Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Suns - Game 2

[vander]

You don't get to pick what reality is. But thanks for chickening out and making my point.



They cut down an 11 point deficit when he was out there, mostly by scoring inside, that is, his area of operation.
Again, you need to put down the Excel spreadsheet and watch the games.

no, I'm afraid you need to watch the games

so you're saying that while Bonner was on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 11? and that the +/- is just a lie then? who's creating their own reality now?

[benefactor]

It is what it is. It all goes back to the Spurs simply not having the intelligent role players they have had in the past...and the one role player who becomes the championship glue. Whether it's Horry, Bowen, Kerr, etc...a glance down the bench reveals that this player just does not exist on this roster. These role players are inconsistent on defense, too young/inexperienced, too offensively challenged, too soft or just plain mentally weak.

A glance at the other side of the ball reveals a Suns bench full of solid shooters that are all too willing to take advantage of this. Even if they play worse on the road and the Spurs role players play better it will still be almost impossible to overcome over the length of a 7 game series. As LJ said, some of the Suns more explosive players/shooters have yet to truly detonate.

I'm not going to say it's over yet, but the three major players behind the Big Three...RJ, Hill and Blair...are going to have to dig deep and play their ass off for the rest of this series for the Spurs to make it out.

[ElNono]

no, I'm afraid you need to watch the games

Hey, it's not me using the 'I don't remember' and 'I'll have to double check' here. I watched the game twice already and will probably watch it one more time tonight.

so you're saying that while Bonner was on the court, the Spurs were outscored by 11?

In the second quarter, yes.

and that the +/- is just a lie then? who's creating their own reality now?

We obviously outscored them by 11 in the second half while he was on the court. Since he didn't score a single point, he was certainly not the reason we did that.

Do you even know how the stats you're trying to bring up work?

[elec99]

Again a spurs game came down to free throws or TOs. TOs were even, but 15 pt differential on free throws? Dont care who you are, you cannot win a game with that differential. And I believe the difference is manu, when he's not driving, he's not getting fouled. Manu has to be scoring in the paint.

Remember game 3 or 4 against LAL, Brent Barry replaced manu. Barry easily scored 20+ but Barry's points are not the same as manu points. No one fouls Barry cuz he's on the perimeter.

I'm confident Spurs will take one at home, struggling to see if they can take both. But even if they do, you still have to win one in phoenix, and to do that manus gonna have to be driving in that game to bridge the gap between free throws. In lieu of not making as many 3 pointers, we need the free throw line.

[Obstructed_View]

This game, and this series, is simply the chickens coming home to roost for the Spurs. They've failed to develop and/or keep a competent backup big on the roster, instead opting to try to win games during the regular season with three point shooting. Consequently, when George Hill absolutely can't stay in front of his man the Spurs have to sag to help. When you have to bring a guard into the paint to try to help defend due to a complete lack of shot blocking the result is wide open threes. On the other end, they only have one player on the entire team who can hit a proper three pointer in rhythm, and he's been pretty horrible on individual defense.

Can the Spurs still win this series? Sure, if the pre-nosebreak Manu shows upTony Parker gets 40 mpg from here on out. Some sign of the defense that we saw a few weeks ago would also be nice. Pop's starting to flail so the players, as usual, need to step up and bail him out before he puts Richard Jefferson in at center again.

[sa_butta]

It is what it is. It all goes back to the Spurs simply not having the intelligent role players they have had in the past...and the one role player who becomes the championship glue. Whether it's Horry, Bowen, Kerr, etc...a glance down the bench reveals that this player just does not exist on this roster. These role players are inconsistent on defense, too young/inexperienced, too offensively challenged, too soft or just plain mentally weak.

A glance at the other side of the ball reveals a Suns bench full of solid shooters that are all too willing to take advantage of this. Even if they play worse on the road and the Spurs role players play better it will still be almost impossible to overcome over the length of a 7 game series. As LJ said, some of the Suns more explosive players/shooters have yet to truly detonate.

I'm not going to say it's over yet, but the three major players behind the Big Three...RJ, Hill and Blair...are going to have to dig deep and play their ass off for the rest of this series for the Spurs to make it out.

Exactly, we just dont have the bench player with ice in his veins and who can consitently knock down that open three or make plays on d.

[TampaDude]

Man, if the Suns can outboard us like this, just imagine how badly the lake show would do it.

+1 If we somehow advance, we'll get destroyed by the Lakers.

[Agloco]

LJ tell me you don't miss Finley right now

God damm it. As much as I hate to say it, yeah. Finley's absence is hurting us quite a bit. At least he showed up during the playoffs.

[z0sa]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still compe ive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

This man knows!

[Agloco]

Exactly, we just dont have the bench player with ice in his veins and who can consitently knock down that open three or make plays on d.

Yes, and then some. Not only did Bowen and Horry play good D, it was about keeping their man out of their comfort zone. You know, not letting a Dirk or an Amare get to their sweet spot in the first place. It's all the little things that matter, and we don't have those intangibles anymore. , even Barry and Kerr knew how to keep guys off their marks long enough to help out on the defensive end.

You take those things for granted until they're gone.

[sa_butta]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still compe ive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

I hope you are right, but if we do not win both of the next two games at home the series is pretty much over. Hopefully the Suns come here over confident... We just need to take it one game at a time.

ONE

[G-Nob]

Piss poor game management by Pop.
--Bonner, too many minutes, Dice, too little. TP not starting.
--Manu needs to come off the bench because he's trying to hard to get going early instead of getting the rest of his teammates involved first. Plus, the Manu/Blair combo works.
--I believe three back instead of four in transition works better and allows for better rebounding.
--The rotations are sharp and at times, lax. They must make the suns work for everything they get and there are just too many players open on the perimeter that bury them.
--You never realize the undepth of your team until you see the depth of another. Mason? Bogans? Please stand up.
--Spurs have been right there in both games and have squandered oppo's to steal both. I just don't believe this team has had an adequate amount of fear for los soles. Hopefully, they do now.

[sa_butta]

Piss poor game management by Pop.
--Bonner, too many minutes, Dice, too little. TP not starting.
--Manu needs to come off the bench because he's trying to hard to get going early instead of getting the rest of his teammates involved first. Plus, the Manu/Blair combo works.
--I believe three back instead of four in transition works better and allows for better rebounding.
--The rotations are sharp and at times, lax. They must make the suns work for everything they get and there are just too many players open on the perimeter that bury them.
--You never realize the undepth of your team until you see the depth of another. Mason? Bogans? Please stand up.
--Spurs have been right there in both games and have squandered oppo's to steal both. I just don't believe this team has had an adequate amount of fear for los soles. Hopefully, they do now.

Thats a good one for me, I notice we are so worried about transition d. that we get very few offensive rebounds. Phoenix gets so many 2nd chance points, 50/50 balls and long rebounds. It just seems we are not agressive to go after the ball the whole game. I did see the intensity during desparation time in the 4th, but it is too late there.

[MannyIsGod]

I know ST is it it's typical post loss meltdown mode, but I don't think you guys are in terrible shape. Sure, you lost twice in a row. But they were both road games. And the Spurs were, at times, still compe ive in both and even had opportunities to win the games. I fully expect a different vibe once the series gets to San Antonio. I think Pop will use the home court atmosphere as an opportunity to insert Parker back into the starting rotation and increase Dice's role. I'd expect the Spurs reserves (even Bonner!) to outplay the Suns reserves aswell. And I don't think we'll see the rebounding disparity the first 2 games had.

I know fans are reactionary and the Monday morning quarterbacking is going to happen. So go ahead and exhaust your frustrations. But I don't see any reason why the Spurs won't win the next 2. Keep the faith Spurs fans.

I'm fairly certain something like 8 out of 10 teams who go down 0-2 lose that series. There's an appropriate amount of fear here right now.

[sa_butta]

I'm fairly certain something like 8 out of 10 teams who go down 0-2 lose that series. There's an appropriate amount of fear here right now.

We were down 0-2 to the Hornets in 08....
However this is not your 2008 Hornets team...so yeah Im scared...

[MannyIsGod]

We were down 0-2 to the Hornets in 08....
However this is not your 2008 Hornets team...so yeah Im scared...

We we know the Spurs condition after that series as well. We'll see how it works out, but I don't see why anyone should be happy or even comfortable being down 0-2. There are positives, but there is no way they outweigh the negatives.

[florige]

Not trying to get ahead of anything by any means. But if we somehow won the championship this year I think it would be safe to say that this would had been def the hardest. Beating Dallas, coming back from 0-2 to beat Phx, beating LA, then on to play either more than likely the Celtics or LeCrab James.

[Josepatches_]

I'd rather rely on Parker being our three point shooter than Bonner.

He can do it.

He just needs to find that rhythm.

I'd rather rely on Duncan .2 of 2 against Phoenix in the playoffs.


If Parker's 3s is the only way to win these series then we are ed

[PDXSpursFan]

...
I guess the hope is that the role players do better work in front of the home crowd and the defense improves the more it see this unique suns attack.

+1

[polandprzem]

I'm sorry for not reading all the thread but I have not much time doing it now.
I've read two first pages though

To me it's unbelievable. There is mismatch in every ,matchup on the floor no matter what. Gentry had to study 1-1 matchups and bringing some catchy plays. Like losing guy on a screen and cut to the basket. Tim on isos etc.
Suns right now plays like a machine and while Tim is having a war on the floor, Nash is lying like on a sunny beach and resting his old bones.


Three guys had to step up like I said - Bogans Blair and Bonner. At first I thought that those guys can produce some quality minutes and rest starters. Then it occurred that Bonner is not hitting jack from his spots and Blair is outhustled on the glass.
It looked like the spurs players had no heart.
Dallas series was tough but we had 3 days to prepare for the suns.


Again with those pick and rolls. We getting destroyed. We should dominate the Suns but it's other way around. We had not much advantage while making this play- Suns were denying most of them.


Our spacing is one of the worst in TD era. Suns defending on 16 feet away from the basket and spurs can't hit bucket from 16ft out.
Demoralizing


No rebs, bad transition, treys[spacing] - where fricking mason was suppose to be our 3pt threat as well as Bonner. I miss Barry.

No firepower will bite us once again.

we are screwed. No bench whatsoever.

Wtf ?

[G-Nob]

What game were you watching? Manu had like 4 assists in the first quarter. He was getting Tim, RJ and Hill involved he only took 3 shots in the first quarter ( I don't count that full court 3 pointer he took with 1.2 seconds left on the clock when Bogans fouled Barbosa)

I haven't see so much hate for a player who took only 8 shots total while getting everyone else involved. Everyone is acting like Manu took 25 shots and never passed the ball. What do you want him to do when the Suns try to trap him? Force the issue and turn it over instead of passing it to the open man?

Its got nothing to do bashing Manu. Los Suns are obviously making a concerted effort of slowing him down. Its got everything to do with the spark he could bring as the suns starters start to wind down. The point is, TP must start to make Nash work and penetrate. One less scorer means RJ gets more involved with the offense with Manu on the bench. Bringing Manu in could also help in resting Duncan quicker.
Not making that adjustment cost Pop game two. Starting TP was a no-brainer to get the spurs off to a good start mentally.

[phxspurfan]

I don't really know why the media and so many Spurs fans thought this was going to be an easy series, no idea..a lot of people here picked the Spurs in 5 and whatever..

It was obvious in the series vs. Dallas that the short rotation and lack of 3-point shooting was going to haunt the Spurs, especially against a deep team like Phoenix..as I said last round, the Spurs fixed so many flaws to get to the 2nd round, but the most unexpected flaw is the one killing us..3-point shooting..in all my years as a Spurs fan, I can't remember the last time this was a major flaw..

Try 01-02 and 02-03 before we got Barry. Those playoff losses (especially the one against the Lakers where I think we got swept) were due to zero shooting around TD.

[NFGIII]

I had a thought about changing the starting lineup to this:

TD/Dice/Bogans/Hill/TP

So the 2nd unit would be:

Manu/RJ/Blair/Bonner and ??? Most likely switching from TP to Hill and leaving RMJ in street clothes.

At first this scared the crap out of me. I mean I actually thought of starting Bogans again! And in the POs? And it may be too late now to do this but this was our starting lineup when things started to click a couple of months ago. The only reason Manu is starting was due to TP's injury. If that hadn't of happened Manu still would be coming off the bench. If they lose game 3 or 4 then they have nothing to lose since the odds of teams coming back from either 3-0 (0) or 3-1 (8 out of 192 =4.17% IIRC ) are pretty dismal.

Or using Hairston in the second unit as Timvp suggested but RMJ is pretty much done in this series and forever in SA.

[dbreiden83080]

Spurs will win game 3.. I'd be shocked if they don't.. Game 4 will be a barnburner, and will come down to the wire. Gotta man up and get em both..

It's not like 2-0 is something we can't overcome. We came back 3-1 down on the Mavs in 06 and would have won game 7 likely had Manu not fouled Dirk. We came back on the Hornets in 2008 down 0-2 to win in 7. If we put the pressure back on the Suns to win game 5 in their place tied at 2, we can win this series. Right now they are flying high. But we come back big in SA and the "Can we really beat the Spurs" thoughts will creep into their heads..

[clubalien]

instead of playing bonner andblair at the same time. How about giving theo and blair soem time together