Real 9-11 Research

[Jacob1983]

Dumper, you crack me up sometimes.

I will wager something on it. If you are right about 9/11, I will reward you with a $10 dollar Race Trac gift card.

You think I am really hardcore about this stuff like you are? I stated earlier that I was 50/50 on whether it was an inside job. I never said I was 100 percent sure. I just think that it would be nice for Americans if they knew all of the details about what happened in NYC on 9/11. Do you know how much money the government spent on investigating 9/11? Not that much. They spent more on the war in Iraq and this ty Obama health care plan they did on investigating 9/11.

[ChumpDumper]

Dumper, you crack me up sometimes.

I will wager something on it. If you are right about 9/11, I will reward you with a $10 dollar Race Trac gift card.

It would have to be much more than that for me to actually bet my life.

You think I am really hardcore about this stuff like you are?

No, I said you are either ignorant or a liar. I personally think you are ignorant.

I stated earlier that I was 50/50 on whether it was an inside job. I never said I was 100 percent sure. I just think that it would be nice for Americans if they knew all of the details about what happened in NYC on 9/11.

Again, what details are you missing?

Do you know how much money the government spent on investigating 9/11? Not that much.

Tell me the total amount spent in all the investigations by all the agencies, not just the commission.

[RandomGuy]

Dumper, you crack me up sometimes.

I will wager something on it. If you are right about 9/11, I will reward you with a $10 dollar Race Trac gift card.

You think I am really hardcore about this stuff like you are? I stated earlier that I was 50/50 on whether it was an inside job. I never said I was 100 percent sure. I just think that it would be nice for Americans if they knew all of the details about what happened in NYC on 9/11. Do you know how much money the government spent on investigating 9/11? Not that much. They spent more on the war in Iraq and this ty Obama health care plan they did on investigating 9/11.

One of the interesting things about large-scale accounting is that any given financial statement or computerized general ledger system that tracks financial transactions is inaccurate.

One could, if one spent enough money, get more accurate financial figures, and more accurate pictures of all the thousands of transactions that go into any business.

BUT

At some point, all that money gets you less and less per dollar spent in terms of improving accuracy, i.e. "diminishing returns".

We have to accept a certain level of ambiguity, and accept that although we don't have exact information as to every little nit-picky detail, we have enough information to make reasonable decisions and that we have a reasonably accurate picture of what the financial state of the company is.

This is no different.

We spent a few tens of millions of dollars getting a pretty fair picture of the events of that day.

What would spending tens of billions more gain?

"10:42 Air traffic controller Smith scratched his ass, then went and got another cup of coffee."

We have a pretty good accounting now, if not excruxiatingly precise.

I have no doubt that some chunk of stuff was left out, as the Commission itself admitted that people giving accounts did a lot of "i'm going to make myself look as blameless for this mess as possible" spin. I don't think that the bits that are ambiguous really are "material" or that they really would change the overall picture of that day.

The thing about a lot of what the conspiracy theorists put out there is that it is so easily debunked with a small amount of critical thinking and research.

If you are 50/50 at this point, you probably haven't applied much scrutiny to the "truth" movement.

[Jacob1983]

So you're gonna tell me people can't question events in American and World history? Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter in the JFK assassination? The moon landings really did happen? The refs were great in the 2002 NBA WCF? Let the record be clear, I never said that I was 100 percent sure that 9/11 was an inside job. I merely stated that it's possible. From what I heard, I believe the amount allocated for investigating 9/11 was between 5 to 10 million dollars. If people don't want to hear 9/11 conspiracies then the government needs to reopen the investigation and prove without a doubt that America was not involved at all in 9/11. Even if it wasn't an inside job, there is a slight possibility that the government knew that an attack was going to happen but ignored the warnings and let the attacks on 9/11 happen anyways. That's just as bad as it being an inside job.

[ChumpDumper]

So you're gonna tell me people can't question events in American and World history?

You can, but for some reason you aren't. Here is your opportunity. What details are you personally missing about 9/11?

Let the record be clear, I never said that I was 100 percent sure that 9/11 was an inside job. I merely stated that it's possible. From what I heard, I believe the amount allocated for investigating 9/11 was between 5 to 10 million dollars.

Even for solely the commission, that number is incorrect.

If people don't want to hear 9/11 conspiracies then the government needs to reopen the investigation and prove without a doubt that America was not involved at all in 9/11.

So you demand they spend millions of more dollars to prove a negative.

Even if it wasn't an inside job, there is a slight possibility that the government knew that an attack was going to happen but ignored the warnings and let the attacks on 9/11 happen anyways. That's just as bad as it being an inside job.

Warnings were certainly ignored, but mainly out of stupidity.

Now that we have established that you are allowed to question the events of 9/11, what questions do you have about the events of 9/11?

[RandomGuy]

So you're gonna tell me people can't question events in American and World history? Lee Harvey Oswald was the only shooter in the JFK assassination? The moon landings really did happen? The refs were great in the 2002 NBA WCF? Let the record be clear, I never said that I was 100 percent sure that 9/11 was an inside job. I merely stated that it's possible. From what I heard, I believe the amount allocated for investigating 9/11 was between 5 to 10 million dollars. If people don't want to hear 9/11 conspiracies then the government needs to reopen the investigation and prove without a doubt that America was not involved at all in 9/11. Even if it wasn't an inside job, there is a slight possibility that the government knew that an attack was going to happen but ignored the warnings and let the attacks on 9/11 happen anyways. That's just as bad as it being an inside job.

There were enough pieces to put the puzzle/plot together, but no one person really knew enough to stop it.

That was bad, but fairly understandable, given the climate of the time.

I think it is entirely unreasonable to have expected so many parts of a rather scattered law enforcement landscape to really work together, based on the little bits and pieces that any one person/en y knew.

And, yes, the moon landings happened. But that is a different thread.

[Nbadan]

the evidence I have seen so far for the "inside job" is refuted over and over again by knowledgeable experts with nothing to gain. This topic is an insult. I have no doubt that Bush did not mind wasting American lives in a stupid war for his own interests, but I just cannot see him (or whomever) blowing up a building with thousands of americans in it on American soil like that.

....then you just don't know your history very well, the poor get sent off to war for the rich every generation, some bigger than others, no bigger than the war you are in at the time....poor dieing for rich...

Vietnam, WW1, WW2, down to tiny Granada was about the poor, broke man dieing for the rich...

Iraq, Afghanistan, South America are about the poor, broke man dieing for the rich...

You think these guys who make these decisions to send millions of people to war to kill millions of innocent people in the process so they can control resources give a damn about you or me?

[ChumpDumper]

....then you just don't know your history very well, the poor get sent off to war for the rich every generation, some bigger than others, no bigger than the war you are in at the time....poor dieing for rich...

Vietnam, WW1, WW2, down to tiny Granada was about the poor, broke man dieing for the rich...

Iraq, Afghanistan, South America are about the poor, broke man dieing for the rich...

You think these guys who make these decisions to send millions of people to war to kill millions of innocent people in the process so they can control resources give a damn about you or me?

You mean all that oil that Norway, Russia, Italy and Angola are now controlling?

[Nbadan]

Oddly enough, none of those videos show show to cut vertical columns with thermite.

Nor does it calculate just how much thermite would be necessary to do what CT'ers posit. (answer is: a lot)

Thermite is very cheap, and very efficient, so your 'how much' argument is weak..

Did you even watch the video? Thermite wasn't used to 'cut verticle columns'
it was used as a catalyst to weaken the vertical columns...your argument is that 'office equipment, fire and jet fuel did it' ..now that's very weak..

[Nbadan]

You mean all that oil that Norway, Russia, Italy and Angola are now controlling?

Weak.....who controls Iraq? you need to broaden your thinking....seriously..

[ChumpDumper]

Thermite is very cheap, and very efficient, so your 'how much' argument is weak..

That isn't an amount, dan.

How much?

Did you even watch the video? Thermite wasn't used to 'cut verticle columns'
it was used as a catalyst to weaken the vertical columns.

How was it held in place long enough to weaken a vertical column enough to collapse it?

[ChumpDumper]

Weak.....who controls Iraq? you need to broaden your thinking....seriously..

Who controls the oil?

Seriously.

[Nbadan]

What would spending tens of billions more gain?

..the truth...for the 9/11 families and the victim's memory I would spend a trillion dollars to know the truth...even if it was 19 Muslims and a guy in a cave with an Atarii who planned, trained and executed the attack..

[Nbadan]

Who controls the oil?

Seriously.

Who controls the flow of the oil Chumpy? Who controls the 'flow' of the oil in the region?

[ChumpDumper]

..the truth...for the 9/11 families and the victim's memory I would spend a trillion dollars to know the truth...even if it was 19 Muslims and a guy in a cave with an Atarii who planned, trained and executed the attack..

dan wants his theory investigated.

You obviously have some thermite based theory -- let's hear it dan.

[ChumpDumper]

Who controls the flow of the oil Chumpy? Who controls the 'flow' of the oil in the region?

Well, Iraq certainly auctioned off those contracts to those countries that aren't the US, so one would have to conclude it's the Iraqis.

[Nbadan]

We spent a few tens of millions of dollars getting a pretty fair picture of the events of that day.

No we haven't...we spent more money investigating a Presidential blow job than investigating the largest attack on mainland America ever...the Commission chairmen had to threaten Bush Administration officials so many times that the whole process turned into a farce....tapes, computer emails, and complete files were wiped clean..

[ChumpDumper]

No we haven't...we spent more money investigating a Presidential blow job than investigating the largest attack on mainland America ever...

What was the total amount of money spent on the investigation outside of the commission?

Give me a number.

[Nbadan]

Well, Iraq certainly auctioned off those contracts to those countries that aren't the US, so one would have to conclude it's the Iraqis.

..and one can see the billions of dollars in oil money at work in Iraq today, building roads, improving security, building a military - NOT!

That money is being sponged by the banana-democracy the U.S. put in there while they pump the Iraqi oil fields dry and rob the 'Iraqi people' of their national resources....

[Nbadan]

What was the total amount of money spent on the investigation outside of the commission?

Give me a number.

Who cares? Weren't there outside investigations into every conspiracy theory ever? Weren't millions spent there. None of these investigations have the power of the U.S. govt forcing reluctant conspirators to testify under oath...

[Nbadan]

Well, Iraq certainly auctioned off those contracts to those countries that aren't the US, so one would have to conclude it's the Iraqis.

How much oil was the U.S. getting from Iraq with Saddam?

How much do they control today?

[ChumpDumper]

..and one can see the billions of dollars in oil money at work in Iraq today, building roads, improving security, building a military - NOT!

You have a line on all the infrastructure, military and security projects currently in process or being planned?

Give me a link.

That money is being sponged by the banana-democracy the U.S. put in there while they pump the Iraqi oil fields dry and rob the 'Iraqi people' of their national resources....

Yeah, that's why they only awarded one contract out of the eight available in the first round of auctions -- they wanted to get that money as soon as possible!

[Nbadan]

You have a line on all the infrastructure, military and security projects currently in process or being planned?

...a fraction of the billions in oil profits the Iraqis should be making..your talking about one of the top three oil reserves in the world...

[Nbadan]

Yeah, that's why they only awarded one contract out of the eight available in the first round of auctions -- they wanted to get that money as soon as possible!

That's just what we know about...

[ChumpDumper]

How much oil was the U.S. getting from Iraq with Saddam?

How much do they control today?

You do know oil is a commodity, right? It is traded on a world market. There was no US embargo on the importation of Iraqi oil, ever, and there is no way to direct all that oil to the US.

That said, if you want to fix the amount of Iraqi oil going to the US at some percentage of the total for the sake of argument, it's probably back to the levels it reached before the US invasion in 2003, maybe higher.

I believe the goal of the Iraqi government is to raise production to pre-Iran war levels or higher.