Kind of pissed we may never get to see Kobe vs. Lebron in the finals...

[21_Blessings]

Nice try Spurs fan. Kobe had a well developed post-game at 21

[milkshakeballa]

It's crazy watching laker fan jack off to LeBron's chokes as if Kobert doesn't have his fair share as well.

its been crazy watching the WHOLE NBA jack off to this .

arrogant things a ring should be given to him...

[Greg Oden]

Nice try Spurs fan. Kobe had a well developed post-game at 21

revisionist history at it's finest.

[Greg Oden]

its been crazy watching the WHOLE NBA jack off to this .

arrogant things a ring should be given to him...

Kobe has had this same arrogance about him his entire career too.

[milkshakeballa]

Kobe has had this same arrogance about him his entire career too.

really?

kobe is the chosen 1?

kobe has only played 3 bad games in 7 years?


there isn't a doubt in my mind kobe isn't 5x more arrogant than lebron is

but he atleast keeps it to him ing self


AND BACKS HIS UP ON THE COURT

4 rings homey

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Because superstars and athletes with super-natural talents are showcased. I want to see the best players in the world on the biggest stage.

Two words: THAT

I want to see the best TEAMS in the world on the biggest stage. This ain't a one-on-one tournament.

[Greg Oden]

really?

kobe is the chosen 1?

kobe has only played 3 bad games in 7 years?


there isn't a doubt in my mind kobe isn't 5x more arrogant than lebron is

but he atleast keeps it to him ing self


AND BACKS HIS UP ON THE COURT

4 rings homey

you keep believing that.

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ these arguments..

Has the media really brainwashed people this badly?..

How the do you measure "desire to win"?.."killer instinct"..you can't measure this ..it's an unquantifiable argument that ONLY Al-Quobe uses..no other fanbase uses this as an argument, because you can't measure it..it's a stupid argument..

Stepping up to defend people?..Lebron defended Rondo at times, even though he shouldn't..it's a bad strategy..why didn't Kobe step up and defend Pierce and Allen more in the Finals? they were torching his team, so he decided to sag off Rondo instead?..why is he getting credit for doing this, and Lebron isn't?..

Not choking?..Kobe has choked plenty, just as much as Lebron has..

Having a post up game that you mastered past the age of 30 is NOT an argument for best player in the NBA..it really has very little to do with it..it helps Kobe with his effectiveness, but effectiveness as a whole is an argument in itself..Lebron is clearly a more effective player than OJ..




When Kobe had a bad series vs. the Celtics and allowed his team to blow a 24-point lead in the most crucial game of the series, did he not have "killer instinct" and "desire to win"?..I don't understand..what's the difference?..

Did he all of a sudden learn how to develop this last year?..or was it because the Lakers had a better team and better matchup in the Finals?..was it really attributed to that killer instinct he apparently developed over the Summer?..

Kobe has been to 6 Finals, and only 1 of them has stood out..shouldn't he have played better since he has this supposed amazing ability to be clutch?..1 of those Finals appearances was arguably the worst in NBA history, another one was a choke job where his team was favored..

Kobe went 8-21 and 7-22 with 10 turnovers in the final 2 games of the Finals vs. Boston, the 2 most important games of the series..how did this happen?..

Kobe gave up on a team in a game 7, why isn't this being talked about?..where was his "desire to win" in that game?..




Lebron has had some amazing games in the playoffs, and he's shown up for plenty of close out games..why is he all of a sudden considered a choker based on a few games?..

Averaging around 37/8/8 in the ECF vs. Orlando isn't extremely clutch?..

Dropping 45 points in a game 7 vs. Boston?..

Leading a horrible team to the NBA Finals?..

Having one of the greatest playoff performances of all-time vs. Detroit isn't clutch?..

What's the criteria?..



Was Kobe a choker when he was playing like vs. OKC in the 1st round?..

How do you determine these things?..




Sorry, but there's no argument here..I have yet to see a legit argument for Kobe other than arguments that can't be quantified..you can't criticize Lebron for certain things, and then praise Kobe, when Kobe has had some huge choke jobs and has went through the same ..

Lebron has taken a team to the NBA Finals and multiple ECFs, despite never having a legit #3 option on his team, let alone a #2..

The only arguments for Kobe Bryant continue to be things such as killer instinct, work ethic, ability as a closer(30% career clutch shooter), defense(because you can't accurately measure it), drive to win..

These continue to be the arguments because they can't be proven wrong..you can't measure this..in my life, I have yet to see a good argument for Kobe being the player of the decade or Kobe being some amazing player under cir stances like the one Lebron was just facing..it's all hype, don't believe it..

[peskypesky]

It's basically Kobe vs The NBA.......and he's winning.

Kobe didn't do when he had no Shaq and no Gasol.

[Greg Oden]

I hate to say it but HarlemHeat just chode bloaded a lot of you Laker gots.

[Greg Oden]

"yeah but yeah but Kobe has 4 rings! He's not a choker! "

[DazedAndConfused]

You can't BE a choker when you've won 4 NBA les.

Go home kids.

Sour grape Spur fans disappointed their season ended so pathetically. Getting swept by the Suns of all teams...

[BadOdor]

Sons I could care less at this point if vuya comes back from his injury to average 32 ppg to lead the lakers to a le, as long as we get one.

That being said, at some point the excuses gotta run out for lebron - he should have won it all this year.

[HarlemHeat37]

I didn't say Kobe is a choker, I said he HAS choked plenty of times..

I just find it extremely hypocritical to see these arguments against Lebron when Kobe has went through the exact same , and Laker fans CONTINUED to say he was the best player in the NBA..

[BadOdor]

I didn't say Kobe is a choker, I said he HAS choked plenty of times..

Son I think he quit rather than chocked, but that point is, he has also got it done. Yeah yeah, I know, "but but phil jackson, but but shaq, but but gasol".....At the end of the day, he has DONE IT.

I don't know if lebron is a choker or not....he did not choke last year....this year though? did seem like he did not care as much..

[milkshakeballa]

LOL @ these arguments..

Has the media really brainwashed people this badly?..

How the do you measure "desire to win"?.."killer instinct"..you can't measure this ..it's an unquantifiable argument that ONLY Al-Quobe uses..no other fanbase uses this as an argument, because you can't measure it..it's a stupid argument..

Stepping up to defend people?..Lebron defended Rondo at times, even though he shouldn't..it's a bad strategy..why didn't Kobe step up and defend Pierce and Allen more in the Finals? they were torching his team, so he decided to sag off Rondo instead?..why is he getting credit for doing this, and Lebron isn't?..

Not choking?..Kobe has choked plenty, just as much as Lebron has..

Having a post up game that you mastered past the age of 30 is NOT an argument for best player in the NBA..it really has very little to do with it..it helps Kobe with his effectiveness, but effectiveness as a whole is an argument in itself..Lebron is clearly a more effective player than OJ..




When Kobe had a bad series vs. the Celtics and allowed his team to blow a 24-point lead in the most crucial game of the series, did he not have "killer instinct" and "desire to win"?..I don't understand..what's the difference?..

Did he all of a sudden learn how to develop this last year?..or was it because the Lakers had a better team and better matchup in the Finals?..was it really attributed to that killer instinct he apparently developed over the Summer?..

Kobe has been to 6 Finals, and only 1 of them has stood out..shouldn't he have played better since he has this supposed amazing ability to be clutch?..1 of those Finals appearances was arguably the worst in NBA history, another one was a choke job where his team was favored..

Kobe went 8-21 and 7-22 with 10 turnovers in the final 2 games of the Finals vs. Boston, the 2 most important games of the series..how did this happen?..

Kobe gave up on a team in a game 7, why isn't this being talked about?..where was his "desire to win" in that game?..




Lebron has had some amazing games in the playoffs, and he's shown up for plenty of close out games..why is he all of a sudden considered a choker based on a few games?..

Averaging around 37/8/8 in the ECF vs. Orlando isn't extremely clutch?..

Dropping 45 points in a game 7 vs. Boston?..

Leading a horrible team to the NBA Finals?..

Having one of the greatest playoff performances of all-time vs. Detroit isn't clutch?..

What's the criteria?..



Was Kobe a choker when he was playing like vs. OKC in the 1st round?..

How do you determine these things?..




Sorry, but there's no argument here..I have yet to see a legit argument for Kobe other than arguments that can't be quantified..you can't criticize Lebron for certain things, and then praise Kobe, when Kobe has had some huge choke jobs and has went through the same ..

Lebron has taken a team to the NBA Finals and multiple ECFs, despite never having a legit #3 option on his team, let alone a #2..

The only arguments for Kobe Bryant continue to be things such as killer instinct, work ethic, ability as a closer(30% career clutch shooter), defense(because you can't accurately measure it), drive to win..

These continue to be the arguments because they can't be proven wrong..you can't measure this..in my life, I have yet to see a good argument for Kobe being the player of the decade or Kobe being some amazing player under cir stances like the one Lebron was just facing..it's all hype, don't believe it..

You have made good points in the past but this?

Laughable.

Just because YOU do not want to recognize the aspects of the game that can't be quantified DOES NOT mean they do not exist or do not have merit.

Let me ask you this Harlem...when was the last time Kobe stumbled when he had the best and deepest team in the league? When he was a favorite?

2004? I can fly with that.

Don't tell me 2008. Celtics were by far the better team.

LeBron?

Back to back 60 win seasons. Back to back MVP's.

Back to back ing choke jobs.

In the 2nd round? REALLY?!

I'm sick of the media and his fans continuously comingu p with excuses for the guy....at some ing point in his career...Bron is going to have to step up.

Get off his ing nuts Harlem.

[Andrew Bynum]

Kobe didn't do when he had no Shaq and no Gasol.

Ugh. Who did Magic and Bird play with? Scrubs? LeBron can't win even with some pretty decent players around him.

[milkshakeballa]

I didn't say Kobe is a choker, I said he HAS choked plenty of times..

I just find it extremely hypocritical to see these arguments against Lebron when Kobe has went through the exact same , and Laker fans CONTINUED to say he was the best player in the NBA..

What arguments against LeBron that Kobe has doen the exact same?

Kobe put in 19 ing points in the 2nd quarter against the Suns.

That is quitting?

[milkshakeballa]

You know the difference between Kobe and Bron Harlem?














Kobe:




















Bron:

[easy7]

+

4 rings, no maid and one crazy !!!

[milkshakeballa]

how many ing years in the league harlen has bron been it?

time is ing up pal.

ZERO POST GAME.

NO RELIABLE JUMPER.

The guy has not improved one single aspect of his game. Yes his numbers have improved...maturity...natural progression. But what aspect of his game has he improved on while in the league Harlem? Give me one?

His man defense? Still a ing joke. I guess yo ucan say his timing on his "OMG IMA WHILE ANNOUNCING GREATEST BLOCK EVER" fastbreak blocks have improved.

Passing has always been great. Free throw shooting?



The guy does not give a . Thats the bottom line.


He is all about $$$ and not about

[midnightpulp]

how many ing years in the league harlen has bron been it?

time is ing up pal.

ZERO POST GAME.

NO RELIABLE JUMPER.

The guy has not improved one single aspect of his game. Yes his numbers have improved...maturity...natural progression. But what aspect of his game has he improved on while in the league Harlem? Give me one?

His man defense? Still a ing joke. I guess yo ucan say his timing on his "OMG IMA WHILE ANNOUNCING GREATEST BLOCK EVER" fastbreak blocks have improved.

Passing has always been great. Free throw shooting?



The guy does not give a . Thats the bottom line.


He is all about $$$ and not about

I can second this post to a degree. Lebron does indeed need to develop other aspects of his game, which he seems not to have taken in interest in. If the guy developed a post game, he'd be working on a 3 peat right now.

I think what Harlem is trying to convey is the hypocrisy Kobe fans are displaying here. If this was the Lakers losing tonight with Kobe in the Lebron role and Jamison in the Gasol role, they'd be crucifying the latter while excusing the former.

I understand what you guys are doing. You want James to be held to the same standards as Kobe and receive the same amount of criticism when he fails. Kobe was the media and online forum whipping boy from 04-08, so it delights you guys to see "the Chosen One" go through similar treatment, which James totally deserves.

But let's not sit here and act like Kobe hasn't had to endure his share of ty performances and "chokes' before he finally broke through and won a championship as the leader of the team.

And finally, while we all have fun arguing about marquee players "choking", and making fun of Kobe, Lebron, whomever, at the end of day, teams win games, not players. Teams lose games, not players. This applies to Duncan, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Lebron, etc, etc. Kobe played like for the majority of the first round, but his team won. Duncan played like for the last two games of the 07 Finals, but his team won. If those teams would've lost, we'd be calling those two players chokers.

We've become so programmed by ESPN and their marketing bull we've seemed to forget that there exists a team concept at all.

[roycrikside]

Why? Why would the names on the jerseys make a Finals more or less entertaining? Pull your head out of your ESPN-infested, storyline-obsessed ass.

+1

There's nothing to be angry about. If LeBron's team deserved to go to the Finals they would've. They played worse than Orlando and Boston in back to back years and got their asses beat.

ESPN and the fans want it both ways. They accuse the NBA of being fixed and the refs for being on the take, then they get whiny and butthurt when their stars and media darlings don't win. The other teams are filled with guys who are getting paid and trying to win too. They're not just going to lay down and let you get your ring. If you want it, you gotta earn it. 8-of-21 and 9 TOs ain't gonna get it done in a road playoff game.

[newacc]

Present Day Kobe has killer instinct and still a great game but he's also paired with 2 of the top 4 big men and a 6'10'' small forward that's super skilled and top 3 in the league in versatility.

Basically, Lakers have put together a dominating team with a ton of talent. Takes away a little bit from the Kobe awesome column.

That Memphis give-away was a history altering trade.

[cobbler]

LOL @ these arguments..

Has the media really brainwashed people this badly?..

How the do you measure "desire to win"?.."killer instinct"..you can't measure this ..it's an unquantifiable argument that ONLY Al-Quobe uses..no other fanbase uses this as an argument, because you can't measure it..it's a stupid argument..

.
.
.


Sorry, but there's no argument here..I have yet to see a legit argument for Kobe other than arguments that can't be quantified..you can't criticize Lebron for certain things, and then praise Kobe, when Kobe has had some huge choke jobs and has went through the same ..

.
.
.

The only arguments for Kobe Bryant continue to be things such as killer instinct, work ethic, ability as a closer(30% career clutch shooter), defense(because you can't accurately measure it), drive to win..

These continue to be the arguments because they can't be proven wrong..you can't measure this..in my life, I have yet to see a good argument for Kobe being the player of the decade or Kobe being some amazing player under cir stances like the one Lebron was just facing..it's all hype, don't believe it..

Unquantifiable by who? This is your problem. You just don't get it and probably never will. I can only assume you have not played any team sports at any serious level. Heck, at any level. Work ethic is most definetly quantifiable. You don't think the players, teams, and organizations know who the hard workers are and vice versa? Does it show up on your box score or advanced stats sheets? No. Desire to win? Defense? Are you seriously telling me you cannot measure these with your eyes? Do they show up in the statlines? No. Its not all about stats and PER.

Look at Lebrons game tonight.

27/19/10 on 8-21 shooting and 9 turnovers

Not a bad night other than the turnover issues. It was triple double. But what is the talk all about? He didnt look right, there was no sense of urgency, you couldn't see the fire in his eyes, the chemistry was wrong etc etc etc...

ahhhh.... the intangibles

So, can these "intangibles" be proven on a Hollinger stat sheet? No, I'm sorry. But you can simply gander over at the trophy cases and see the glaring results of teams who have them and those who dont.