis--known in Houston as Stevie Franchise until his MO became a liability--another player with undeniable scoring skills whose point guard play was similar--a scorer and not a floor general. He'd also Dribble around looking for scoring opportunities on one-on-one situations or pick and rolls. If all else fails, at the last few seconds on the clock kick the ball out to a half-asleep wing and expect him to hit a spot-up 3. It actually works when the 3s are going down.
I don't hate Tony Parker. I love him. But that doesn't mean I can't see the way our team play gets skewed when he's running the show with the reins in his hands. I think we'd become a much better and more balanced team with Pop directing the plays.
With the ability to involve more players and become better balanced, we'd also become much more difficult to defend. On the nights when teams take away the lane so Parker can't drive, we stagnate because the ball is in his hands while he still tries to do what he does best.
Manu in the same backcourt can ease a lot of these problems, because he is a better passer and frankly has a better eye for the defensive situation on the court than Parker. Tony won't ignore him and will give up the ball to Manu. He won't do that with anyone else on a regular basis IMO.
So here are two solutions to making the Spurs team play better. Both hinge on Pop.
1. Start Manu with Tony.
2. Pop takes the reins back and calls the plays.
That's the way back to championship play on offense.
Of course our win % is higher when TOny's assists are higher. When he penetrates and kicks, he only gets an assist if the player knocks down the shot. More outside shots knocked down generally means more likely to win the game. Also, players are more likely to knock down shots against lesser opponents, again meaning its more likely the Spurs will win. ALSO, better teams cut off passing lanes better meaning Parker will have a tougher time finding open players against the best teams, meaning his assists will be lower, and since its a tougher team, their win % will go down.
WAYYYYY too many variables to claim that Parker has to be a pass first pg. The TP of 2006-2009 is what we need.
Your post is really solid but I terribly doubt about the validity of your last sentence.
Our major problems towards winning another championship were :
1) a healthy big three
2) an ineffective team defense (see perimeter stopper (lack off))
3) role players who couldn't it a shot if 1) was true
I'm more and more amazed at people who keep talking about our offense. Our offense is way better than most of our championship years. Our weakness these days is that we do not have Bruce Bowen anymore and that our team rotations are weaker every year. If we're not able to pull stops when we want we ain't going nowhere in the playoffs.
Spurs win 3 championships w/ Tony Parker playing well..../thread
Jesus, why all the Parker hate, he was 2007 Finals MVP... o?
Manu and Tony are both great players, we are fortunate to have them both.
People are talking about the offense on this thread because that is the subject of the OP. I talk about defense a lot and yes, it is a glaring issue this year. I am a firm believer in the good defense leads to easy offense philosophy.
Yeah, I wasn't bashing the OP at all. Just stating the fact that most of the talk is about offense when we should seriously look at the other side of the court. During the last lakers win, what struck me was our physicality and the way we competed on D more than anything else.
The Spurs played great D in those wins against Boston, Cleveland, Orlando and LA. Unfortunately, it still a little too inconsistent and not "championship" level yet. Here's hoping they pull it all together right on time.
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