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Neither do some spurs fans asking why Nash's man Fisher was getting open shots.
Interesting.
http://www.cbs2.com/video/[email protected]
Neither do some spurs fans asking why Nash's man Fisher was getting open shots.
I think Bynum's just an idiot who doesn't pay attention in practice.
Watching the game last night, they actually did get some decent to good shots against the zone and just couldn't hit enough of them.
Sometimes people try to look too deep into the game, try to dissect it too much. When a team hits a lot of shots, any offense is going to look good. When teams struggle shooting the ball, it could be the best offense in the world and still look pedestrian.
It boggles my mind that a professional basketball player doesn't know what to do if facing the zone. Big men actually have it pretty easy. Go to the middle and find an open space. It's pretty much that simple to attack the zone. Go to the middle, let the defense react, look for open teammates cutting or spotting up once the defense collapses. If Bynum really has no clue what to do, that's more telling of him than Phil and the coaching staff not preparing for the zone.
Bynum was busy eating his fruit loops when they practiced how to deal with zone defense.
Sons I thought he was coo coo for coco puffs?
What an arrogant little . Notice how he avoids eye contact and looks over the interviewers the whole time?
Evidently, he's got better things to do than talk about the game to the Laker media.
He's a total bag.
Zone defense had a lucky game.
Last night's game was lost on the defensive end. Foul trouble by a lot of players and turnstile defense by Gasol.
If it was that easy to get inside a zone, nobody would use them. Bigs can get position in the middle of it, but that de per se isn't enough to force a zone to collapse. I'm pretty sure Bynum knows where to go in a zone offense.
Anyway, the triangle is also a zone offense. What the Lakers use to do is to form the triangle in the weakside, instead of doing it in the strongside. Bynum's positioning would be to flash to the other mid-post once the first pass is done.
I can perfectly see Phil Jackson almost never practising a zone offense and Bynum missing those few practices due to injury. A really crisp zone offense is built through practice and implies a really good zone defense to practice against - and Jackson won't lose time coaching zone defenses. A big reason for that is that a well coached triangle offense should at least be able to create some open outside shots against the best of the zones even if they aren't able to get the ball inside. They got some of those looks yesterday, but they weren't able to make the shots.
The Lakers aren't a dependable 3pt shooting team, it was a clever move by Gentry.
The big mouth .
If you had watched the video, Bynum specifically said he had no clue where to go against the zone.
Putting a big man in the middle of the zone where there is open space is where you start to attack the zone, unless you're content with just swinging the ball around the three point line. Can you score every single time doing that? No. But that's how you attack it. When the defense collapses, you get lanes for cutters or open jumpers out on the perimeter. That's basketball 101. That's basics. I'm sure there are more complicated ways to attack it with different zone offenses, but at the very least, a professional NBA big man should not be clueless where to go against a zone.
To make things clear as possible.
There are different types of zone defenses.
2:3 zone
3:2 zone
2:1:2 zone
1:3:1 zone
and some other less important combined defenses.
Each of these defenses has their strong points and each of them has its weaknesses . But each of them needs a little different approach to be dismantled.
Oh, and one more thing. Zone can not be beaten by one guy. It takes team work to be successful.
It will be interesting to see how will Lakers react.
Last edited by sendman; 05-24-2010 at 04:02 PM.
What's "putting a big man in the middle"? What's exactly "the middle"? And the most important thing attacking a zone is not where to move but when and how to move.
So, it's not "going to the middle". It depends on his initial positioning, the positioning of the teammates, opponents and where the ball is. For example, the movement Bynum has to do attacking a zone from a triple post offense is different than the one he'd do playing for some other zone offense (in fact, knowing the triangle should be everything he needed to attack a zone, at least theoretically). And that's what he means by "I had no idea where I was supposed to be at".
I'm pretty sure Bynum understands the point is to fill the open space in the middle to force the zone to collapse, but that alone won't help him much in a particular situation.
Against a zone defense, when the ball rotates to one side, the big man should flash to the high post, in the "middle of the zone" to an open area. You get a pass into him to force the defense to react. He either has a chance to attack the basket from there if the zone stays soft. If they do collapse on him, he should have one or more teammate open for jumpers or one or more teammates should cut towards the basket for a pass. That is the most basic way to attack a zone unless the offense is content to jack up jumpers. A high school big man should know this. Andrew Bynum specifically said he had no clue where to go in that clip. Apparently he doesn't understand that if he said he didn't know where to go.
I don't even know why you're arguing.
First off, you don't see the zone used a lot in the NBA because it is actually a very easy defense to beat. Depending on which zone is being used determines where you attack. The key with them all is to get in the middle where you distribute if it collapses or attack if it doesn't. If a 2-1-2 or 2-3 this can be accomplished by the guard penetrating and spliting the 2 defending guards. The easiest way if you have good passing bigs is to simply put him at the free throw an cut off him. In other words, you have already split the 2 defending guards. If a 1-2-2 or 1-3-1 you attack the defending guard with 2 guards to get to the middle or simply post the big at the free throw line extended (at the corner of the key). Once you are in the middle the zone collapses and any cutters will have a field day if the guy who penetrated has any passing skills. As sendman stated, a team effort is required for the spacing to take place. The keys are crisp passing, less dribbling, taking the open shot, boxing out and rebounding.
While taking a few 3's is needed, passing around the perimiter for 20 seconds and jacking a 3 as a foundation is a sure disaster in the making.
He said he had no idea where he was supposed to be.
Here's exactly what he said:
"what's about that zone that causes you guys so much problems?"
Bynum: "we're not working our offense against it and we look like it..uhh... they hold us... I had no idea where I was supposed to be at."
And no, that's not how the Lakers attack a zone from the triangle formation. The 5 doesn't flash to the high post.
And again, you keep ignoring that more difficult than the "where" is the "when".
Why do people keep posting banalities and generalities about attacking zones? This is about execution, re s. Crisp passing, team playing, get the ball inside and force the zone out of shape, post the bigs high and open space for cutters, bla bla bla... In the end you need to execute. If a big just stations himself at the elbow because "a big man should know his job is to attack the middle", that's not going to help much.
Bynum's point that they aren't used to play zones and therefore struggled is more than fair. In my opinion, it's also correct (in general and in this particular case).
Last edited by mogrovejo; 05-24-2010 at 06:22 PM.
Wow.
If they were attacking the zone with the triangle, don't you think Andrew would have known where to go?
Or do the Lakers not practice the triangle either?
As I've explained before, there are some tweaks. The triangle is created in the weakside, for example.
http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=63433
It seems Pau Gasol is another idiot who doesn't pay attention in practices.
Once again, individual players can perfectly know how to attack a zone in theory. Everybody does, that's pretty much a given at this level. But that's not enough.
Smh.
Bynum said he didn't know where he was supposed to be at. Why do you insist it was an issue of "when?"
Bynum saying he didn't know where he was supposed to be at suggests that when the Suns started playing zone, they deviated away from the triangle, otherwise he would have known where he was supposed to be.
Anyone with even a remedial knowledge of basic basketball knows that you attack the middle of a zone defense. Bynum's confusion wasn't an issue of "when." If it were, why didn't he say, "I didn't know when I was supposed to be at."
There have been multiple people in this very thread trying to explain the zone and how you attack it to you, but for some reason you refuse to ever acquiesce to ever not knowing everything about basketball. Maybe there's some statistic on a paid website that you can say supports your argument but you don't want anyone else to know about. Have at it, Dr. Naismith.
The 5 does flash to the high post to attack the zone in this Lakers offense -- sometimes the 4 does too... Gasol and Odom both very good at this and have a good chemistry with each other as usually the flash to the post by one is followed by that posted player receiving a pass and quickly passing to the other who has flashed to the low post or -- better yet -- the front of the hoop.
Maybe I'm misreading your post because while I disagree with your 2nd-to-last paragraph we seem to be in perfect agreement by your last.
Pathetic. Stop being so butthurt.
Yeah, Bynum just needs to know he should "attack the middle" and he'll be fine next time they face a zone.
Again, "attack the middle" isn't incorrect. Neither is the crisp passing. They're just banalities. Everybody wants to penetrate the zone. Do you think I or anyone else doesn't know that the goal is to get the ball inside the zone and force it to collapse? Heck, I've said it multiple times-.
LOL at re ness of thinking he's teaching people that when you face a zone you should "attack the middle". Really Sherlock? What a genius you are.
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And Bynum didn't know where he was supposed to be at any given moment during the possession. But maybe according to you he should just position himself in the high post and.... and what? Wait? Is that what you mean by attacking the middle? Can't you see how primitive that is?
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