Marc Stein: "Jefferson Gets A Failing Grade"

[m33p0]

a bad fit maybe but that's no excuse for meekness.

[Big P]

rj= same different day.....experiment=FAIL

[Cane]

So why the you traded for him???????????????????

If you know a player doesn't work on a certain system why try. Maybe we could get something better with those expiring contracts

Because it looked great on paper.

Unfortunately the Spurs as a team fell off defensively. Great defense creates easy offensve which would have made a lot of opportunities better suited to RJ's style. RJ certainly doesn't help when it comes to defense but if the Spurs defended like their championship years he'd have an easier time.

[HankChinaski]

The fact he is considering opt'ing out of his contract I think improves his chances of getting traded. Work out a deal and then possibly new organization works around with him opt out with them so he can pursue something FA or resign new deal with said team. I'm dreaming more or less but that would be something nice especially if we end up taking a contract a team isn't fond of but a player we have interest in.

[rayray2k8]

This thing is a few months too late.. Marc Stein fail.

[Spurologist]

We'll see what RJ is made off in game 2. He's been called out by everyone imaginable.

[sammy]

What I don't understand is why the Spurs gave up Theo Ratliff? We really need a big to help with rebounding and we let him go? Damn you Pop! He's really playing well for the Charlotte Bobcatters!

[Blackjack]

I agree with all that, and if the Spurs were acquiring RJ with the intention of making him their #2 or #3 guy I'd have had a big problem with it. But they weren't. They were looking for a #4 guy. Yes, the contract was ridiculous, but that ridiculous contract was the only reason the asking price was so low.

The post wasn't about his salary, it was in response to this:

Again, hindsight. No doubt, the trade didn't work out and the Spurs are paying a heavy price for that. I just take issue with the notion that the Spurs should be faulted for not knowing how this would work out ahead of time, especially considering how everyone, including all the experts and fellow GMs, coaches and other insiders were universally agreeing how great a deal the Spurs had made.

As for the whole "system" arguement, I think that's another point that's being overblown. Yeah, RJ is at his best in transition. Still, I don't think it's smart to just not trade for a guy because he's played his whole career in a different system. I sure as wouldn't let the fact that David Lee played for Mike Antoni stop me from getting him just because the knicks don't play the same style as the Spurs do. If you look at the numbers at the time of the trade RJ was still a guy who shot the 3 well and had the ability to get to the free throw line.

Obviously things didn't work out and I'm 100% for cutting ties with him this offseason. I just take issue with saying the Spurs should have known this would happen.

RJ has never been, and will never BE a STUD in the NBA. On most teams, he'd be a complementary 2nd or 3rd option. On the Spurs, you could literally watch his scoring drop to about 12-13 points as the #4 banana. Way too much money for that.

I've always categorized RJ in that Shawn Marion box: he's not a guy who can lead a team or even take over a game. His game is WAY to dependent on other people. He's never going to put a team on his back and win a series for you. He can't create. He literally needs to be spoonfed his offense. With that in mind, 14.6 million is WAY too much cap money to spend on him. He's not a difference maker, but he's making difference maker money. That's slow cap death. There's a reason NJ dumped him and MIL is looking to do the same.

While the trade may have seemed to be a no-brainer, value-wise (talent given up to talent obtained), the fit was anything but. And the point isn't to call you or anyone out ... it's just pretty mind-boggling to think people that get paid to do this for a living (whether it be in a front office, in the media or otherwise) wouldn't have had the foresight.

But maybe the Spurs did; cir stance and desperation has a funny way of making long odds look decent.

[DesignatedT]

No excuses for RJ anymore. Im not buying this system bull . Put up or Shut up RJ. you ing pussy.

[ffadicted]

It's just sad to see Caron adjust so well to a completely new system and team, and RJ fail so badly, when they're both so similar

[Blackjack]

No excuses for RJ anymore. Im not buying this system bull . Put up or Shut up RJ. you ing pussy.

Where there's a will ... there's a way.

[jdev82]

$15 million dollar Udoka.

udoka was better.

[jdev82]

i think its time to bench his ass and actually make him earn his minutes.

[jdev82]

start blair at the 4 so he can score on dirk, tim at center, bogans at 3, manu and ghill or tpark. jefferson can have scraps from the table

[Blackjack]

It's just sad to see Caron adjust so well to a completely new system and team, and RJ fail so badly, when they're both so similar

Butler's a damn good basketball player when he's right. He's been one of my favorite non-Spurs for a while now and it kills me that he landed with the Mavs.

Other than toughness, a great mid-range shot and an ability to be a factor on the court, regardless of whom he's surrounded with, those two are one in the same.

[Killakobe81]

If you guys had gotten Caron instead of RJ and Mavs had RJ you guys are up 1-0 right now ...
everyone talks about Dirk but dirk scored 36 and Tim 27 -9 no bigie dirk is a scorer

But caron got what 22 to RJ's 4?!!!! R you serious?! that is -18 at SF for one of the highest paid players on your roster ... that can not happen if you plan to win some games this series.

even marion outscored him 9 to 4

[Blackjack]

start blair at the 4 so he can score on dirk, tim at center, bogans at 3, manu and ghill or tpark. jefferson can have scraps from the table

What has SpursTalk done to me?

I can't see that without thinking of the poster instead of the player.

[Big P]

We'll see what RJ is made off in game 2. He's been called out by everyone imaginable.

Everyone has been saying the same thing all year long..let me save you some time..rj is not made of anything that can help us win...he's not gonna "sack" it up now because Pop called him out..he will benefit us as a team when he is traded or bought out.

[vander]

what "bad contracts" out there might we be able to trade RJ's expiring for?

I don't follow other teams too much, is Philly still happy with Igoudala? what about Hamilton from Detroit?

IMO we won't want to re-sign RJ when his deal is up, and we won't be able to sign anybody else for more than the MLE. we'll need to trade RJ for a long contract that some other team want's out of...

[SPURSCHAMP]

Jefferson did suck even Mason could o gotten more in 32 min going probably 1/5 from 3 and 2/14 field goals

[pjjrfan]

Considering how the Spurs were clueless in defending Dirk in that epic WCSF series in 2006, and considering how the Fakers upgraded and "lengthened" their frontline in 2008, it's obvious that the Spurs have needed to add length to their frontline for some time now. That said, it's inexcusable to me how the FO has failed to directly address this deficiency all this time. For this post, I'm electing to ignore Splitter because he's not here, which makes him the proverbial "bird in the bush". He doesn't count, since he's not here - meaning he can't help.

There has been ample time to either draft, acquire, develop or trade for a big that could provide adequate help to, not only help defend a player like Dirk, but also provide some relief Duncan. Many of us ask the question, "where's Ian?" Pop hasn't done himself, his team, or this kid any favors by stunting the development of this kid, by icing him to the bench for most of the season.

Meanwhile, Pop insists on countering with his usual series of small-ball lineups featuring a collection of inferior PFs and SFs, who masquerade as 5's.

Back to the point of the thread, I hold out absolutely no hope for RJ. By now, if we've not seen a pulse from him before, we're not going to see one now. Chalk that acquisition up as a failure.

I was arguing the same point last night with my family as I watched Bogans, Bonner and McDyess being manhandled by Nowitski. It's been like 5 years now that even Bowen was finding it hard to defend Nowitski and that issue has never been addressed. Sefolosha, Ariza, Pietrus, a bunch of 6-7 to 6-8 guys that are athletic and long and we keep getting 6-5 and under, Mason and Bogans have experience but are not very athletic, man, I was so excited thinking that Hairston had beaten out Bogans during the preseason only to see him shipped out to the D League, now he's sitting in a suit. And even if he had been in uniform he has missed out on a full season where he could have been learning our system and getting a feel for the NBA, the same probable goes for Ian. Still, I think this team can beat the Mavs, but guys like RJ have to step up and be contributers not spectators.

[HarlemHeat37]

When the Spurs acquired RJ, they were banking on his shooting improvement..I wrote a long post about this a few months ago with numbers and everything, but I'll summarize the parts I remember here..

Jefferson shot 47% off jump shots last season, IIRC..when you consider the volume, it's by far the highest of his career..he shot 40% from 3s as well..this season, he's shooting 40% off jump shots and 32% from 3s..a 7% decrease in general and an 8% decrease from downtown..

While I don't believe the Spurs were trying to make him a spot-up shooter, I'm sure his shooting "improvement" certainly had a lot to do with why they acquired him..RJ shot A LOT more jump shots last season and had to create much more of his own offense, yet his jump shot % was MUCH better last season..

It's safe to say that his shooting last season was an anomaly..the Spurs FO did up by acquiring him since the fit was questionable either way(I was happy with the deal though, considering what the Spurs gave up..I also assumed Jefferson had another gear since he had been playing on ty teams the 2 previous seasons, and assumed that the Spurs' coaching had better plans), but they certainly didn't expect Jefferson's jump shot to disappear after last season's improvement..

Hopefully he can be packaged this off-season for an Iguodala-type..Iggy will have to adjust as well and could have some problems here too, but he creates offense better than Jefferson and he's a much better defender..he's more ideal to help the scoring droughts here..hopefully Philly still wants to ship him out..

[sefant77]

I dont see Iggy going to the Spurs.

It will be either Iggy+Brand (Spurs wont have the contract to match brand) or its Iggy for expiring and great talent/picks.

[murpjf88]

Oh come on! Is it fair to dump on RJ after one playoff game. Sure, he was a disappointment in game one, but you've got to believe that he's going to turn it around for game 2. He was just starting to come into his own before the playoffs, now , you just have to give him a chance. I know for a fact he'll pull through because thats the kind of player he is. You just have to take a leap of faith.

[sribb43]

RJ playing with spurs fans mind saying he might opt out...no way he passes on 15 mil guarenteed for mle deal. Based in his play this season, teams won't be throwing $$$ at him with all the other big FA