How would a prime Olajuwon fare against a prime Duncan?

[Mavs_man_41]

like this?

no, not like that. 9 all nba defensive teams and back to back DPOY awards say otherwise. Hakeem had everything, the quickness, smarts, leaping ability, you name it. He was the only guy who could lock down the paint or even chase a guard down on the fast break for the swat. the man was the total package, and demolished pretty much every other great that he went up against. i'm sorry if that offends you or something, actually i'm really not. tough

[Shastafarian]

no, not like that. 9 all nba defensive teams and back to back DPOY awards say otherwise. Hakeem had everything, the quickness, smarts, leaping ability, you name it. He was the only guy who could lock down the paint or even chase a guard down on the fast break for the swat. the man was the total package, and demolished pretty much every other great that he went up against. i'm sorry if that offends you or something, actually i'm really not. tough

You think Hakeem was better than Russell. Oh mavsfan, never leave this place.

[Shastafarian]

Hakeem is definitely a top 3 defender of all-time, the other two being Russell and Jordan.

I know. he's probably the 2nd best big man. Mavsfan said he's probably the GOAT. Mavsfan is wrong.

[Mavs_man_41]

I know. he's probably the 2nd best big man. Mavsfan said he's probably the GOAT. Mavsfan is wrong.

let me know when you complete that device of yours to bring russell into the present, spur fan.

[Galileo]

Duncan was already better than Olajuwon's peak by 1999.

Duncan is the best player of all time with Olajuwon 2nd.

[djohn2oo8]

Duncan was already better than Olajuwon's peak by 1999.

Duncan is the best player of all time with Olajuwon 2nd.

Failed attempt at rile up

[Shastafarian]

let me know when you complete that device of yours to bring russell into the present, spur fan.

This guy thinks Hakeem was a better defender than Russell. Lemme know when your time machine sends Hakeem back.

[Shastafarian]

You gonna have to change your name now that your buddy Dirk wants nothing to do with your sorry franchise? Maybe Mavs_man_31. Terry will lead you guys to the promised land.

[Mavs_man_41]

sick burn, guy who overrates old timers. anyway, it's a moot point. best defender of all time or 2nd best, you've already admitted he's a better defender than duncan. and it's obvious he's also the better offensive player. hakeem > duncan is the only point i'm trying to prove, have a nice day.

[Shastafarian]

Later Mavs_man_14

[HarlemHeat37]

As you already conceded, there are different factors that go into MVP voting so I'm not sure why you brought it up in the first place.

Players, no matter how good they are, don't get MVP votes when they're on .500 teams. And for most of those seasons you highlighted in Hakeem's career, those Houston teams were right around a .500 record and you explained 1991 with Hakeem's injuries.

Great players get more credit when their individual greatness in turn makes their team great. That was the case for Duncan's entire career. He played for great teams, 50+ win teams, teams that went deep in the playoffs year in and year out. That's why he would get greater MVP consideration season after season.

I understand that you acknowledge that other factors go into MVP voting, but I'm not sure why you brought this point up in the first place.

I'm bringing it up because there's absolutely no doubt that Olajuwon is remembered a lot better in today's NBA than he was during his own era..I don't think it's debatable..

Even though I already pointed out the flaws of MVP voting, it's still a decent gauge IMO, and there are plenty of guys that always get consideration for MVP, even when their team is around .500..just in recent years alone, there was Wade last year, Kobex2, Iverson, McGradyx2 that all finished in the top 5 in MVP voting, despite being on mediocre teams..

Olajuwon finished 12th in MVP voting, behind his own teammate Ralph Sampson..behind Bernard King and Jordan, 2 guys that were on horrible teams that year, which didn't stop them from getting a lot of votes..

He finished well behind Jordan and behind Barkley when their teams were similar to his in 1987..

He finished behind Dominique Wilkins with a similar team, and Barkley on a horrible team in 1988..

How did he finish behind Kenny Smith in 1991?..I understand the injury kept him lower in voting, but how can he fall back behind one of his average teammates?..

In 1992, Olajuwon's Rockets won 42 games and he didn't receive a single MVP vote..Detlef Schremf and Danny Manning received more votes, even though their teams were similar to Dream's..Barkley played for a bad team and still finished well ahead in MVP voting that year..

My point is that the way people talk about Olajuwon is strictly based on his 2-3 year peak IMO..people often take those 2-3 years and act like this was Olajuwon for his entire career..it wasn't..

I'm not necessarily talking about this thread, because this thread is only about "prime years", but it still confuses me as to how Olajuwon was remembered so differently during his own time..I'm not just talking about my own thoughts here, there have been plenty of arguments on forums like RealGM from the older guys there about Olajuwon being overrated from a career standpoint..

BTW, I'm not arguing that Duncan is better than Hakeem, I don't think he is, as I've already said..I'm just making the point that Olajuwon's legacy has been inflated, which I don't believe can be argued..in fact, from everything I've read and from everything I've heard of die-hards from that era, David Robinson was considered better for years until that 1 series, and I would imagine that this series had a lot to do with Hakeem's inflation..it undoubtedly had a lot to do with the fact that The Admiral is extremely underrated today, that's one of the primary things that today's fan remembers about him, which is sad..

[MaNu4Tres]

I'm bringing it up because there's absolutely no doubt that Olajuwon is remembered a lot better in today's NBA than he was during his own era..I don't think it's debatable..

Even though I already pointed out the flaws of MVP voting, it's still a decent gauge IMO, and there are plenty of guys that always get consideration for MVP, even when their team is around .500..just in recent years alone, there was Wade last year, Kobex2, Iverson, McGradyx2 that all finished in the top 5 in MVP voting, despite being on mediocre teams..

Olajuwon finished 12th in MVP voting, behind his own teammate Ralph Sampson..behind Bernard King and Jordan, 2 guys that were on horrible teams that year, which didn't stop them from getting a lot of votes..

He finished well behind Jordan and behind Barkley when their teams were similar to his in 1987..

He finished behind Dominique Wilkins with a similar team, and Barkley on a horrible team in 1988..

How did he finish behind Kenny Smith in 1991?..I understand the injury kept him lower in voting, but how can he fall back behind one of his average teammates?..

In 1992, Olajuwon's Rockets won 42 games and he didn't receive a single MVP vote..Detlef Schremf and Danny Manning received more votes, even though their teams were similar to Dream's..Barkley played for a bad team and still finished well ahead in MVP voting that year..

My point is that the way people talk about Olajuwon is strictly based on his 2-3 year peak IMO..people often take those 2-3 years and act like this was Olajuwon for his entire career..it wasn't..

I'm not necessarily talking about this thread, because this thread is only about "prime years", but it still confuses me as to how Olajuwon was remembered so differently during his own time..I'm not just talking about my own thoughts here, there have been plenty of arguments on forums like RealGM from the older guys there about Olajuwon being overrated from a career standpoint..

BTW, I'm not arguing that Duncan is better than Hakeem, I don't think he is, as I've already said..I'm just making the point that Olajuwon's legacy has been inflated, which I don't believe can be argued..in fact, from everything I've read and from everything I've heard of die-hards from that era, David Robinson was considered better for years until that 1 series, and I would imagine that this series had a lot to do with Hakeem's inflation..it undoubtedly had a lot to do with the fact that The Admiral is extremely underrated today, that's one of the primary things that today's fan remembers about him, which is sad..

Harlem FTW..

[Shastafarian]

But he was better than Bill Russell.

[djohn2oo8]

I'm bringing it up because there's absolutely no doubt that Olajuwon is remembered a lot better in today's NBA than he was during his own era..I don't think it's debatable..

Even though I already pointed out the flaws of MVP voting, it's still a decent gauge IMO, and there are plenty of guys that always get consideration for MVP, even when their team is around .500..just in recent years alone, there was Wade last year, Kobex2, Iverson, McGradyx2 that all finished in the top 5 in MVP voting, despite being on mediocre teams..

Olajuwon finished 12th in MVP voting, behind his own teammate Ralph Sampson..behind Bernard King and Jordan, 2 guys that were on horrible teams that year, which didn't stop them from getting a lot of votes..

He finished well behind Jordan and behind Barkley when their teams were similar to his in 1987..

He finished behind Dominique Wilkins with a similar team, and Barkley on a horrible team in 1988..

How did he finish behind Kenny Smith in 1991?..I understand the injury kept him lower in voting, but how can he fall back behind one of his average teammates?..

In 1992, Olajuwon's Rockets won 42 games and he didn't receive a single MVP vote..Detlef Schremf and Danny Manning received more votes, even though their teams were similar to Dream's..Barkley played for a bad team and still finished well ahead in MVP voting that year..

My point is that the way people talk about Olajuwon is strictly based on his 2-3 year peak IMO..people often take those 2-3 years and act like this was Olajuwon for his entire career..it wasn't..

I'm not necessarily talking about this thread, because this thread is only about "prime years", but it still confuses me as to how Olajuwon was remembered so differently during his own time..I'm not just talking about my own thoughts here, there have been plenty of arguments on forums like RealGM from the older guys there about Olajuwon being overrated from a career standpoint..

BTW, I'm not arguing that Duncan is better than Hakeem, I don't think he is, as I've already said..I'm just making the point that Olajuwon's legacy has been inflated, which I don't believe can be argued..in fact, from everything I've read and from everything I've heard of die-hards from that era, David Robinson was considered better for years until that 1 series, and I would imagine that this series had a lot to do with Hakeem's inflation..it undoubtedly had a lot to do with the fact that The Admiral is extremely underrated today, that's one of the primary things that today's fan remembers about him, which is sad..

Robinson recieved an MVP which clearly belonged to Hakeem, I don't think he was underrated. And saying Hakeem's legacy was inflated is just flat out stupid. Just look at the stats

[Lars]

Lot of Dream love in this thread

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't have to look at the stats, I obviously know Olajuwon was extremely impressive..I would put him in my top 10, I already said..

I'm curious as to why he's remembered so much differently by today's fans though..

[midnightpulp]

Robinson recieved an MVP which clearly belonged to Hakeem, I don't think he was underrated. And saying Hakeem's legacy was inflated is just flat out stupid. Just look at the stats

No it didn't. Robinson was the better player in the regular season that year on a 60 win team while Hakeem was on a 47 win team.

No matter, Hakeem won the MVP that really counts anyway. But David totally deserved the reg season MVP that year, it's indisputable.

[djohn2oo8]

I don't have to look at the stats, I obviously know Olajuwon was extremely impressive..I would put him in my top 10, I already said..

I'm curious as to why he's remembered so much differently by today's fans though..

Don't know, I guess some of the younger fans didn't see him play back then, and probably look at his moves and rate him high?

[TD 21]

Anyone saying Olajuwon would have "destroyed" Duncan has zero credibility. No one in the history of the game would have definitively destroyed Duncan. If you think Olajuwon's peak was better than Duncan's or that he was slightly better, that's one thing, but don't pretend like Olajuwon was in a different league, that's just flat out ridiculous.

I don't care how skilled or great defensively Olajuwon was, the reality is he was 6-9 1/2 - 6-10 (despite being listed at 7-0). How many players that size even gave Duncan problems?

For the umpteenth time I'll ask: If Duncan isn't that great, which is one again the sentiment I'm getting, then how did he accomplish all he did throughout his career? Keep in mind he never played with another clear cut hall-of-famer in their prime and his team almost never had a bloated payroll.

[Mavs_man_41]

I don't care how skilled or great defensively Olajuwon was, the reality is he was 6-9 1/2 - 6-10 (despite being listed at 7-0). How many players that size even gave Duncan problems?

he's 6'10, just like duncan

[TD 21]

Duncan is a full 6-11 barefoot. Olajuwon, I heard once was 6-9 1/2 - 6-10 (at most) barefoot.

[duhoh]

Anyone saying Olajuwon would have "destroyed" Duncan has zero credibility. No one in the history of the game would have definitively destroyed Duncan. If you think Olajuwon's peak was better than Duncan's or that he was slightly better, that's one thing, but don't pretend like Olajuwon was in a different league, that's just flat out ridiculous.

I don't care how skilled or great defensively Olajuwon was, the reality is he was 6-9 1/2 - 6-10 (despite being listed at 7-0). How many players that size even gave Duncan problems?

For the umpteenth time I'll ask: If Duncan isn't that great, which is one again the sentiment I'm getting, then how did he accomplish all he did throughout his career? Keep in mind he never played with another clear cut hall-of-famer in their prime and his team almost never had a bloated payroll.

sure, but same with hakeem with the first run. no other HoF on that squad. put duncan in the jordan era, and let's see what happens. no one is questioning duncan's greatness. but hakeem was a monster. GOAT post moves ever. he destroyed a prime admiral. duncan destroyed an old d-rob as a rookie, so there are things that can't be quantified by numbers alone.

but duncan's resume > hakeems

[Mavs_man_41]

Duncan is a full 6-11 barefoot. Olajuwon, I heard once was 6-9 1/2 - 6-10 (at most) barefoot.

duncan is about 6'10, he's an inch or so shorter than dirk. anyway do you really think an inch is going to matter when hakeem is dominating his ass?

[Shastafarian]

I hear Bill Russell is only 6'5 barefoot.

[MaNu4Tres]

sure, but same with hakeem with the first run. no other HoF on that squad. put duncan in the jordan era, and let's see what happens. no one is questioning duncan's greatness. but hakeem was a monster. GOAT post moves ever. he destroyed a prime admiral. duncan destroyed an old d-rob as a rookie, so there are things that can't be quantified by numbers alone.

but duncan's resume > hakeems

Duncan had to go through the most dominant big man of the past 30 years from 1999-2004 and came out of that with 2 les.

Shaquille O'Neal during this time was the most dominant big man since Wilt Chamberlain. Not skilled, but most dominant.

Shaq+Kobe during this era was better than any team Jordan faced. IMO


Also, Hakeem got the better of the Admiral in the 1995 WCF. But the Admiral still put up 24 points 11 rebounds 3.25 blocks during this series. So completely "destroying the Admiral" is a slight overstatement. And Robinson had got the better of Hakeem in may games outside of this one series. Using that one series as the sample for all of Robinson's prime is quite foolish.