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lol Earl Clark
PG: Mo Williams (30)/Delonte West (15)/Daniel Gibson (3)
SG: Anthony Parker (25)/Delonte West (23)
SF: LeBron James (40)/Jamario Moon (8)
PF: Antawn Jamison (30)/J.J. Hickson (15)/Anderson Varejao (3)
C: Shaquille O'Neal (25)/Anderson Varejao (23)
Frankly, our backcourt- with the exception of Delonte, of course- is weak sauce. We'll need to avoid a team like Charlotte that can expose this weakness in the early rounds.
lol Earl Clark
I think there's a reason Earl Clark doesn't get off the bench for Phoenix. Even if he had been capable of contributing his rookie year, it's too late for that now.
Carlisle 2nd best coach in NBA behind Larry Brown
You're talking about the 11th man on the roster who sucked ass in what little game action he saw this year, and a rookie that is completely unprepared for playoff basketball:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...clarkea01.html
Your 11th man is not the difference between winning and losing a game, much less the series.
Barea and Beaubois are both problematic options as the backup 1. Barea because he sucks, Beaubois because he's a rookie that hasn't learned how to play the position yet. I'd like to see RB get more minutes at the 2 alongside Kidd at the expense of Terry, but both JJB and RB are sucky backup PGs.
JJB gets more backup PG minutes than Roddy because he's a veteran that had some small measure of success last year against San Antonio, whereas Roddy hasn't. Coaches pretty much always trust vets over rookies that didn't play at all in the regular season.
Fish - 32
Kobe - 38
Artest - 40
Pau - 40
Andrew - 36
Odom - 36
Shannon - 16
Farmar - 12
Sasha -
MBenga - 49 MPG!!!
What conclusions can you draw about the 14th overall pick that can only get garbage minutes? I know the Suns would not have won last night if you had given Hill and/or Dudley's minutes to Earl Clark. Basketball reference tells me that Clark can't shoot, can't rebound, can't protect the ball, is a decent passer, is a good shot blocker, but a bad defender overall (which is not surprising for a rookie who hasn't played meaningful minutes). Is your argument that Earl Clark now deserves a spot in the rotation at the expense of the guys who got Phoenix where they are, and by doing so that increases Phoenix's chance to win the series?
You can't give a rookie 300 minutes of garbage time and then expect him to come in and contribute in a playoff setting. We're not talking about Tyreke Evans or Brandon Jennings that are better and played starters minutes all season long. Even in the case of Roddy Beaubois you're talking about somebody who did most of his damage against lottery teams and was pretty meh against most good teams he faced.
Where have I "hated" on John Hollinger? Hollinger is right if he says that the Mavs W-L record is too high for their point differential and that their mid-season trade probably isn't going to vault them past the Lakers and Cavs. He's wrong if he insists Dallas isn't as good as Charlotte or Miami, which is what his power rankings formula says.
Last edited by Findog; 04-19-2010 at 10:37 PM.
Garbage time is very difficult to draw conclusions from. You have guys out there that are disinterested (they think playing in garbage time is beneath them), guys that want to use it to shot-hunt, etc. He failed to perform even in that limited setting.
Clark is a rookie with a defensive rating of 111. That means he doesn't know how to play defense. JJ Barea can't play defense, Roddy Beaubois doesn't know how to play defense. Teams just shoot over JJB. With Roddy, he's out of position frequently and falls for all sorts of tricks (watched TJ Ford of all people abuse him in person earlier this year). A guy like Hill isn't quick or fleet-footed enough to win his matchup with Batum, a guy like Clark is not going to know how to D up Batum in a playoff setting. Hill is a better offensive player than Clark. You think Dudley/Hill are going to shoot 3-16 every game?That he is more athletic than Jared Dudley and Grant Hill, therefore would defend Batum better than either one.
Dudley and Hill didn't shoot 20% from the season, and it's highly doubtful that they shoot 20% for the entire series. If they shoot their season averages, the Suns when the game. You can't isolate a one-game sample and use that as a trump card for your argument.I know that Batum would not have had a huge night if Earl Clark was guarding him, and I know that Earl Clark would not have shot as bad as Dudley and Hill (a combined 3-16). How you are able to draw your conclusion is beyond me.
Dragic got minutes this year. He also wasn't a rookie anymore. He had a year under his belt of scrimmaging with his teammates, being mentored by Nash, etc.Basketball reference said all those things about Dragic his rookie year because the coach was a munch who completely misused him, however, anyone watching the team who knows anything about basketball would have been able to see how Dragic could have contributed.
If Clark had been given a regular spot in the rotation, he'd be ready to contribute more now. You're arguing for a rookie that hasn't done anything except wave a towel all year long to step into the rotation.Earl Clark played point forward in college and was a good off the dribble player, this year Gentry has him playing as a spot up shooter, there really was no possible way he could have misused Clark any worse.
No, I watched the game. Hill has a better chance of contributing to the Suns NOW than Clark does. That doesn't make him a good player, but it makes him more worthy of minutes than Clark.I'm going to guess you didn't watch the game seeing that you seem to think Grant Hill is some integral part of this team.
What makes you so sure that he earned those minutes on a day to day basis during the regular season? Are you in the Suns training facility day after day? With a guy with his obvious skillset that in theory the Suns could use, why is he not playing? Is it because Gentry doesn't want to win?You can't give a rookie spot minutes and expect anything.
Amare giving a and playing for a contract >>>>>>> Carl Landry
Amare not giving a and going through the motions/Carl Landry: Push. In this scenario, Landry is a better defender and more committed to team goals.
Amare half-assing everything is still better than Carl Landry.
Yes, but not overwhelmingly so. If I'm a GM putting together a team and had to choose between the lineal descendant of Derrick Coleman and Carl Landry, I'll take Carl Landry, because Landry plays defense, has a much higher basketball IQ, is much tougher, doesn't whine about touches, and cares more about wins that stats. Especially when you factor in the salaries. I'd rather have the Carl Landry of the first half at that price than what Amare was giving the Suns before the All Star Break at his salary.
Of course, if it's between Amare the post-ASG beast and Carl Landry, Amare easily.
And given how important Amare was to the Suns success from February on, I'd say him getting owned by Marcus Camby last night was more important than Earl Clark not getting minutes over Grant Hill and Jared Dudley.
I didn't say he only played in garbage time this year. Did he not spend the majority of his rookie season on the bench and only getting spot/garbage minutes?
Yawn.Games like this are why I see value in Clark:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...911270MIN.html
I say Clark is not going to contribute more on both ends of the floor combined than Hill/Dudley on a nightly basis. Would he defend Batum better? Maybe, maybe not.If you are truly saying Clark wouldn't defend Batum better than Hill and Dudley can, you either don't know jack about basketball or are talking out of your ass about a player you've never seen play (the likely scenario).
The ?When you take into account how much of a pussified sack of Grant Hill has been in the playoffs his entire career, and the fact Dudley has never been in the playoffs before, it's highly probable they are both non-factors. Especially Grant Hill.
You're ing and whining about the 11th man on your roster not getting 10 minutes or so a game to check Nick Batum over Grant Hill and Jared Dudley when your best player got owned by Marcus Camby. If Amare plays like he did the final two months of the season, the Suns win this game fairly easily.If the Suns were ever able to do what they did during the regular season in the playoffs they wouldn't be the oldest tea in the NBA without a ring. When being unable to shoot your season average in the playoffs is a re-occuring theme with the system Phoenix runs, games like this aren't fluke bad shooting nights, they're typical playoff performances.
You're not familiar with the phenomenon of players improving on their rookie performances? Some guys wash out of the league because they suck. Other guys generally perform better as they learn the tendencies of other players, they hone their skills, etc.What miraculous event happened that made him look completely different than he did a year ago during this amazing "year of experience". Did Steve Nash mentor him on how to play great defense or something?
19, 7 and 4 on 56% shooting.What has Grant Hill ever accomplished in the playoffs that makes him worthy of minutes.
23, 7 and 5 on 44% shooting.
20, 7 and 7 on 46% shooting.
If you want to argue that he's a s of his former self, that's fine. But if you had ever watched a basketball game before 2000 or so, you'd know that he was on the cusp of greatness before he mangled his ankle. I guess that injury he suffered his final year in Detroit makes him a "pussy" as you call it.
Assembling an NBA roster isn't the same thing as fantasy basketball or a pickup game at Rucker Park. Would you rather have Carl Landry at $3 million a year, or Amare Stoudemire for $17 million a year when your owner tells you you can't go into luxury tax territory? Based on what Amare was doing before February, I'd rather have Landry. If Amare played like he had in the 2nd half of the season all the time, he'd be worth every penny of that $17 million.yeah, I'm sure you could find tons of NBA GM's who would take Carl Landry over Amare.
Some team is going to give Amare the max. We'll see if this is some sort of new, mature Amare or if he's just making a contract push.
Camby was the primary defender while Portland mixed up their coverages. Amare wasn't nearly aggressive enough. Man you've really got a hate boner for Nash/Gentry (not that they played/coached their best games either, but jeez man.)
35+ mpg for Hill, Manu, and Duncan.
30 mpg for Dice, Jefferson, and Parker.
20 mpg for Blair.
10 mpg for Temple and Bogans.
5 mpg for Bonner.
Hey, pisspot, what's up?
WOOT!
The point is Amare's drop-off from his regular-season performance is the most important reason Phoenix lost the game, not giving Earl Clark more minutes at the expense of Jared Dudley and Grant Hill.
He shot 6-6 in 12 minutes against a terrible Minnesota team. That means he deserves consistent minutes because of one good game?
Here, check this out:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...912140DAL.html
JJ Barea should be getting 26 minutes a game, EVERY GAME, based on this masterpiece he threw up.
Okay, guy who apparently starting watching basketball after 2000. Playing on a completely mangled ankle and jeopardizing your impending free agency because your team has no chance to do anything without you is a sign of not caring about winning. Makes perfect sense to me.Grant Hill is a proven choker who has never given two s about winning, evident by him signing with Phoenix over a contender last off season.
You'll have to direct that question to people who think Nash is the overwhelming reason Amare is as good as he is. Amare is an All-Star caliber player without Nash; he's also the beneficiary of playing with a great point guard.Why is it that whenever Amare plays well, it's because Steve Nash makes him, but when Amare sucks, it's because he's a lazy jungle monkey who doesn't care? You give Nash so much credit for his success, and never give him any blame for Amare's failures. I don't get it.
Here's one example:No, I'm not familiar with players going from hole scrub to potential future all star in 1 year.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...harride01.html
Couldn't gain the trust of his coach to play meaningful minutes in his rookie year; was an integral part of his team's run to the Finals his second year.
Earl Clark is a rookie that hasn't done . Sorry to break it to you, but coaches are going to play veterans over rookies that only got spot duty because they trust those guys to run their sets, keep their poise and make good decisions in the pressure of the playoffs. Grant Hill was a slightly below average basketball player this year. In the limited minutes he got, Clark was a scrub. On a night to night basis, Hill/Dudley aren't going to shoot so poorly from the floor.Earl Clark has advanced past the 1st round as many times as Grant Hill as, and didn't even need to complete 1 full NBA season to do so. That's how awesome he is compared to playoff juggernaut Grant Hill.
But what should I expect? You were crowing in the second quarter of the Dallas-San Antonio game about how "terrible" Marion was playing. 9 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks. In other words, he did his job.
Last edited by Findog; 04-20-2010 at 09:11 AM.
In January Landry did deserve an All Star berth over Amare. He was the best player on a Houston team that was surprisingly staying in the playoffs over Amare averaging 21/7 for a team that had more talent around him. It's the All Star game. It's a prestige and honor thing to get to go. I didn't say Landry deserved to make second-team all NBA over Amare, which is more about recognizing who the best players are.
Salaries always have something to do with it. We're not picking up sides at the YMCA or drafting in a fantasy basketball league.
You didn't answer the question: What is a better value? Landry for $3 mil or Amare for $17 mil? If Amare plays like he did after February all the time, he easily earns that salary and it's a no-brainer. Based on his injury history, lack of bball IQ and obsession with stats, I'd be leery of giving him the max. Did a lightbulb finally turn on over his head the last three months and he "gets" it now, or is he making a contract push? We'll find out next year when he's playing for the Knicks.I'm sure it's just coincidence Amare gets paid so much more than Landry. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with Amare being way better than Landry, no, the salary fairy just decided to give Amare 14,000,000 more than Landry because she felt like it.
Dirk went from 25/9 on 50% to 19/10 on 38%. IIRC, Howard was the only Mav who maintained or bettered his season averages against the Warriors. So yes, Dirk not maintaining that 25/9 on 50% is the main reason Dallas lost.
Howard regular season - 19, 7 and 2 on 46% shooting.
Howard against the Warriors - 21, 10 and 3 on 52% shooting.
My understanding is that his wife didn't want to leave Phoenix, but I could be wrong. These guys want to win, but there are other factors involved. Jason Kidd resigned with Dallas when they were considered pretenders instead of signing with Bron-Bron in Cleveland. Does Jason Kidd not care about winning?Do you think resigning with a team that most considered at the time to be a 1st round exit so you can have fun rather than sign with a contender is a sign of someone who cares about winning?
You asked what Grant Hill had ever done in the playoffs. I answered you.And yeah, I started watching basketball in 2000. I don't see how Grant Hill's career a decade ago is relevant to this Suns series.
Maybe you should bite your tongue until the series is over? You might be vindicated before this series is over, you might not. Just like Amare's post ASG explosion makes a comparison to Landry look silly in retrospect.At the time Marion was playing horribly. Idk what I should expect from someone who thinks Carl Landry belongs in the same sentence as Amare Stoudemire.
I'd rather see Landry get rewarded and an invitation for keeping Houston afloat than Amare getting to go based on playing to 70% of his capabilities.21/7 sucks. I agree. Landry was putting up worse stats so he deserved the AS birth.
Durant's about to get the max when he comes off his rookie deal. Landry just had his option picked up by Sacramento if I'm not mistaken and is no longer on his rookie deal.Who is a better value? Kevin Durant at his current salary, or Lebron James at his?
Last edited by Findog; 04-20-2010 at 10:16 AM.
Yeah Findawg vs. DoK, some quality ering I've missed so badly.
Some of its on Dirk, some of its on Avery for having Nellie coach circles around him, some of its on Terry for having an awful series and not making Golden State pay for the double teams. I guess what I'm trying to say is that whether it's Amare's fault or not that he had a subpar game against Portland in Game 1, his maintaining his regular season production is more important to the Suns than the distribution of minutes vis a vis Hill, Dudley and Clark.
My understanding is that Hill's wife didn't want to uproot their kids from Phoenix. Throw in the fact that he was playing for a winning team and his decision is understandable. Didn't he turn down bigger money elsewhere to come to Phoenix in the first place when they were coming off that great season in 2007 and were viewed as legitimate le threats? Did he not care about winning then? I'd say Hill's decision was more about loyalty to the franchise and appeasing his wife than anything else.Dallas was offering significantly more money than Cleveland, Boston (at the time considered a contender) and Orlando were offering the same amount as Phoenix offered.
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