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lol, like the Rockets could control who came out of the East. So, by that logic, Duncan never had to beat a prime Jordan at anytime because he retired again?
In a span of 2 years Hakeem went through the best big men the league had to offer (Ewing, Robinson, Shaq, Malone) and took them all down enroute to 2 straight les. I think that's more than comparable.
Shaq was dominant (as well as skilled) and a force to be reckoned with but you can't compare that to what Hakeem had to face to win his chips. Like I said before, Hakeem faced the best of the best one round after the other. When Duncan got through with Shaq everyone and their mother knew he had the le wrapped up facing whatever weakling Eastern conference opponent was being served up that year. When Hakeem was done with the Western Conference opponents he still had Ewing waiting for him in one Finals and Shaq in the next.Shaquille O'Neal during this time was the most dominant big man since Wilt Chamberlain. Not skilled, but most dominant.
Arguable. The Shaq/Penny Orlando Magic were just as good. If they didn't run into a Bulls team on a mission in '96 that would have most likely been their first le of many.Shaq+Kobe during this era was better than any team Jordan faced. IMO
Last edited by hitmanyr2k; 05-22-2010 at 07:38 PM.
lol, like the Rockets could control who came out of the East. So, by that logic, Duncan never had to beat a prime Jordan at anytime because he retired again?
arguments like this always ends up "my team bettah than yoh team" mudslinging.
anyway, it's a wash. neither can stop the other sufficiently enough to claim dominance. hakeem might have his way in the post but tim can always take him outside.
Shaq on the Lakers> Shaq on the Magic IMO.
That Shaq on the Lakers is where he won his MVP and Finals MVP's.
Duncan still went through great big men that were in their prime as well. Garnett, Dirk, Sheed to name a few.
In 1999 Duncan faced KG in the first round, Shaq in the second round, then a prime-Sheed/Sabonis/prime-Brian Grant(who was a stud).
In 2003 Duncan faced Amare in the 1st round, who had yet to hit his prime but still was a force winning Rookie of the Year, Shaq again in the 2nd round and Dirk in the WCF then went on to face Kenyon Martin and Mutombo.
I agree that Olajuwon faced tougher big men throughout that 2 year run he had, but not by the wide margin you are implying. Every year from 1999-2004 Duncan had to go through perhaps the most dominant force the NBA has seen since Wilt Chamberlain(Not just 2 years, 5 straight seasons). I'm not talking about 1995 Shaq-2 years in the league. I'm talking about the prime MVP Shaq. That Shaq I'm talking about is better than any big man Olajuwon had to face.
Shaq/Penny Orlando Magic were not as good.
Shaq on the Lakers was a different kind of beast. He was at his ultimate peak on the Lakers and Kobe was better than Penny and dominated 4th quarters as close as anyone I've seen outside of Jordan during the run him and Shaq had. IMO
I hope this is you trolling. Unless you wanna argue Shaq's prime was as brief as Hakeem's.
Tim Duncan faced Dirk Nowitzki, Rasheed Wallace, Kevin Garnett, and Shaquille O'neal. That last guy, Shaq, was a beast. At Shaq's prime he was more unguardable than ANY bigman since Kareem. Despite this Tim was asked to guard Shaq time after time when the Spurs met the Lakers in the playoffs. Tim would hold Shaq in check and then go right at him and score on offense.
Tim Duncan went up against the best defensive frontcourt in the NBA (2005 Pistons) since Boston's big three of the 80s on two bum ankles and STILL averaged about 20 points 15 boards, and 2 blocks.
Hakeem could have outplayed Tim, and Tim could have outplayed Hakeem. Those two in their primes were very comparable. Great poise and discipline on offense and defense, a laundry list of moves and countermoves, etc. In their primes Hakeem was probably better on defense and Tim had the more versatile and complete offensive game. Hakeem would not have CRUSHED Tim like many claim.
I'd suggest all you guys go here: http://www.basketball-reference.com/...h2h_finder.cgi
Compare Tim to ANY big man who pops into your head since Tim enetered the league and see if ANY of them managed to even outplay Tim, let alone dominate him.
Oh and here:
Let's see how Hakeem fared against DRob.
Ouch
Read the full post or stop using selective portions. Duncan beat the best team in his day, the Kobe Shaq Lakers. The Rockets never got to play Jordan's Bulls.
When people think of the NBA and the 90s they only think about Jordan and the 6 championships won by the Bulls. Not the 99 spurs or the 94-95 Rockets.
I don't give a what people remember about the 90's, saying that Hakeem didn't have to face Jordan makes his legacy less legit is about as dumb as they come. Oh, and so Duncan beat the Lakers by himself?
This is the of kind talk that happens when your team is out of the playoffs. Who ing cares?
bold statement there. stockton+malone was fricken incredible. to this day i can't believe that jordan got passed that. that utah squad was so good.
When I say team's Jordan faced, I meant the team's Jordan faced in his era (1991-1998). Not Bird or Magic's era.
And yes I'm pretty confident that the Shaq/Kobe teams from 1999-2004 was better than any team the Jazz put on the floor in the 90's.
Really? You ever watch the Bad Boys play?
It's called reading bud...
The post right before the one you just posted..
You might want to read it
For clarity read post #287, #288, #289, and #290 in sequence.
Read post #259 for further clarification, since most people are too lazy to read everything.
Last edited by MaNu4Tres; 05-23-2010 at 05:09 AM.
No. Tim from 99 to 06 is the greatest defender the league has had. It is a ing shame he doesn't have a DPOY award. Tim rarely went for pump fakes. Greatest one on one defender ever. Hakeem was good but people tend to salivate on some highlight reels of him. Prime Duncan had speed as well.
People forget Duncan beat a prime Kobe and Prime Shaq with a team full of role players. Parker and Manu were not good that season. Stephen Jackson was average. Kerr was ancient. Claxton played a good reserve role. Robinson was ancient and broken down. Bowen was torched by Kobe in 03. Duncan did it all.
So, no, Hakeem wouldn't tear him to shreds. Prime Duncan was a beast and has four rings to prove it.
Olajuwan tore a Prime Robinson to shreds, Duncan would get the same treatment. Book it.
Olajuwon was a center. Duncan a PF. Compare to Robinson, Nesterovic, and Oberto if you want to compare to a Spurs center.
You said "Hakeem was good." Ummmmmmm ok.
You can praise Duncan without demonstrating such crazy bias against Hakeem. He was just "good???"
Duncan didn't guard Kobe.
Hakeem beat a non-fat Shaq. Made Shaq look like Betty White out there. But that's not what his girlfriend says.
Hakeem in his (short) prime was the greatest big man to play the game. Unstoppable, unguardable on offense and a complete defensive force on defense, from shot blocking to rebounding to intimidation to steals to switching with the ability to step out and defend the perimeter as well as any big man up to that point. Elite big men like KG and Ben Wallace and Kenyon Martin, who had the athleticism and quickness to step out on the perimeter to defend, didn't really exist much before the 90s. Big men were strong and stiff. Hakeem wasn't.
Now post the playoff head-to-head stats.
Keep on quoting those statistics
I can't seem to find h2h playoff stats on basketballreference. Here's their playoffs totals from the year Hakeem "destroyed" Robinson.
Ok. Since you guys use them for ONE SERIES to prove Hakeem was so much better than Robinson, I'll use season stats to show that if he was, he sure didn't show it.
But hey, this guy could beat any big man into the ground. He just chose not to unless the year was 1994 or 1995 and it was the playoffs.
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