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lol everyone talked about how butler was such a huge upgrade..the only "upgrade" part of that deal was Haywood, who we barely even play. go figure.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/4...ig-part-of-the
He's basically Josh Howard with a better at ude in the locker room. He's got one year left on his deal, so the Mavs should be able to pair him up with Dampier's contract this summer.
So what's the theme of Caron Butler's season? It's very hard to function when you're dogged by resentment and dreams of personal success. Butler has moved on to Dallas, where he's now shooting more than Dirk Nowitzki and generally wasting possessions like he did in DC. His game has declined with age, sure, much like other 29-year olds who have been as injury-prone as him.
lol everyone talked about how butler was such a huge upgrade..the only "upgrade" part of that deal was Haywood, who we barely even play. go figure.
tough juice, brings much needed "toughness" to this dallas team. Its really tough to make contested long two footers and pass up open three pointers. Tough juice.
so get rid of him because he's confident in his abilities and doesn't put up with Gilbert Arenas' bull ? okay.
Comparing him to Josh Howard is ridiculous. Just because they both think they're All-Stars doesn't mean they have the same personality flaws. Josh was lazy, arrogant, and insecure. His so-called confidence was merely a defense mechanism to hide his insecurities.
Caron Butler is completely different. He's worked his ass off to get where he is, his confidence comes from being completely secure with who he is and how he's gotten here. You can't even begin to compare Caron with Josh.
Now Caron will definitely have to accept a reduced role in the offense next season. There's no doubt about it. If he doesn't want to do that, then make a move. But you've got to give him a chance to make that decision. He's always had a much higher level of maturity than Josh Howard ever had. Jerry Stackhouse accepted a lesser role in Dallas. I don't think Caron Butler has ever had anywhere near the shot-hunter, "out to get his" reputation that Stackhouse had. Give him a chance.
It's tough to see you're in decline until it's already hit you. That could be where all this early season talk came from. Jason Kidd talks in much the same way, are we gonna ship him out too?
And take a look at the numbers - Dallas Basketball just posted an article about it. The Mavs have played better when Caron gets more minutes, not less.
And any article that paints Gilbert Arenas as a victim in any way is laughable to say the least.
One last thing, Caron's been jerked around in Dallas way more than Josh Howard ever was. There hasn't been any instance of ego feeding or coddling with Caron. How do you think Josh would have reacted to a game 3 benching? We still wouldn't be hearing the last of his ing and crying over it. He would have pouted his way all through Game 4 too. There's no way Caron like being benched, but he was a professional about it, he accepted it, and then in Game 4 he tried to make up for it.
You may call it shot hunting, I saw Caron's volume shooting in Game 4 as a way of saying "Game 3 is in the past, I'm moving on and I want to give this team a spark on offense". It didn't work out for him, but again, comparing him to Josh is ignorant at best and completely idiotic at worst.
I agree with Monosylab1k. I hope mavfan isn't excessively faulting Caron. His play has gone up and down, but so have his minutes. And who'd have thought he would be benched an entire half in a close playoff game?
Blame RC before you blame Caron. He's been nothing but a pro this whole series, albeit a cold shooting one.
Yeah, Caron > Howard
I think if he is still around next year, him and Haywood both will definitely be a more efficient player after having a full camp and offseason to get used to his team and and for the coaching staff to figure ways to use their strengths more effectively. It's very similar to Kidd when he first got here. Kidd seemeed to play solidly and his stats seemed to reflect that, but in all honesty, you could tell he needed more time to get more in sync with his teammates. By next season, it seemed as if he had been here for years. Butler has some really good tools that will fit in with this team, especially his mid-range shot. I believe that he will be a much better fit by next year.
If Caron can get to the rim consistently he can be a huge plus for Dallas. He was huge in game 1, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him getting it going tonight.
Caron is a #3 option being asked to fill the role of a #2 option. He and Stevenson are owed $15 million together next year as expirings. The Mavs should be aggressive this summer in trying to find a true #2 option for Dirk (Josh Howard and Jason Kidd as injury All Star alternates don't cut it). If it takes Butler's contract together with Dampier to make that happen, I'm all for it.
You may have missed the part where I said he has a much better at ude than Howard. I never compared his character or work ethic to Howard. But on the court he basically is fulfilling the same role with about the same level of production he's a wing that takes too many shots given his lack of efficiency and takes too many contested jumpers versus driving to the basket.comparing him to Josh is ignorant at best and completely idiotic at worst.
But we can't question your opinion, since you called this series being 3-1 Spurs at this point. Just like we can't question when you said the Mavs and Nuggets were better than the Lakers and Gerald Green has what it takes to be a productive NBA player.
The problem is with the way this team is structured. More is being asked of him than what he can deliver. And I think he has more value to this team as a guy with an expiring contract than if they roll into next year asking him to be a #2 option.
Agree with mono. Caron has been a good teamate and professional. He still has done a 200% better job at integrating to his new team than RJ. I would take Caron over RJ in a second.
That being said, I seen Caron in DC and he is known for his inconsistency and often slacks off. He is also not known for stepping up in the playoffs. But I am sure Cuban knew that already....
How does that article paint Arenas as a victim? I've been following the guy who writes BulletsForever for awhile via RSS and twitter. I don't think he gives Arenas a pass for how their season imploded.
yup. It all goes back to Carlisle.
Yeah, he's a good guy, I thought I made that clear via contrasting him with Howard in the first post. I appreciate his team-first ethos. But we can't beat the Spurs when Dirk's usage rate is down from the regular season and Butler is taking contested step-back jumpers that he's hitting at a 39% clip. If he's willing to take a reduced role next year as a #3 option and we can go out and get an Andre Iguodala without having to pair him with Damp's contract, then I'm all for it. But I don't think the Mavs should be married to this guy.
But you've got to know Butler is more capable than he's shown in this series. It's hard getting thrown into the fire inconsistently against the Spurs, who honestly have overachieved by a considerable margin relative to most of their regular season.
Carlisle sitting him was a wrong move. Some of those Wizard experiences must get burned out the hard way so he can grow into what the Mavericks need him to be.
well then I guess the mistake is on the mavs office. Because that is exactly been Caron's game for years.
And give a little credit to the Spurs and their D.
IMO the biggest factors to Spurs beating the Mavs SO FAR are:
1. Carlisle being outcoached
2. Spurs guards destroying mavs guards
3. Mavs can't guard the pick n roll
4. Duncan/McDyess vs. Erick/Brendan
Unfortunately for Butler, he has had to play out of position here in Dallas. Funny how both Butler and JHo struggled this season by having to play SG. I put more of the blame on the front office and coaching staff for thinking these guys can play out of position
Butler still has as many as 3 games to prove he's worth a damn. IF he can get consistent floor time and make the most of it.
When I saw the le I thought "WTF, Mav fan wants to get rid of Cuban??"Unfortunately it turned out to be Mav fan not using punctuation. sb "Get rid of this guy, Cuban" not "Get rid of this guy Cuban."
Great article.
The Mavs did make improvements in their trades but unlike the Cavs have yet to find the best way to utilize their new acquisitions and depth.
However in the case of Butler it looks like you've got an overconfident shooter that hasn't come to terms of his decline. In this league there are a lot of guards that would probably be a better fit especially younger legs that can still drive in the lane consistently.
This is where guys like Manu sets himself apart from the rest when it comes to interview comments. He's about as straightforward and honest as it gets - Butler on the other hand coats it with his own spin and overconfidence of his abilities.
Its great to be confident but not to the point where you resemble Allen Iverson which Butler is on track to become as he gets older. No wonder he's been tossed around in the league and this kind of would make Jerry Sloan, Phil Jackson, or Pop's heart explode in disbelief:
January 20. By now, Arenas is suspended and the team is trying to fight on without him. They had just lost a close game to Dallas that ended with Butler having his buzzer-beating shot blocked by Shawn Marion. Flip Saunders storms into the press room angry as ever and had something he wanted to get off his chest.
Typically, Saunders comes out really quickly or really slowly. Usually, when he's angry, he comes out quickly because he wants to get the press conference over with. Tonight, he came out so quick that none of the beat reporters are in the room. It's just me and a couple other stragglers that rarely ask questions. Finally, I stutter and say to Flip, "So, about that last play."
"That wasn't the play we were supposed to run," Saunders said.
Bewildered, I asked the obvious follow-up question. "What play were you supposed to run."
"That wasn't the play we were supposed to run.
In the locker room, Butler is breaking his postgame routine, much like he broke the last play. Typically, Butler gets changed in the training room, taking his sweet time before coming out in his suit. He borrowed the act from former teammate Kobe Bryant as a way of presenting himself well. This season, however, he had been slower than usual on most nights, waiting so long that all the beat reporters have often left the locker room by the time he comes out.
On this night, though, he knows he has to face the music, so he comes out quickly.
"It was drawn up either to get myself the ball up top or get somebody coming to the corner. Obviously, I wanted the ball. I kind of had my mind made up of what I was going to do already, and I just mistimed it. Good defense."
"Unfortunately, it is what it is."
Someone else revealed that the play was supposed to be for Randy Foye.
So what's the theme of Caron Butler's season? It's very hard to function when you're dogged by resentment and dreams of personal success. Butler has moved on to Dallas, where he's now shooting more than Dirk Nowitzki and generally wasting possessions like he did in DC. His game has declined with age, sure, much like other 29-year olds who have been as injury-prone as him.
But this is not your typical decline. Much like Kevin Garnett, Butler has declined while kicking and screaming about the wonder days that were. He's the last person to accept the fact that he isn't the player he once was. He never figured it out in DC and he doesn't appear to have figured it out in Dallas. Worse, his decline was accelerated by lingering resentment of his co-star that only grew when that co-star started missing games. That co-star is now on a different team, but Butler still stubbornly pushes on, trying to show he deserved his past status.
And really, this is a story about how precious one's state of mind is in this game. Butler went from being one of the league's most unselfish and professional players to one with too big an opinion of himself that resented his teammates. It was a dramatic shift and it couldn't have happened to a more unexpected guy. If it can happen to Butler, it can happen to anyone.
But there's no denying it happened and that it helped torpedo a season that was supposed to be promising. There are lots of people who deserve blame this season. Caron Butler should be one of them.
By saying Arenas was suffering and frustrated by Caron, which is ridiculous. Arenas is the biggest undisciplined ballhog the NBA has seen since Iverson in his prime. Any shot hunting one of Agent Zero's teammates might have done with him on the court is just payback for what he's done to them for years.
And he makes it sound like a bad thing that Caron resented the attention and star status Gilbert had. Who wouldn't be resentful that their attention ballhog of a teammate who hadn't played any meaningful games in over 2 years is still being treated like the alpha dog on the team?
Im not sure how you can be so good at acquiring talent but can't seem to grasp the incredibley simplistic concept of getting a goddamn post presence. It doesnt matter how many jump shooters you have, with no post presence, you arent going to win .
So one post he's basically Josh Howard minus being head of the locker room party planning committee.
Next post he's basically Josh Howard, but his at ude went from better to much better, also remove any comparisons with character or work ethic.
Third post, the comparison of being "basically Josh Howard" was actually a contrast of the two, not to show their similarities.
Pick a lane...
The ? If you can't grasp that I never equated his at ude or work ethic with Josh Howard, then that's your problem, not mine. Stop grasping at straws.So one post he's basically Josh Howard minus being head of the locker room party planning committee.
Next post he's basically Josh Howard, but his at ude went from better to much better, also remove any comparisons with character or work ethic.
Third post, the comparison of being "basically Josh Howard" was actually a contrast of the two, not to show their similarities.
Pick a lane...
On the court, their roles and production are similar. This is what they did in Dallas this year, excluding each player's tenure with the Wiz:
Butler - .509 TS% and .464 eFG% with a 22% usage rate
Howard - .492 TS% and .430 eFG% with a 24% usage rate
Butler - 8.5% assist rate
Howard - 8.2% assist rate
Butler - 11% turnover percentage
Howard - 10% turnover percentage
They are both decent to slightly above average defenders. So Butler is a marginally better player than Howard given their similar roles on this team (wing player expected to be Dirk's Robin), while being a better person. He also has an expiring contract that the Mavs can package with Damp. It's worth exploring if he has more value to this franchise as at trade chip than bringing him back and asking him to be your #2 option. If you're taking issue or disputing that, then I don't know what we're arguing about.
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