Does Lebron need another established player?

[TheMACHINE]

I'm not saying he's a bad player or anything like that, just think he's not as good as you're making him.

Well, thats the point of my thread. If a "Jamison" type player is not enough, then does Lebron need a DWade/Melo type All-Star?

[lefty]

Wizards?

Scratch that

I thought those were his playoffs stats

[Pero]

Similar to Gasol?

Even though he didn't have any success there, Gasol did lead his team to the playoffs in the West.
Had a feeling this was what this thread was actually about, Kobefan.

[lefty]

People need to stop giving this guy a crutch. He has a deep, talented team around him. If he can't get it done with this group it's on him- especially considering how horrendously he's playing. Other guys have won more with less. I don't think Tim Duncan's supporting cast in 2003 was much, if any, better than LeBron's this year.

Some guys have what it takes and some guys don't. It appears LeBron is in the second category.

Duncan had a much better team in 2003

But the most important thing is to get rid of Mike Brown; he blows

[TheMACHINE]

Even though he didn't have any success there, Gasol did lead his team to the playoffs in the West.
Had a feeling this was what this thread was actually about, Kobefan.

i think my original question is legitimate, dont you?

Jamison led his team to the playoffs in the East too right?

[JamStone]

Similar to Gasol?

No. Gasol led a pretty average team to 50 wins and multiple times to the playoffs in the compe ive Western Conference.

When Jamison was the franchise player on the Warriors, they were . The times he made it to the playoffs, he came off the bench for the Mavs or was the third best player on the Wizards.

Decidedly different.

[JamStone]

i think my original question is legitimate, dont you?

Jamison led his team to the playoffs in the East too right?

No.

[Thunder Dan]

people will be asking whether Lebron has enough around him 10 years from now....dude is just not a winner. He cares more about off court activities than winning. He wants to have what Jordan built off the court without doing what Jordan did on the court. Lebron's team is fine this year, they are built around him playing at a high level, and he stopped doing that. He quit

[ChrisRichards]

Wizards?

qft. lottery team=great numbers.


also jamison is not being utilized by brown very well.

[Pero]

Well, thats the point of my thread. If a "Jamison" type player is not enough, then does Lebron need a DWade/Melo type All-Star?

IMO he's good enough that he shouldn't need one. Maybe he'd need a better coach more than another star. I mean, 13 out of the last 14 champhionships (or more) were won by hall of fame coaches.

[TheMACHINE]

No. Gasol led a pretty average team to 50 wins and multiple times to the playoffs in the compe ive Western Conference.

When Jamison was the franchise player on the Warriors, they were . The times he made it to the playoffs, he came off the bench for the Mavs or was the third best player on the Wizards.

Decidedly different.

so you're take is that Lebron doesnt need a crazy all star but needs a star in between better then Jamison....ala Joe Johnson?

[ChrisRichards]

IMO he's good enough that he shouldn't need one. Maybe he'd need a better coach more than another star. I mean, 13 out of the last 14 champhionships (or more) were won by hall of fame coaches.

So, just like Kobe and MJ, he need Phil.

[Pero]

Duncan had a much better team in 2003

I don't think so. Maybe as a team with how they played they were better, but individually probably not. But then like you say, Cavs have a worse coach than the Spurs did, so maybe that tips the balance in the Spurs favor quite a bit.

[Pero]

i think my original question is legitimate, dont you?

Sure.

[SpursFanFirst]

He wants to have what Jordan built off the court without doing what Jordan did on the court.

Exactly.
This has been my issue with him from the beginning.
People are so desperate for there to be another Jordan, they've been heaping praise on James from the beginning.
Win something first, guy.
I will never understand the obsession with this man.

[TheMACHINE]

I think all this talk is happening cuz this elimination is happening during the second round.

[Pero]

people will be asking whether Lebron has enough around him 10 years from now....dude is just not a winner.
...

This is my feeling also, he's more of a business man than a player.

[JamStone]

so you're take is that Lebron doesnt need a crazy all star but needs a star in between better then Jamison....ala Joe Johnson?

No, that is not my take.

My take was pretty clear that LeBron doesn't need another established star to get back to the NBA Finals. He may not get there this year, but he's capable of getting a team to the Finals without one. Having one would obviously help, but is not necessary.

That said, your comparison of Jamison to Gasol is a weak one. Two different players at two different stages of their career when they joined LeBron and and Kobe, respectively. Jamison is 33 years old, almost 34, and is a 6'8-ish, undersized power forward who mostly stays on the perimeter on offense. Gasol was 28 in 2008 when he was traded to the Lakers and is a 7-foot power forward who while playing soft at times, is an effective and productive low post scorer and due to size and length is a much better defender.

LeBron getting Jamison is nowhere near the same as Kobe getting Gasol. Jamison now is not the same type of star as Gasol in 2008.

[anonoftheinternets]

Once again guys:

Jamison
2009-2010 Wizards
20.5 ppg
8.8 rpg
45% fg

Keep in mind that this was an addition without subtraction trade. Everyone one of us would have jumped for joy if we got Jamison in our team.



Similar to Gasol?

so lakers would be okay with gasol for jamison swap?

[TheMACHINE]

No, that is not my take.

My take was pretty clear that LeBron doesn't need another established star to get back to the NBA Finals. He may not get there this year, but he's capable of getting a team to the Finals without one. Having one would obviously help, but is not necessary.

That said, your comparison of Jamison to Gasol is a weak one. Two different players at two different stages of their career when they joined LeBron and and Kobe, respectively. Jamison is 33 years old, almost 34, and is a 6'8-ish, undersized power forward who mostly stays on the perimeter on offense. Gasol was 28 in 2008 when he was traded to the Lakers and is a 7-foot power forward who while playing soft at times, is an effective and productive low post scorer and due to size and length is a much better defender.

LeBron getting Jamison is nowhere near the same as Kobe getting Gasol. Jamison now is not the same type of star as Gasol in 2008.

fine...ill accept your gasol/jamison take. So you think Lebron can take this same set of teamates to the finals if we were to redo the playoffs?

[ChrisRichards]

Come on jamstoned, you dont really believe that ish. THis is not 2004 no more. Every team nowadays are stacking up with major talent. The rich are definitely getting richer. Lebron is stupendously amazing but he still needs a legit second option.

[TheMACHINE]

so lakers would be okay with gasol for jamison swap?

i think Kobe and the Lakers would find a way to utilize him and get the maximum efficiency out of him. Definately not fail in the 2nd round.

So are you saying that jamison is not good?

[picc84]

Jamison isn't a star, but Bynum, Odom, and Artest all are.

[TheMACHINE]

Jamison isn't a star, but Bynum, Odom, and Artest all are.

Thats what i dont get too. I understand every team is different and so is every player, but Lebrons team isnt a bunch of Scrubs...they got the #1 record and James got MVP for a reason.

Thats why i asked the original question. If James cant win with teamates like he has now, i'd figure he needs a Wade caliber star to help him.

[JamStone]

fine...ill accept your gasol/jamison take. So you think Lebron can take this same set of teamates to the finals if we were to redo the playoffs?

Yes. "Can" as in is "capable of."

Say we were able to simulate these playoffs with all the same factors and scenarios 10 times, all the same cir stances, injuries, opponents, coaching decisions.

I'd estimate that LeBron and this same set of teammates would make it to the NBA Finals 6 or 7 times out of those 10 times. Right now, this is one of those other 3-4 times they probably won't.