How would a prime Olajuwon fare against a prime Duncan?

[Tmac&Luther]

Don't ignore the fact Barkley and Majerle started getting drunk every night once they took a 3-1 lead. Houston needed plenty of help from Phoenix to win that series.

Umm, getting drunk every night is not something you want to fall back on...and nice excuse for a team that blew a 3-1 lead.

[midnightpulp]

How the did Olajuwon "fall off a cliff"

The guy at the age of 36 put up 19pp, 9.6rpb, and 2.5bpg....which is better than what Duncan did at 33 (now give me the "per" )

I hate to tell you this, but once big men fall they tend to fall fast. Give a alltime great props for lasting as long as he did, which is MUCH longer than Duncan will ever last.

I agree with Rocketfan in this thread that prime Hakeem>Duncan, but PER is useful here.

You just can't arbitrarily compare raw stats across the board when evaluating how two players match up. Duncan and Hakeem played in different eras on teams with different systems. Popovich's system is not very friendly to scoring.

[Booharv]

Thread le:"How would a prime Olajuwon fare against a prime Duncan?"

[djohn2oo8]

Umm, getting drunk every night is not something you want to fall back on...and nice excuse for a team that blew a 3-1 lead.

Well crack did ruin us in the 80's along with injuries. But crack ed us up

[baseline bum]

lockout?

Come with an argument and not a troll.

[Tmac&Luther]

Shaq in the MVP-level years slaughters every bigman you can name from the 90s.

Umm...SHAQ WAS IN MVP LEVEL YEARS IN 95 AND OLAJUWON COMPLETELY BROKE HIS OFF IN THE THEN MVP DAVID ROBINSON'S ASS.

Or did you forget about that.

[djohn2oo8]

Umm, getting drunk every night is not something you want to fall back on...and nice excuse for a team that blew a 3-1 lead.

remember 3-1, "it's over"?

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Umm, getting drunk every night is not something you want to fall back on...and nice excuse for a team that blew a 3-1 lead.

I'm not making an excuse, that series will forever be a stain on Barkley's career. My only point was that it's not like Houston stole that series from Phoenix, they gave it away.

[Tmac&Luther]

I'm not making an excuse, that series will forever be a stain on Barkley's career. My only point was that it's not like Houston stole that series from Phoenix, they gave it away.

They only gave away one game in that series...which was Barkley's missed FTs... Which Houston STILL won in overtime

Every other game, Houston earned and won those games, don't be a sore loser.

[Many PackYao]

remember 3-1, "it's over"?

I remember A.C. Green's virgin dumbass saying there is no way they would lose the series after going 3-1.
Suns choked series leads on the Rockets twice '94 & 95.

[Booharv]

Hakeem had good teammates? What a lousy argument. Let's see the argument for his awesome teamates from the 1993-94 Rockets roster:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1994.html

No one averaging more than 14.0 ppg, Maxwell #2 option (Thorpe scored more points but a ton of those were from putbacks) drilling it at 38.9% from the floor and 29.8% from the 3 point land. Something called Chris Gent was their 4th leading scorer in the 24 games he played at 10.4 ppg. 2 guys besides Hakeem who played in more than 24 games averaged in double figures. Casell averaged 6 ppg in his rookie year. Ultra scrubs Scott Brooks and Carl Herrera are rotation players. Horry and Elie don't break 10 ppg or crack 30 minutes.

Tons of problems. The glass ain't half empty it's got a ing quarter sized hole in the bottom of it.

[ynh]

Hakeem had good teammates? What a lousy argument. Let's see the argument for his awesome teamates from the 1993-94 Rockets roster:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/HOU/1994.html

No one averaging more than 14.0 ppg, Maxwell #2 option (Thorpe scored more points but a ton of those were from putbacks) drilling it at 38.9% from the floor and 29.8% from the 3 point land. Something called Chris Gent was their 4th leading scorer in the 24 games he played at 10.4 ppg. 2 guys besides Hakeem who played in more than 24 games averaged in double figures. Casell averaged 6 ppg in his rookie year. Ultra scrubs Scott Brooks and Carl Herrera are rotation players. Horry and Elie don't break 10 ppg or crack 30 minutes.

Tons of problems. The glass ain't half empty it's got a ing quarter sized hole in the bottom of it.

But you mean Sam wasn't the Sam I grew up watching with the bucks when he was in Houston?

Well .. there goes my argument.. but they had Mad Max!! and Sleepy Floyd!!

[Amaso]

Olajuwon would have his way with Duncan 1v1. Also there's no one better than a prime Olajuwon

[ynh]

They had ing Pete Chilcut! and Matt Buzzard!!

[HarlemHeat37]

Peak Hakeem > Peak Duncan IMO, but Olajuwon has become remembered slightly differently with revisionist history IMO..Hakeem is remembered a lot more fondly today than he was during his actual playing days IMO..

Looking at MVP voting in regards to Hakeem from his rookie year until the end of his "prime", he had a decent amount of seasons where he finished outside of the top 5 in MVP voting..I'm excluding players like Jordan, Magic and Bird, along with a few others in certain seasons, because there's obviously no shame in being behind them..

I'm including comparable players like Malone, Robinson and Ewing, because Hakeem is currently remembered a lot better than the 3 of those guys, so I figure he should be ahead of them in most years due to the revisionist history..



Olajuwon had 6 seasons during his athletic peak/prime where he finished outside the top 5 in voting..

Rookie season: 12th in MVP voting, behind such players as Terry mings, Sidney Moncrief, Calvin Natt, Alex English and his own teammate Ralph Sampson..

1987: 7th in MVP voting, behind McHale, Wilkins and Barkley..

1988: 7th in MVP voting, behind Barkley, Drexler and Wilkins, just ahead of Malone..

1990: 7th in MVP voting, behind Malone, Ewing and Robinson..

1991: 18th in MVP voting..this one was due to an injury where he only played around 60 games, but he finished behind his own teammate Kenny Smith..

1992: Didn't receive any votes at all..




Duncan had 2 seasons where he finished outside of the top 5..

2006: 8th in MVP, injuries(battling PF all year)..

2008: 7th in MVP, probably the last season where you could say he was in his prime..



Obviously when it comes to MVP voting, there are many factors involved..I'm not using this as primary argument or anything, I just found it interesting to see what the MVP voting looks like and how these guys were remembered in this regard during their active playing days..

MVP voting is often flawed and often criticized, but it's a good enough indication of a player's impact for that specific year..he doesn't necessarily have to finish at #1, but finishing in the top 5 is usually a decent gauge IMO..

Again, I'm not using this as an argument, but I think it's safe to say that Hakeem wasn't as appreciated during his time as he is by today's NBA fans..it might mean that they didn't realize the greatness they were watching, it might mean that Hakeem's highlights and 1 series vs. David Robinson got him more hype with revisionist history, it might mean something else, I just found it interesting..

BTW, I'm not comparing Hakeem's finishes to Duncan's finishes..it's obviously tough to compare without in-depth researching, the league and talent was different while each guy was playing..I'm just looking at it to see how those players were remembered in their own time in regards to MVP voting..

[Booharv]

They had ing Pete Chilcut! and Matt Buzzard!!

Also, note that # 2 option Maxwell's 29.8% 3 point field goal percentage didn't stop him from jacking up 5.4 threes a game. Its a bona fide miracle Hakeem won a series with that team.

[Sportstudi]

95 Hakeem The Dream could be considered the greatest basketball player of all time. In the playoffs, he went through the league's top 4 players (Malone, Barkley, Robinson, and Shaq) in one playoff run, putting up ridiculous numbers.

I've never seen a player as good as 95 Hakeem. Not 3 peat Shaq, first 3 peat Jordan, or 03 Duncan.

It's no insult to Duncan to claim that he would get outclassed by 95 Hakeem. He outclassed everyone.

This.

Career-wise it's pretty much clear that Duncan > Hakeem, but during that year the Dream destroyed everyone. He had a rather short prime, but within that span he was simply unstoppable.

[pauls931]

That year hurt because it was the Suns best shot at the le with Barkley still ok and no MJ waiting at the end of the line. It's a shame MJ wasn't waiting, if the dream could have disposed of the bulls with MJ I think that would rank them as the greatest team of all time.

[JamStone]

Peak Hakeem > Peak Duncan IMO, but Olajuwon has become remembered slightly differently with revisionist history IMO..Hakeem is remembered a lot more fondly today than he was during his actual playing days IMO..

Looking at MVP voting in regards to Hakeem from his rookie year until the end of his "prime", he had a decent amount of seasons where he finished outside of the top 5 in MVP voting..I'm excluding players like Jordan, Magic and Bird, along with a few others in certain seasons, because there's obviously no shame in being behind them..

I'm including comparable players like Malone, Robinson and Ewing, because Hakeem is currently remembered a lot better than the 3 of those guys, so I figure he should be ahead of them in most years due to the revisionist history..



Olajuwon had 6 seasons during his athletic peak/prime where he finished outside the top 5 in voting..

Rookie season: 12th in MVP voting, behind such players as Terry mings, Sidney Moncrief, Calvin Natt, Alex English and his own teammate Ralph Sampson..

1987: 7th in MVP voting, behind McHale, Wilkins and Barkley..

1988: 7th in MVP voting, behind Barkley, Drexler and Wilkins, just ahead of Malone..

1990: 7th in MVP voting, behind Malone, Ewing and Robinson..

1991: 18th in MVP voting..this one was due to an injury where he only played around 60 games, but he finished behind his own teammate Kenny Smith..

1992: Didn't receive any votes at all..




Duncan had 2 seasons where he finished outside of the top 5..

2006: 8th in MVP, injuries(battling PF all year)..

2008: 7th in MVP, probably the last season where you could say he was in his prime..



Obviously when it comes to MVP voting, there are many factors involved..I'm not using this as primary argument or anything, I just found it interesting to see what the MVP voting looks like and how these guys were remembered in this regard during their active playing days..

MVP voting is often flawed and often criticized, but it's a good enough indication of a player's impact for that specific year..he doesn't necessarily have to finish at #1, but finishing in the top 5 is usually a decent gauge IMO..

Again, I'm not using this as an argument, but I think it's safe to say that Hakeem wasn't as appreciated during his time as he is by today's NBA fans..it might mean that they didn't realize the greatness they were watching, it might mean that Hakeem's highlights and 1 series vs. David Robinson got him more hype with revisionist history, it might mean something else, I just found it interesting..

BTW, I'm not comparing Hakeem's finishes to Duncan's finishes..it's obviously tough to compare without in-depth researching, the league and talent was different while each guy was playing..I'm just looking at it to see how those players were remembered in their own time in regards to MVP voting..

As you already conceded, there are different factors that go into MVP voting so I'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place.

Players, no matter how good they are, don't get MVP votes when they're on .500 teams. And for most of those seasons you highlighted in Hakeem's career, those Houston teams were right around a .500 record and you explained 1991 with Hakeem's injuries.

Great players get more credit when their individual greatness in turn makes their team great. That was the case for Duncan's entire career. He played for great teams, 50+ win teams, teams that went deep in the playoffs year in and year out. That's why he would get greater MVP consideration season after season.

I understand that you acknowledge that other factors go into MVP voting, but I'm not sure why you brought this point up in the first place.

[Killakobe81]

This.

Career-wise it's pretty much clear that Duncan > Hakeem, but during that year the Dream destroyed everyone. He had a rather short prime, but within that span he was simply unstoppable.

i agree with this completely.

Duncan>career than Hakeem

But 95 Hakeem was >Jordan>Magic>Shaq ...BECAUSE OF DEFENSE ...

TBH for 2 years Hakeem was the greatest player i have ever seen as well ...only because Kareem was at the tail end of his prime in the early 80's whne i started watching him.

[redzero]

I love when these Olajuwon-Duncan topics are made.

[ambchang]

I would pick Hakeem over Duncan in a game of 1 on 1 every day of the week. 100 out of 100 times. Duncan had great low post moves, the problem is that of the only two players in the history of the league who have better low post moves, one of them was Hakeem.

This thread also showed that there are a bunch of kids who never watched the 94 and 95 rockets team, by claiming Hakeem had crappy teammates. That Rockets team was clutch, well-balanced, and the perfect system for Hakeem. There are constantly 3 or 4 shooters on that team that can annihalate the opponent on 3 point barrages. To top it off, the league shortened the 3 point line in 95, and the quick release of those shooters (plus an aging Drexler), made that team ever more difficult to stop.

Finally, there's the defense that those Rockets teams played. It was anchored by Hakeem, but a young Horry, Cassell, Kenny Smith and Thorpe could wreck havoc on the defensive end.

[Booharv]

I would pick Hakeem over Duncan in a game of 1 on 1 every day of the week. 100 out of 100 times. Duncan had great low post moves, the problem is that of the only two players in the history of the league who have better low post moves, one of them was Hakeem.

This thread also showed that there are a bunch of kids who never watched the 94 and 95 rockets team, by claiming Hakeem had crappy teammates. That Rockets team was clutch, well-balanced, and the perfect system for Hakeem. There are constantly 3 or 4 shooters on that team that can annihalate the opponent on 3 point barrages. To top it off, the league shortened the 3 point line in 95, and the quick release of those shooters (plus an aging Drexler), made that team ever more difficult to stop.

Finally, there's the defense that those Rockets teams played. It was anchored by Hakeem, but a young Horry, Cassell, Kenny Smith and Thorpe could wreck havoc on the defensive end.

I watched pretty much all of the playoffs from 1990 to current day except for some of the obvious mismatch series. Hakeem had some awful teammates in 1993-94. There were some good defensive role players on that team but no one at all who could reliably create their shot other than Hakeem. Maxwell was by far the #2 option and he averaged over 13 fga's per game and shot unbelievably bad from the field. Like record breaking bad. No one else averaged double digit fga's per game. And if you remember that time at all any time Hakeem went out of the game that team was ugly to watch. They basically swung it around the perimeter until someone jacked up a contested jumper. Or threw it in to Thorpe who was a mechanical post player.

[Lars]

Hakeem was amazing.

[ChrisRichards]

You guys have to remember that Olajuwon faced the absolute beasts in the 90's and owned them.

D-Rob
Ewing
Shaq

I believe he will easily dissect a prime Duncan on defense and Duncan wont do anything to stop Olajuwon offensively.