Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Suns - Game 3

[gameFACE]

Maybe the Spurs didn't respect the Suns going into this. But the Suns have outplayed the Spurs every way imaginable. Defense, pick 'n roll, 3 ball. They are quicker to rotate defensively and to go after loose balls. The moral of the story is - the Suns are better. They want it more and like the Spurs with the Mavs in round 1, they are not about to let the Spurs eliminate them again.

[vander]

Nash(considering the cir stances)
Duncan
Stoudemire
Ginobili
Parker
Richardson

Not really much of an argument otherwise IMO..

Richardson 6th?

He was probably more important than Stoudemire, he hit every open shot he was given, created his own shot when necessary, and in fact, if given the opportunity, he could have probably driven the lane with more success than TP...

and don't forget, TD's defense was absolutely horrible, TD can't guard anybody or even play good help D anymore, this is basketball, athleticism and energy and hustle count for 95%, and TD fails at all 3.

[HarlemHeat37]

Richardson 6th?

He was probably more important than Stoudemire, he hit every open shot he was given, created his own shot when necessary, and in fact, if given the opportunity, he could have probably driven the lane with more success than TP...

and don't forget, TD's defense was absolutely horrible, TD can't guard anybody or even play good help D anymore, this is basketball, athleticism and energy and hustle count for 95%, and TD fails at all 3.

You aren't asking about the series though..you're asking about which players are the best in general and asking about the order in which they would be picked in as overall players..

If you're asking about which players had the best series, then obviously it's different, but then you're getting into an entirely different argument TBH..


Duncan's interior defense was clearly very good in this series..he averaged 2.6 BPG and he clearly limited Stoudemire compared to what we usually expect from Amare, and considering Amare was playing some amazing basketball coming into the playoffs..

Duncan's p&r D is no longer good due to lost mobility, everybody acknowledges that..the other criticisms about his D doesn't make any sense though..there isn't a C in the NBA, or even a PF, that could guard a PG outside, it's obviously a mismatch(especially when you consider it's Nash), and that's on Pop more than anything for his switching defense..

This is also due to the fact that the Spurs don't have any mobile big men to guard outside, which obviously should have been a vital need, since Duncan has been losing his mobility for a while now..

Duncan had a good year defensively according to the stats, and the Spurs' defense was 5 points worse when he was off the floor, the highest of any player on the team IIRC..

[vander]

You aren't asking about the series though..you're asking about which players are the best in general and asking about the order in which they would be picked in as overall players..

If you're asking about which players had the best series, then obviously it's different..


Duncan's interior defense was clearly very good in this series..he averaged 2.6 BPG and he clearly limited Stoudemire compared to what we usually expect from Amare, and considering Amare was playing some amazing basketball coming into the playoffs..

Duncan's p&r D is no longer good due to lost mobility, everybody acknowledges that..the other criticisms about his D doesn't make any sense though..there isn't a C in the NBA, or even a PF, that could guard a PG outside, it's obviously a mismatch(especially when you consider it's Nash), and that's on Pop more than anything for his switching defense..

Duncan had a very good year defensively according to the stats, and the Spurs' defense was 5 points worse when he was off the floor, the highest of any player on the team..

from my recollection, TD was rarely the guy guarding Stoudemire when Stoudemire took it to the hoop and missed, (or even made it)
TD usually got the easier defensive assignment, and even then failed, Frye made shot(s) over a lackadaisical closeout by TD in every game, and guards easily took TD to school every time he switched onto them, or when he came over as help D. sure TD got some blocks here and there, but that was when his defensive presence became a little too underestimated when guards thought that he was of absolutely no consequence...

TD rarely turned away anyone in the paint, while our guards were consistently turned away by any and all of the Sun's Bigs

[BackHome]

To be honest we just ran out of steam..........we don't have a bench or should I say that our bench sucked the last three games. Also the biggest point was that RJ didn't show up in the series he was our X-Factor who didn't work for us against the Suns.

I agree with the big man I have been ing for us to get someone anyone taller then 6'10 other then IAN!

Timmy has played decent defense but it takes more then one player to win a series.

[HarlemHeat37]

from my recollection, TD was rarely the guy guarding Stoudemire when Stoudemire took it to the hoop and missed, (or even made it)
TD usually got the easier defensive assignment, and even then failed, Frye made shot(s) over a lackadaisical closeout by TD in every game, and guards easily took TD to school every time he switched onto them, or when he came over as help D. sure TD got some blocks here and there, but that was when his defensive presence became a little too underestimated when guards thought that he was of absolutely no consequence...

TD rarely turned away anyone in the paint, while our guards were consistently turned away by any and all of the Sun's Bigs

-Duncan guarded Stoudemire more than any other big throughout the series..

-Obviously Duncan can't guard stretch bigs, which is why most people have said the Spurs need a mobile big man next to him..no-brainer, Duncan is obviously more of a defensive C nowadays..he gets exploited on the perimeter for obvious reasons..

-A guard always has the advantage over a big man on the perimeter in a 1 on 1 situation..this applies to the majority of big men in the NBA, not just Duncan..

-Duncan is averaging 2.6 blocks in this series and has clearly made a difference defensively, I don't know how you can say otherwise..you don't really have an argument here..saying Duncan only blocked shots because they underestimated him is a huge reach..

-The Suns bigs aren't doing much at all to stop the Spurs' perimeter players, they haven't been much of a factor defensively..the Suns are trapping and putting pressure on our p&r players out on the perimeter, as Dudley himself said..their perimeter defenders have done a very good job in this series, particularly Grant Hill, Dudley and Dragic..

They can also focus a lot more on stopping these aspects in particular because the Spurs don't have any 3-point shooting..they've been forcing guys like Jefferson to make outside jump shots, and it isn't working..the spacing for the Spurs is horrible, which has clearly hurt and put a lot of pressure on the big 3..

[Obstructed_View]

I don't disagree with your analysis here, but I wonder how much of this is just timing? If the Suns are really this good, they should wipe the floor with the Lakers, too. They should have swept a hobbled Portland team. If the Spurs were really this bad, they wouldn't have even made the playoffs.

I think we're worn down because of the injuries and they're playing out of their minds, which is not exactly the same thing as them being a simply better team. In years past, we could play better in the playoffs because we would add minutes to the big three and increase our efficiency thereby. Useless points to bring up, perhaps, but maybe it's just the fan in me.

That being said, I do like the grit of this Suns team, and if (when?) they knock us off, the 2nd best outcome of the playoffs would be for them to send Kobe packing.

Well, it's perfectly reasonable to point to the moment where Parker was injured as the turning point of the game as well. If the Spurs don't lose his aggressiveness, it's conceivable that no amount of heroics is going to bring the Suns back, and a 2-1 series is drastically different than a 3-0 series.

Perhaps timing is all that makes the Suns the better team for the moment, but the fact remains that at the moment the Suns are the better team. The difference between the two teams is not gigantic, but it doesn't have to be when one team is hustling for the 50/50 balls, has everyone stepping up when they need to and answering every challenge with one of their own.

[duhoh]

I'm pretty sure you didn't mean moore's law.

Moore's law is a principle in which Chip Technology(CPUs) Doubles every 2 years.

You're talking about Murphy's Law. Everything that can go wrong, goes wrong.

whoops ya got me. fricken network security class

[Pauleta14]

I'm not that upset about Spurs losing this series. Had Spurs won it, they would have been destroyed by Lakers in the WCF. Finally beating Mavs was great, losing in WCSF instead of WCF doesn't really matter.

Spurs need now to end their season decently. Being swept on your home floor would suck so they had to win game 4.

We must admit that we don't have a championship caliber team this year , for many reasons (RJ fail, injuries....)

We beat the suns in so many ways, so many times, that I call deal with it...

The Mavs series was a MUST WIN and that's almost "enough" for me this year!

If we can dump RJ this summer, we have a shot next year with Manu and Tony resting this summer...

[lefty]

To defend Phoenix's countless pick-and-rolls, Pop decided the Spurs should switch on all picks. The results were disastrous. The strategy forced Duncan and Blair to spend way too much time defending point guards. Once those guards got into the paint, the Spurs were forced to collapse -- which resulted in the Suns going 15-for-26 on three-pointers.

Great point

I remeber in the past that Spurs would rarely switch on the pick and roll, forcing Nash to throw unbalanced shots, or collapsing on Amare as soon as he received a pass from Nash - forcing a turnover.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I am still very confused as to why Pop thought switching would work.

Its a very shady coaching call.

[Manu-of-steel]

Phx has a very good bench, that could be the reason why in the 4th quarter, the starters are still fresh and ready to grind. Amundson and Dudley are hustling their butt's off. And Dudley is also a decent defender and a deadly shooter. You add Dragic's soaring confidence, the suns are playing at a very high level. I just wish RJ and Hill show up for us, we can give a good fight.

[Slippy]

TD , Dice, Bonner and even Blair's biggest problem when guarding out on the perimter on a PnR switch is they don't recover as well as they used to or can't at all if they get driven on. As a result, they allow for a lot more room when closing out. In the case of the suns series, too much room as in just shoot over me please. Being worn out, getting old or physical limitations does this to you . Pop obviously doesn't want to accept this with his un-wavering faith in allowing Spurs bigs to switch out on the perimeter. That's why when i saw posts suggesting Ian getting playing time . I actually didn't mind this because as a big he's given us glimpses of that ability to recover quickly enough once getting beat. Probably too late to happen but who knows with what Pop's thinking going into game 4.

[ploto]

I guess switching keeps you from defending no one like Bonner did several times the previous game!

[Obstructed_View]

I am still very confused as to why Pop thought switching would work.

Its a very shady coaching call.

The same reason he thought switching would work in 2006 against Dallas: He doesn't seem to realilze that shot-blocking centers are important to playing good defense.