So, Lakers don't know about zone defences!?

[mogrovejo]

The 5 does flash to the high post to attack the zone in this Lakers offense -- sometimes the 4 does too... Gasol and Odom both very good at this and have a good chemistry with each other as usually the flash to the post by one is followed by that posted player receiving a pass and quickly passing to the other who has flashed to the low post or -- better yet -- the front of the hoop.

Maybe I'm misreading your post because while I disagree with your 2nd-to-last paragraph we seem to be in perfect agreement by your last.

Nope. I'm pretty sure because I've actually seen film of this in a workshop. The 5 flashes to the opposite pinch post, the 4 generally moves to the wing. The primary option is to isolate O1 or O2 versus D4 in the corner.

[JamStone]

I don't even know why I even bother.

When the ball gets rotated to one side, the strong side, to the elbow. That's when the big man on the weak side positioned at the low post flashes up to the high post, "in the middle of the zone." At that point, what the offense wants to do is pass the ball from the elbow to the big man in the high post. The big man catches the ball and then immediately turns and faces the basket. A number of things can happen at this point. The defense can remain soft on that big man and dare him to shoot. If he can consistently knock down that free throw jumper, it's a great shot. If not and the defense still plays soft, his best option is to take a dribble in to attack the zone and force the bottom defenders to come at him. Now at that point or if the defense collapses to him immediately, that opens lanes behind those bottom defenders for other players in the offense to get behind the defense and slash to the basket. That's why it's optimal for the big man to be the one in the middle, because generally he'll be able to make passes over the top of defenses. If the defense collapses from the guards, it opens jumpers out on the perimeter.

This is the most basic way to attack a zone defense. Kids in grade school know this.

It is not the only way to attack the defense, but it is the most basic and generally the initial way a team will attack the defense unless they are a great jumpshooting team and/or are content to just jack jumpers.

The fact that Bynum does not know this is an indictment on him, and that's even if the Lakers have never ever practiced how to play against the zone. He should know this. He said he didn't know where he was supposed to be at. That's unforgivable for a professional basketball player not to know that.

Enough with your condescending talk. You talk down to people like you know everything about basketball and everyone else knows nothing. In the end, you come off extremely pretentious.

[JamStone]

Nope. I'm pretty sure because I've actually seen film of this in a workshop. The 5 flashes to the opposite pinch post, the 4 generally moves to the wing. The primary option is to isolate O1 or O2 versus D4 in the corner.

And now here comes an "I attended a workshop on this" comment?

Wow. Just. Wow.

[Venti Quattro]

GASOL is THE KEY to breaking the Phoenix Zone.

I guess cobbler said it here in another thread.

[mogrovejo]

I don't even know why I even bother.

When the ball gets rotated to one side, the strong side, to the elbow. That's when the big man on the weak side positioned at the low post flashes up to the high post, "in the middle of the zone." At that point, what the offense wants to do is pass the ball from the elbow to the big man in the high post. The big man catches the ball and then immediately turns and faces the basket. A number of things can happen at this point. The defense can remain soft on that big man and dare him to shoot. If he can consistently knock down that free throw jumper, it's a great shot. If not and the defense still plays soft, his best option is to take a dribble in to attack the zone and force the bottom defenders to come at him. Now at that point or if the defense collapses to him immediately, that opens lanes behind those bottom defenders for other players in the offense to get behind the defense and slash to the basket. That's why it's optimal for the big man to be the one in the middle, because generally he'll be able to make passes over the top of defenses. If the defense collapses from the guards, it opens jumpers out on the perimeter.

This is the most basic way to attack a zone defense. Kids in grade school know this.

It is not the only way to attack the defense, but it is the most basic and generally the initial way a team will attack the defense unless they are a great jumpshooting team and/or are content to just jack jumpers.

The fact that Bynum does not know this is an indictment on him, and that's even if the Lakers have never ever practiced how to play against the zone. He should know this. He said he didn't know where he was supposed to be at. That's unforgivable for a professional basketball player not to know that.

Enough with your condescending talk. You talk down to people like you know everything about basketball and everyone else knows nothing. In the end, you come off extremely pretentious.

Amazing.

Are you aware pretty much every 14 years old kid who plays basketball knows that? Yes? Are you aware that Bynum has played against zones multiples times in his life, including in the NBA career?

It's the execution, stupid. He was talking about the execution, stop with the lame fiction that he actually doesn't know the theoretical basics of a zone offense. Do you really think it's as easy as you described it? Just like Pau. Do you think Pau doesn't know how to attack a zone either?

And you're saying you're teaching me the basics of attacking a zone and I'm the pretentious and condescending one?

The guy saying "oh, I've been telling you that the way to attack a zone is to attack the middle and you still don't know that" is accusing others of condescension?

[JamStone]

Seriously, are you re-enacting the movie Dumb and Dumber?

YOU even quoted Bynum.

"I had no idea where I was supposed to be at."

Where. WHERE. WHERE.

Where did he say it was about execution? Where did he say it was an issue of "when" as you suggested earlier.

He didn't know WHERE he was supposed to be. Where.

WTH??

[JamStone]

Pau didn't say he didn't know where he was supposed to go. He didn't say they didn't practice against the zone. He said they're not used to playing against it. Two different things.

So we're not accustomed to playing against zone. And obviously it was noticeable tonight for the most part.

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=63433

It seems Pau Gasol is another idiot who doesn't pay attention in practices.

Once again, individual players can perfectly know how to attack a zone in theory. Everybody does, that's pretty much a given at this level. But that's not enough.

[JamStone]

Yeah, Bynum just needs to know he should "attack the middle" and he'll be fine next time they face a zone.

Again, "attack the middle" isn't incorrect. Neither is the crisp passing. They're just banalities. Everybody wants to penetrate the zone. Do you think I or anyone else doesn't know that the goal is to get the ball inside the zone and force it to collapse? Heck, I've said it multiple times-.

LOL at re ness of thinking he's teaching people that when you face a zone you should "attack the middle". Really Sherlock? What a genius you are.

Apparently at first you didn't think putting the big man in the middle was correct until I explained to you what that meant.

What's "putting a big man in the middle"? What's exactly "the middle"? And the most important thing attacking a zone is not where to move but when and how to move.

So, it's not "going to the middle". It depends on his initial positioning, the positioning of the teammates, opponents and where the ball is. For example, the movement Bynum has to do attacking a zone from a triple post offense is different than the one he'd do playing for some other zone offense (in fact, knowing the triangle should be everything he needed to attack a zone, at least theoretically). And that's what he means by "I had no idea where I was supposed to be at".

I'm pretty sure Bynum understands the point is to fill the open space in the middle to force the zone to collapse, but that alone won't help him much in a particular situation.

Amazing.

Are you aware pretty much every 14 years old kid who plays basketball knows that? Yes? Are you aware that Bynum has played against zones multiples times in his life, including in the NBA career?

That was my point. But you initially didn't know that, as I quoted your earlier post above.

It's the execution, stupid. He was talking about the execution, stop with the lame fiction that he actually doesn't know the theoretical basics of a zone offense. Do you really think it's as easy as you described it? Just like Pau. Do you think Pau doesn't know how to attack a zone either?

And you're saying you're teaching me the basics of attacking a zone and I'm the pretentious and condescending one?

You asked "what middle." You asked when the big man gets in the middle of the zone. I explained it to you. The least you could do is say thank you.


You didn't understand when he was to position himself in the middle of the zone in the following quote:

And Bynum didn't know where he was supposed to be at any given moment during the possession. But maybe according to you he should just position himself in the high post and.... and what? Wait? Is that what you mean by attacking the middle? Can't you see how primitive that is?

That's why I explained how to attack the zone in more detail. You didn't know what I meant when I said "attack the middle." So I explained. Now you get mad that I explained it to you. Just say thank you.

[cobbler]

Seriously, are you re-enacting the movie Dumb and Dumber?

YOU even quoted Bynum.

"I had no idea where I was supposed to be at."

Where. WHERE. WHERE.

Where did he say it was about execution? Where did he say it was an issue of "when" as you suggested earlier.

He didn't know WHERE he was supposed to be. Where.

WTH??

Don't even bother anymore. Mogrov is a pompus ass. You are correct. Bynum wasn't saying he knows where to go and just wasn't executing. Of course you have to execute once you get there. The ball isnt going to put itself in the basket. He said, and quite shockingly IMO, that he didn't know where to go. Judging by the fact that he didn't adjust one little bit once they implemented the zone, I would conclude that he indeed does not know.

@ Mogrov's workshop comment. Classic!

[Amuseddaysleeper]

This is almost as entertaining as the Boston/Orlando game

[Giuseppe]

No Mo tonite. His light ain't lit.

tee, hee.

[mogrovejo]

No Mo tonite. His light ain't lit.

tee, hee.

Shut up, Culby. I'm not of your kind.

Apparently at first you didn't think putting the big man in the middle was correct until I explained to you what that meant.

That was my point. But you initially didn't know that, as I quoted your earlier post above.

You asked "what middle." You asked when the big man gets in the middle of the zone. I explained it to you. The least you could do is say thank you.

You didn't understand when he was to position himself in the middle of the zone in the following quote:


What's why I explained how to attack the zone in more detail. You didn't know what I meant when I said "attack the middle." So I explained. Now you get mad that I explained it to you. Just say thank you.

I didn't know how to attack zone and neither did Bynum. Jamstone knows.

You've jumped the shark idiot. Lol at the re ness of interpreting everytghing literally.

A 6 years NBA veteran, a guy who has played against zones dozens and dozens of times, not knowing the basics of zone offense.

Once again: stop with the banalities. Nobody cares. Saying "you attack the zone by going to the middle" is a ing banality, an empty generality, that every 14 years old has heard multiple times.

Again: it was about the execution. That's what he meant. That's what I meant.

But maybe you're right and everything Phil Jackson has to do is to say "hey Bynum, here's what you have to do: attack the middle. Flash to the high post." and, dzang, it's done and next time Bynum will know where he needs to be!!

[cobbler]

Again: it was about the execution. That's what he meant. That's what I meant.

It's about execution. BRILLIANT!!! Any sub 14 year old would know that.

That is not what he meant. So I guess we can erase clairvoyant off your resume as the all knowing basketball expert.

[mogrovejo]

It's about execution. BRILLIANT!!! Any sub 14 year old would know that.

That is not what he meant. So I guess we can erase clairvoyant off your resume as the all knowing basketball expert.

Yes, it's obvious what he meant is that he didn't know he needed to go the high post.

Even though the 5 in the Lakers zone offense doesn't go to the high post.

[cobbler]

Yes, it's obvious what he meant is that he didn't know he needed to go the high post.

Even though the 5 in the Lakers zone offense doesn't go to the high post.

If you are talking a traditional triangle offense then you are correct he woud be between the low block and high post. The Lakers actually run the triangle only about half the time. And even when they do they do not always have Drew or Pau initiating at the traditional 5 spot. Often it is Odom or Artest.

But what do I know next to your vast experience and knowledge. I never attended a workshop!

[mogrovejo]

If you are talking a traditional triangle offense then you are correct he woud be between the low block and high post. The Lakers actually run the triangle only about half the time. And even when they do they do not always have Drew or Pau starting at the traditional 5 spot. Often it is Odom or Artest.

But what do I know next to your vast experience and knowledge. I never attended a workshop!

I'm talking about the Lakers zone offense. Can't you read? I wrote "Lakers zone offense". What's so difficult to understand about this? How the heck do you start a reply with "if you're talking about.."? If? Wasn't it clear enough for you what I was talking about?

And yeah, you don't know much. And I doubt you have the ability to learn in you.

[Def Rowe]

lol... I have no idea what Mogro is like in real life, but on the internet this guy a total .

[cobbler]

I'm talking about the Lakers zone offense. Can't you read? I wrote "Lakers zone offense". What's so difficult to understand about this? How the heck do you start a reply with "if you're talking about.."? If? Wasn't it clear enough for you what I was talking about?

And yeah, you don't know much. And I doubt you have the ability to learn in you.

I started the reply like I did because a triangle offensive team can attack the zone with the triangle and/or traditional offensive schemes. So when you are saying the Lakers zone offense it has many possibilities as they use both. Is that so difficult to understand? I think not.

And furthermore.... I would put my actual basketball resume up against your armchair "workshop" knowledge anytime.

[UV Ray]

Shut up, Culby. I'm not of your kind.

Again: it was about the execution. That's what he meant. That's what I meant.

Not saying what you meant is not a legitimate excuse for not saying what you meant.

[mogrovejo]

Here's, Lakers attacking a 2-3 zone.

Do you see the 5 "attacking the middle"? You don't?

Yeah, I thought so.

[cobbler]

lol... I have no idea what Mogro is like in real life, but on the internet this guy a total .

Blasphmy!!!! Mogro is all knowing and never ever wrong.

[mogrovejo]

[cobbler]

Here's, Lakers attacking a 2-3 zone.

Do you see the 5 "attacking the middle"? You don't?

Yeah, I thought so.

That is one possible play for one possible zone. Nice try. Did you pull that out of your workshop notebook?

And look where they 5 is in that play.... right where i said he would be in a traditional triangle. Not how the Lakers play... sorry

[cobbler]

Which one is you?

[HarlemHeat37]

LOL @ Gobbler questioning somebody's personality..this is the same guy that has said that joking about rape is acceptable..