How would a prime Olajuwon fare against a prime Duncan?

[wekko368]

- Kevin Garnett
- Shaq
- Rasheed Wallace
- Chris Webber
- Antonio McDyess
- Alonzo Mourning
- Hakeem Olajuwon
- Charles Barkley
- Shawn Kemp
- Karl Malone
- Dikembe Mutombo
- Patrick Ewing (had a more productive year even if he got injured right before the playoffs)
- Tom Gugliotta (yes he had a better year)
- Divac (yes he had a better year)
- Rik Smits (yes he had a better year)

First, let's keep in mind that in 1999, Robinson averaged 16 ppg on 51% shooting and had 10 rebounds per game. Secondly, since Robinson is a center, I'm only going to address the players that played center (at at least pf/c).

This precludes Gugliotta, Malone, Kemp, Barkley, McDyess, and Webber.

From your list, I think Robinson (16 ppg; 51%; 10 rpg) was better than:

Rasheed Wallace - 13 ppg; 51% fg; 5 rpg
Patrick Ewing - 17 ppg; 44% fg; 10 rpg
Rik Smits - 15 ppg; 49% fg; 5.6 rpg

And Robinson's numbers (percentages/rebounds ) were close enough to Olajuwon, Divac, and Mutombo that you couldnt say one was clearly better than the other.

So that means that Garnett, Shaq, Mourning, and Duncan were clearly better than Robinson, and since Olajuwon/Mutombo/Divac were similar, then its safe to say that Robinson was at least a top 8 PF/C and a top 6 C.

A top 6 center isn't a role player.

[EricD]

Rocket fans saying Duncan wasn't as an all around player like Hakeem.

Some opinions proving Duncan's dominance and versatility(all around skill) from Non-biased Rocket fans:

"He is probably the best player to ever play the position the way he plays it," said Utah coach Jerry Sloan, who coached Jazz great Karl Malone.

"I think all around, there's never been a big forward quite like him," said Hall of Fame coach and analyst Jack Ramsay. "Bob Pet was a great scorer and rebounder. Karl Malone was a more powerful player, but they didn't have the versatility Tim does. Kevin McHale was probably the best low-post, back-to-the-basket big forward, and he was a good defender, but he, too, couldn't do the things Duncan can do."

"He's pretty unique in how he plays," Pet said. "He can play with his back to the basket or facing it. I spent 95%-97% of the time facing the basket. He's pretty versatile as a player. It also seems that he's stepped it up in the playoffs."


"In my 20 years in the NBA, Duncan is the best big to play the game," says former Houston Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy. " O'Neal always had the benefit of a dominant perimeter player, from [Penny] Hardaway to [Kobe] Bryant to [Dwyane] Wade. Duncan has had very good players, but he's never had that dominant player, so that's why I give him the edge."



Page 1: Simmons on Duncan

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/070509

Quotes from Page 1: "Helplessly, we've watched him carry the Spurs to three les, a number that could have been five if not for Derek Fisher's miracle shot in 2004 and Manu Ginobili's stupid foul of Dirk Nowitzki last season."

Page 2: Simmons on Duncan

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/...yDate=20070514

Quotes from Page 2:

"For his entire prime, Duncan has been one of the top-three most untradeable players in the league.

You know why? Because he gives you a fantastic chance to win the championship every year, that's why. Maybe Karl Malone was better in '97 and '98, maybe Shaq exceeded him in '00 and '01, maybe KG matched him in '04 and Nowitzki matched him in '06 ... but overall, Duncan always seems to keep his teams in the hunt.

Here are San Antonio's numbers during his 10-year career: 559-239 during the regular season, 82-49 in the playoffs, three championships. Since the ABA/NBA merger, only four stars have been that consistently successful for a 10-year span: Bird, Magic, MJ and Shaq ... although I hesitate to put Shaq on that level because he's had six different teams get swept over the course of his career. But that's the list. Superstars like Kareem (nine playoff wins TOTAL in the four seasons before Magic arrived), David Robinson (never made a Finals before Duncan arrived), Hakeem Olajuwon (wildly unsuccessful for most of his prime), Patrick Ewing (played in only one Finals in his prime), Charles Barkley (ditto) and Karl Malone (played in four conference finals, never won a le) couldn't match Duncan's winning consistency over a 10-year period. "

Duncan's achievements: Bolded are the categories Duncan has over Olajuwon

# 4× NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
# 3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
# 2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)
# NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
# 12× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2010)
# 9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)
# 3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)
# All-NBA Third Team (2010)
# 8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)
# 5× All-Defensive Second Team (1998, 2004, 2006, 2009–2010)
# NBA All-Rookie First Team (1998)
# NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000)(Only irrelevant award)


Hakeem Olajuwon's achievements Bolded are the categories he has over Duncan)
# 2× NBA Champion (1994, 1995)
# NBA MVP (1994)
# 12× All-Star (1985-1990, 1992-1997)
# 2× Finals MVP (1994-1995)
# 2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1993-1994)
# 6× All-NBA First Team Selection (1987-1989, 1993-1994, 1997)
# 3× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1986, 1990, 1996)
# 3× All-NBA Third Team Selection (1991, 1995, 1999)
# 5× NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1987-1988, 1990, 1993-1994)
# 4× NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1985, 1991, 1996-1997)




It's also hilarious how Rocket fans point out how much Olajuwon was superior over Duncan on the defensive end, when Duncan has won 13 total NBA ALL Defensive Team(9 first team) to Olajuwon's 9 (5 first team) and Duncan still has at least 2 years left.

[The Franchise]

Of course you don't... because it wouldn't help your argument............

Did you not read the rest of the post? It has nothing to do with helping my argument. The Spurs won not just Tim so, as I said before, that has as much to do with your teammates as you. Place Hakeem in Duncan's place and I think your team would actually have more les. Give him the supporting cast Duncan had and Hakeem would be a basketball god.

[EricD]

But that's where your argument falls apart. Don't you see that?

[Shastafarian]

Go back and re-read all the posts about quality of teammates. I don't feel like posting all that again.

[The Franchise]

Go google Duncan vs Olajuwan and tell me it's just me.

[MaNu4Tres]

Go back and re-read all the posts about quality of teammates. I don't feel like posting all that again.

Shastafarian

That's what this has become.

You see any progress?

I don't

It's a waste of time and a stupid discussion to begin with.

[Shastafarian]

hakeem is flashier but duncan is just as effective

An entire thread boiled down in one semi-sentence...

[DesignatedT]

Did you not read the rest of the post? It has nothing to do with helping my argument. The Spurs won not just Tim so, as I said before, that has as much to do with your teammates as you. Place Hakeem in Duncan's place and I think your team would actually have more les. Give him the supporting cast Duncan had and Hakeem would be a basketball god.

Thats a weak argument. Enough with the hypothetical bull . Duncan has 4. Olajuwon has 2. Duncan has more achievements in almost every single category there is.

Not all these excuses. "Well Olajuwon would have won more with that cast or Olajuwon played against better opponents." Go preach on clutch fans with that weak . making excuses... all this has been.

[Phenomanul]

Nobody has yet to factor this in... but Duncan's reign at the top of the league (top 1-3 players) spanned nearly 9 years... the same can't be said for Olajuwon...

[MaNu4Tres]

Nobody has yet to factor this in... but Duncan's reign at the top of the league (top 1-3 players) spanned nearly 9 years... the same can't be said for Olajuwon...

Page 2: Simmons on Duncan

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/...yDate=20070514

Quotes from Page 2:

"For his entire prime, Duncan has been one of the top-three most untradeable players in the league.

You know why? Because he gives you a fantastic chance to win the championship every year, that's why. Maybe Karl Malone was better in '97 and '98, maybe Shaq exceeded him in '00 and '01, maybe KG matched him in '04 and Nowitzki matched him in '06 ... but overall, Duncan always seems to keep his teams in the hunt.

Here are San Antonio's numbers during his 10-year career: 559-239 during the regular season, 82-49 in the playoffs, three championships. Since the ABA/NBA merger, only four stars have been that consistently successful for a 10-year span: Bird, Magic, MJ and Shaq ... although I hesitate to put Shaq on that level because he's had six different teams get swept over the course of his career. But that's the list. Superstars like Kareem (nine playoff wins TOTAL in the four seasons before Magic arrived), David Robinson (never made a Finals before Duncan arrived), Hakeem Olajuwon (wildly unsuccessful for most of his prime), Patrick Ewing (played in only one Finals in his prime), Charles Barkley (ditto) and Karl Malone (played in four conference finals, never won a le) couldn't match Duncan's winning consistency over a 10-year period. "

[Mr.Robinson]

Did you not read the rest of the post? It has nothing to do with helping my argument. The Spurs won not just Tim so, as I said before, that has as much to do with your teammates as you. Place Hakeem in Duncan's place and I think your team would actually have more les. Give him the supporting cast Duncan had and Hakeem would be a basketball god.

Put Tim Duncan in the 94 and 95 Rockets and he wins those rings as well. He would have demolished Ewing and Robinson.

[noob cake]

Nobody has yet to factor this in... but Duncan's reign at the top of the league (top 1-3 players) spanned nearly 9 years... the same can't be said for Olajuwon...

Ming, Dwight, Pau, Bosh, Jefferson? aka scrubs in the 90's

[Mr.Robinson]

Ming, Dwight, Pau, Bosh, Jefferson? aka scrubs in the 90's

Troll. If Kevin Willis was able to pull down 15 boards a game in one season in the 90's Dwight might have gotten 20. Come on. AKA scrubs...LOL

[sook]

Rocket fans saying Duncan wasn't as an all around player like Hakeem.

Some opinions proving Duncan's dominance and versatility(all around skill) from Non-biased Rocket fans:

"He is probably the best player to ever play the position the way he plays it," said Utah coach Jerry Sloan, who coached Jazz great Karl Malone.

"I think all around, there's never been a big forward quite like him," said Hall of Fame coach and analyst Jack Ramsay. "Bob Pet was a great scorer and rebounder. Karl Malone was a more powerful player, but they didn't have the versatility Tim does. Kevin McHale was probably the best low-post, back-to-the-basket big forward, and he was a good defender, but he, too, couldn't do the things Duncan can do."

"He's pretty unique in how he plays," Pet said. "He can play with his back to the basket or facing it. I spent 95%-97% of the time facing the basket. He's pretty versatile as a player. It also seems that he's stepped it up in the playoffs."


"In my 20 years in the NBA, Duncan is the best big to play the game," says former Houston Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy. " O'Neal always had the benefit of a dominant perimeter player, from [Penny] Hardaway to [Kobe] Bryant to [Dwyane] Wade. Duncan has had very good players, but he's never had that dominant player, so that's why I give him the edge."



Page 1: Simmons on Duncan

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/070509

Quotes from Page 1: "Helplessly, we've watched him carry the Spurs to three les, a number that could have been five if not for Derek Fisher's miracle shot in 2004 and Manu Ginobili's stupid foul of Dirk Nowitzki last season."

Page 2: Simmons on Duncan

http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/...yDate=20070514

Quotes from Page 2:

"For his entire prime, Duncan has been one of the top-three most untradeable players in the league.

You know why? Because he gives you a fantastic chance to win the championship every year, that's why. Maybe Karl Malone was better in '97 and '98, maybe Shaq exceeded him in '00 and '01, maybe KG matched him in '04 and Nowitzki matched him in '06 ... but overall, Duncan always seems to keep his teams in the hunt.

Here are San Antonio's numbers during his 10-year career: 559-239 during the regular season, 82-49 in the playoffs, three championships. Since the ABA/NBA merger, only four stars have been that consistently successful for a 10-year span: Bird, Magic, MJ and Shaq ... although I hesitate to put Shaq on that level because he's had six different teams get swept over the course of his career. But that's the list. Superstars like Kareem (nine playoff wins TOTAL in the four seasons before Magic arrived), David Robinson (never made a Finals before Duncan arrived), Hakeem Olajuwon (wildly unsuccessful for most of his prime), Patrick Ewing (played in only one Finals in his prime), Charles Barkley (ditto) and Karl Malone (played in four conference finals, never won a le) couldn't match Duncan's winning consistency over a 10-year period. "

Duncan's achievements: Bolded are the categories Duncan has over Olajuwon

# 4× NBA Champion (1999, 2003, 2005, 2007)
# 3× NBA Finals MVP (1999, 2003, 2005)
# 2× NBA Most Valuable Player (2002–2003)
# NBA Rookie of the Year (1998)
# 12× NBA All-Star (1998, 2000–2010)
# 9× All-NBA First Team (1998–2005, 2007)
# 3× All-NBA Second Team (2006, 2008–2009)
# All-NBA Third Team (2010)
# 8× All-Defensive First Team (1999–2003, 2005, 2007–2008)
# 5× All-Defensive Second Team (1998, 2004, 2006, 2009–2010)
# NBA All-Rookie First Team (1998)
# NBA All-Star Game MVP (2000)(Only irrelevant award)


Hakeem Olajuwon's achievements Bolded are the categories he has over Duncan)
# 2× NBA Champion (1994, 1995)
# NBA MVP (1994)
# 12× All-Star (1985-1990, 1992-1997)
# 2× Finals MVP (1994-1995)
# 2× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (1993-1994)
# 6× All-NBA First Team Selection (1987-1989, 1993-1994, 1997)
# 3× All-NBA Second Team Selection (1986, 1990, 1996)
# 3× All-NBA Third Team Selection (1991, 1995, 1999)
# 5× NBA All-Defensive First Team Selection (1987-1988, 1990, 1993-1994)
# 4× NBA All-Defensive Second Team Selection (1985, 1991, 1996-1997)




It's also hilarious how Rocket fans point out how much Olajuwon was superior over Duncan on the defensive end, when Duncan has won 13 total NBA ALL Defensive Team(9 first team) to Olajuwon's 9 (5 first team) and Duncan still has at least 2 years left.

i don't understand how you are even remotely trying to justify duncan being a better defensive player.

Sorry but your making yourself out as an extreme ass clown.
TD is great, but don't make the mistake of calling him better than the best two way player ever, especially on the defensive end.

Career achievements are just a smokescreen you are using. Duncan played in a cupcake era compared to the 80s and early 90s

[Mr.Robinson]

i don't understand how you are even remotely trying to justify duncan being a better defensive player.

Sorry but your making yourself out as an extreme ass clown.
TD is great, but don't make the mistake of calling him better than the best two way player ever, especially on the defensive end.

Career achievements are just a smokescreen you are using. Duncan played in a cupcake era compared to the 80s and early 90s

It works both ways with eras. Duncan would do it all in the 80's and 90's just like Hakeem. Not like Tim was soft.

[wekko368]

It works both ways with eras. Duncan would do it all in the 80's and 90's just like Hakeem. Not like Tim was soft.

Actually, it doesn't work both ways. Its a safe assumption that accomplishments achieved in a more difficult era can be replicated in an easier era.

However, you cannot assume that accomplishments made in an easier era can be replicated in a more difficult era.

Does anything think Wilt can score 100 pts in a modern day game?

[The Franchise]

Put Tim Duncan in the 94 and 95 Rockets and he wins those rings as well. He would have demolished Ewing and Robinson.

I know you aren't that bad off!

[TampaDude]

i don't understand how you are even remotely trying to justify duncan being a better defensive player.

Sorry but your making yourself out as an extreme ass clown.
TD is great, but don't make the mistake of calling him better than the best two way player ever, especially on the defensive end.

Career achievements are just a smokescreen you are using. Duncan played in a cupcake era compared to the 80s and early 90s

[djohn2oo8]

Put Tim Duncan in the 94 and 95 Rockets and he wins those rings as well. He would have demolished Ewing and Robinson.

[djohn2oo8]

So some Spurfans are going on accomplishments to why Duncan is actually close to Hakeem. Well, since Horry has 7 rings, than he must be better than MJ

[Mr.Robinson]

So some Spurfans are going on accomplishments to why Duncan is actually close to Hakeem. Well, since Horry has 7 rings, than he must be better than MJ

Jordan won 6 as the number one option.
Jabbar won 4
Duncan 4.
Who has more than Duncan as the man?
Shaq had 3.
Magic had 2.
Bird had 3.

[djohn2oo8]

Jordan won 6 as the number one option.
Jabbar won 4
Duncan 4.
Who has more than Duncan as the man?
Shaq had 3.
Magic had 2.
Bird had 3.

Those are different eras that you're comparing. Put Duncan in the 80's-90's and see how many he gets as the main man, not saying that he is not a great player, but there was FAR better compe ion then than now

[kingmalaki]

In 01 Duncan averaged 23 and 12. In 02 he had like 29 and 17 or so. I believe that's abuse. In 04 despite being able to guard Duncan one on one at times Malone had help because the Lakers were allowed to clog the paint because the Spurs were shooting somethng like 20% from the 3 point line in that series. Duncan still had 21 and 12 in that series. Anything else?

Why are you omitting the FG%'s (which I already listed btw), which all declined from the regular season?

[kingmalaki]

Robinson from 1999-2003 painfully regressed due to an 89 year old back. He was half the player then and was simply a role player.

Yet he was the one always holding Shaq and other top pivots, and not that Timmy guy. So if you are touting the teams defensive performance, then it's silly not to include the guy responsible for stopping folks.

And Simmons isn't really an expert on the game of basketball, as to where quoting him really means anything.