tbh, the only ones talking right now are the Brazilian players.
http://globoesporte.globo.com/futebo...-o-brasil.html
Crude on his part, but pretty much true, although bringing up past conquests from brasil is kinda dumb, as it means pretty much nothing when talking about performance in this cup. He mentions that you guys have messi, best in the world, but we're a deeper team, and Kaka could also make a case for best in the world when healthy (which he will be), so in case that the two teams do match up, he brings up good points.
Kid still needs to shut the up and play, this isn't our style.
I do think Brazil has the deeper team, not to mention the better coach (not that that says much) but Kaka couldn't sniff Messi's boxer shorts on his best dayGive me a break.
Not that any of this matters. Spain is probably going to steam roll its way to the finals, including Brazil if they get on their way. Brazilians like to act like they are always the favorites to win it all, but where the were they back in 2006? Too busy claiming to be the best they forgot to play like them.
I think what happened in '06 is one of the biggest reasons why I feel good about this year.I do think Brazil has the deeper team, not to mention the better coach (not that that says much) but Kaka couldn't sniff Messi's boxer shorts on his best day
Not that any of this matters. Spain is probably going to steam roll its way to the finals, including Brazil if they get on their way. Brazilians like to act like they are always the favorites to win it all, but where the were they back in 2006? Too busy claiming to be the best they forgot to play like them.
And please, if Messi is Lebron, Kaka is at the very least Dwayne Wade, with Ronaldo being like Kobe. Don't be blinded by homerism here
What do you expect from Nazi sympathizers?
lol irony
Kaka used to be a great player but now he isn't even a starter anymore, maybe he wakes up in the WC but as of right now he's like a Vince Carter (a washed up star, that was brought to a contender to help them win a championship but has highly dissapointed)
"The sports forum"? Your obsession is leading you to unknown territory.
I'll agree 100% with disapointment in Real, but as anyone who actually follows the leagues will tell you, much of his time there was plagued by injuries. Not to mention Real dumbasses pretty much shot themselves in the foot by getting both Ronaldo and Kaka, who are extremely similar players that would never work together. We'll see how he fairs when he eventually goes to Chelsea this season (very high possibility)
And please, washed up lol? Guy is 28, won player of the year in 07, got 4th in 08, and won the confederations cup golden ball last year. Also, clearly you havn't watched any of brasil's games lately if you think Kaka is a washed up Vince Carter with minimal game left. I'll let his play in the tournament next month speak for itself though
Messi is probably the world's humblest soccer superstar...
well I feel I gotta give my 2 cents since there are argentines in denial here....
I gotta agree that the racism in Argentina is extreme and a daily occurrence. Argentines are famous to say "there is no racism here because there is no black ppl here"
well even then they still daily use the word "negro" this "negro" that dirty negro, etc, etc
Indio is another word they use despectively on a daily basis I might add.
Let's not forget even the National Cons ution of Argentina is racist. They "promote" immigration from white Europe. Look it up.
Their racism against ppl from Chile, Peru, Bolivia and Paraguay is known all over South America. Mainly because those countries have heavy indian descent.
But they don't leave out the Spanish, "gallegos", jewish, blacks and jipsys.
In soccer, the racism multiplies by 100
here is a video of a colombian player brought to tears due to Argentine racism:
http://depor.pe/noticia/461985/colom...stas-argentina
another example is the chant by fans River Plate, San Lorenzo y Vélez Sársfield when they play Boca (a team whose fans are immigrants):
"Son la mitad más uno,/
son de Bolivia y Paraguay.
Yo a veces me pregunto,/
che, negro sucio, si te bañás.
Bosta que asco te tengo,/
lavate el culo con aguarrás".
"you are half of one, you are from Bolivia and Paraguay
I ask sometimes, you dirty negro do you bathe?
I am so disgusted, wash your ass with alcohol"
Last edited by nkdlunch; 05-27-2010 at 11:02 AM.
havent read the whole thread, just page 2. And first off I'll say i agree with FFaddicted about Kaka. If they are all healthy I'lll take a real playmaker like him over a dribbler like cr9/ronaldinho/messi. Kaka is a great great player, he can do it all and very smart. he's only had one bad year (this last), and in his defence he was injured, on a new team, with a defensive minded coach and a roster full of offensive players. it was a disaster waiting to happen.
as for nkdlunch's post-
1) argentina has racism, probably more than most countries on average, but by no means the worst. show me one country without a racist, i've been to every continent and haven't found one yet.
2) the examples you gave are re ed. in my white argentine family, everyone calls my uncle "indio" because he grew up in the country side and is a veterinarian- he loves the heritage. my momma lovingly calls me negro to this day and I'm pale enough to scare a swede, not to mention several friends affectionately called negro, gordo, flaco, etc. do some people use those words negatively? sure. but they also have affectionate uses. argentines use a lot of nicknames. we call messi "the flea" and maradona "lint", and they are universally loved by all argentines. its a much bigger insult to call someone "muerto de hambre" than "negro".
as for chile/peru/bolivia/paraguay- chile gets its bad rap because pinochet supported the british in the falklands war, not because there is a heavy indian descent. there are very few indians left here (in chile, i live here now) and are barely even visible to argentines. peru/bolivia/paraguay get mocked because they have large immigrant communities in argentina, much like mexicans and asians get mocked in the US. yeah, it sucks, i dont like it, but its not because they are more or less indian.
the colombian player who's video you linked, plays for the team I support so I remember the incident very well. he just signed for the team and had gotten very few minutes and in one of his first big chances, towards the end of a game we were losing (which we should have won, this was the equivalent of the clippers beating the lakers), he made a very rough challenge on another player and was shown a red card, the rules committee gave him i think a 1 week suspension. 3 days later he appears to the media crying, saying he was provoked by racist insults and that the punishment was unfair. the player who he accused sent him a letter telling him to make it a formal accusation or take it back- guess what, he took it back. now, I'm not saying nobody called him negro, but if it was like he said he would have pressed on with charges, or made it known during or after the game. not after getting a 1 week suspension, and not backing down once challenged. are you telling me that guys like KG, sheed, gary payton dont talk racist to their opponents? argentine futbol is full of blacks from colombia and ecuador, even some from nigeria, ghana. unless you can show me an example of one of them getting on by their own teammates, you don't have a point here at all.
the soccer fan chants are intentionally crude and provocative. again, it sucks, i dont like it, but thats not all they sing about. they sing about ing your sister, they'll make fun of a player's family death, everything is fair game. until i see an argentine crowd howl monkey sounds to a black player/team like spanish ones regularly do, I'll consider it more bad taste than racism.
3) you know, writing all this got me thinking... I think the country with the best race relations I've been to might be australia... you know whats funny about it? on a daily basis, you'll here people call each other every manner of offensive racial and sexual slur... and laugh it right off. I think that is way healthier than pretending that we're all the same when we clearly aren't. anyways, carry on hating
oh and about south americans in general- very xenophobic and hateful to all their neighbors. nationalism is a much bigger problem than racism IMO
I never said they were the worst.
that in itself is racist(the fact you are acknowledging it's an insult), you just don't realize it as it's instilled in you by your argentine cultureits a much bigger insult to call someone "muerto de hambre" than "negro".
argentina also has a lot of white european immigrants yet you rarely hear them being mocked on a daily basis or by thousands in a soccer stadium.as for chile/peru/bolivia/paraguay- chile gets its bad rap because pinochet supported the british in the falklands war, not because there is a heavy indian descent. there are very few indians left here (in chile, i live here now) and are barely even visible to argentines. peru/bolivia/paraguay get mocked because they have large immigrant communities in argentina, much like mexicans and asians get mocked in the US. yeah, it sucks, i dont like it, but its not because they are more or less indian.
plenty of examples. Just attend a game and you'll seethe colombian player who's video you linked, plays for the team I support so I remember the incident very well. he just signed for the team and had gotten very few minutes and in one of his first big chances, towards the end of a game we were losing (which we should have won, this was the equivalent of the clippers beating the lakers), he made a very rough challenge on another player and was shown a red card, the rules committee gave him i think a 1 week suspension. 3 days later he appears to the media crying, saying he was provoked by racist insults and that the punishment was unfair. the player who he accused sent him a letter telling him to make it a formal accusation or take it back- guess what, he took it back. now, I'm not saying nobody called him negro, but if it was like he said he would have pressed on with charges, or made it known during or after the game. not after getting a 1 week suspension, and not backing down once challenged. are you telling me that guys like KG, sheed, gary payton dont talk racist to their opponents? argentine futbol is full of blacks from colombia and ecuador, even some from nigeria, ghana. unless you can show me an example of one of them getting on by their own teammates, you don't have a point here at all.
so monkey sounds are a nono but "dirty smelly negro" "go back to africa" is ok with youthe soccer fan chants are intentionally crude and provocative. again, it sucks, i dont like it, but thats not all they sing about. they sing about ing your sister, they'll make fun of a player's family death, everything is fair game. until i see an argentine crowd howl monkey sounds to a black player/team like spanish ones regularly do, I'll consider it more bad taste than racism.
IMO the country with best race relations is Brazil. I don't know why maybe because those brazilian women make everything better or maybe because of the samba, but rarely do you publicly daily hear racist stuff in brazil.3) you know, writing all this got me thinking... I think the country with the best race relations I've been to might be australia... you know whats funny about it? on a daily basis, you'll here people call each other every manner of offensive racial and sexual slur... and laugh it right off. I think that is way healthier than pretending that we're all the same when we clearly aren't. anyways, carry on hating
BTW I love argentina, I don't hate. I just turn my racism radar off when there and have a good time. It's like if someone was visiting the American South
No I saw the word Argentina from the main page and knew there were lols to be had.
-I gave you examples of people using negro affectionately. Plenty of public figures are called negro- players, musicians... its more of a nickname than it is an insult. it can be used as an insult, but so can black in the US- in fact, black has much more negative connotations in the US than negro does in Argentina.that in itself is racist(the fact you are acknowledging it's an insult), you just don't realize it as it's instilled in you by your argentine culture
argentina also has a lot of white european immigrants yet you rarely hear them being mocked on a daily basis or by thousands in a soccer stadium.
plenty of examples. Just attend a game and you'll see
so monkey sounds are a nono but "dirty smelly negro" "go back to africa" is ok with you
-those white european immigrants are no longer immigrants, they are the general populace. or do people still call italians, irish, polish, and african americans for that matter immigrant communities in the states?
-plenty of examples of a player from one team ting on his black teammate, and you cant give me one? please, just one. its not the same thing at all to cite trash talking from rivals. and FYI, even though i dont live there anymore i've attended over 20 games in argentina from 1986-2001.
-I said its not the same thing for the barras (which are smaller groups like the baseline bums in the hemisfair days, only more criminal) who intentionally provoke their rivals to talk through song, than it is for the crowd at large to make a concerted insult, whether it be by chanting or howling or whatever. to me its a big difference. or are the trolls on this site indicative of normal people's public at udes in the states? (the worst part about this comparison is that the trolls here are actually more grounded individuals than the criminals in the barras)
ps: I havent been to brazil in some time, but the last time I went I thought race relations were quite bad. My aunt lived there over 20 years and had some sad stories to tell about it (she was actually married to a black jazz drummer and endured a lot of it first hand).
This thread has gotten all whacked and the bog issue at hand isn't being addressed:
the Argies demanded 14 types of salad with meals. 14. Divas.
First of all, I want to say that that bull that in Argentina 90% of the people are white is a lie, travel across the entire country and you'll find out.
The % must be 60% whites 40% other races (mostly mestizos) and if you really want to get picky about it, only 1% of the population must be trully white.
Second, words aren't as important here as in the US, we aren't afraid of saying "negro", maybe because there aren't many black people here but the fact that a guy says "negro de mierda" ( ing ######) doesn't mean that that person is a racist. My nickname is "negro" and is an affectionate one obviously, but a lot of my friends and family members have called me "negro de mierda" when they get angry at me or even as a joke. I've said "negro de mierda" lots of time and I can assure you that I'm not a racist. For us actions speak louder than words.
WTF? our National Cons ution promotes inmigration from anywhere not just from white people, in fact most of the inmigrants that come to Argentina are mestizos from Paraguay and Bolivia, you won't get any Arizona crap in here.Let's not forget even the National Cons ution of Argentina is racist. They "promote" immigration from white Europe. Look it up.
That's nationalism or xenophobia not racism, and that's a thing that comes from only a few stupid people that exisist everywhere not only in Argentina. , you see like this in SpursTalk everyday.Their racism against ppl from Chile, Peru, Bolivia and Paraguay is known all over South America. Mainly because those countries have heavy indian descent.
But they don't leave out the Spanish, "gallegos", jewish, blacks and jipsys.
Refer to the "words don't mean much here" part, lots of the people that use those kind of chants are mestizos. It's a cultural thing, it may seem wrong to you but we don't give it too much thought here. Either way is wrong and that's why AFA (Argentine football association) is working hard to eradicate that kind of behaviour.In soccer, the racism multiplies by 100
here is a video of a colombian player brought to tears due to Argentine racism:
http://depor.pe/noticia/461985/colom...stas-argentina
another example is the chant by fans River Plate, San Lorenzo y Vélez Sársfield when they play Boca (a team whose fans are immigrants):
"Son la mitad más uno,/
son de Bolivia y Paraguay.
Yo a veces me pregunto,/
che, negro sucio, si te bañás.
Bosta que asco te tengo,/
lavate el culo con aguarrás".
"you are half of one, you are from Bolivia and Paraguay
I ask sometimes, you dirty negro do you bathe?
I am so disgusted, wash your ass with alcohol"
P/S: Bonilla didn't feel discriminated, just wanted to seem like a victim so the AFA wouldn't suspend him for a thousands matches for almost amputating a guy's leg on the pitch
In Argentina "negro" isn't an insult, it's only seen as one if you use it next to an insult and in a derogatory way. But the word "negro" in itself isn't an insult, like "######" may be in the US.
Argentina doesn't have a lot of white Europens inmigrants, most of Argenitina inmigrant population right now are Bolivian, Paraguayan and Asian. Argentina had a lot of Euro inmigration in the early days (when it wasn't even a country yet) and that's the reason for the big amount of white people in this country but there isn't a big inmigration of Europeans nowadays, in fact there's close to none.argentina also has a lot of white european immigrants yet you rarely hear them being mocked on a daily basis or by thousands in a soccer stadium.
And that thing you call racism against countries like Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay, etc. happens also with Brazil, Spain, England, etc. It's not racism, is nationalism, xenophobia if you want and it happens for different reason: Brazil (football rivalry), Chile and England (Falklands war), Spain (our motherland). But I repeat it's a thing that comes from the minority and it happens everywhere or are you saying that the US doesn't have that kind of relationship with Canada, Mexico, England, France, etc? Don't be so hypocrite please.
Please gave us all those examples of Argentine players beign racist to their own teammates.plenty of examples. Just attend a game and you'll see
All that is wrong, but because a guy says something to a rival to try to mess with his head in a match doesn't mean that that guy is a racist in his everyday life.so monkey sounds are a nono but "dirty smelly negro" "go back to africa" is ok with you
LMAO Argentine wants to see examples of teamates being racist to one another
is that the onlly proof that they are racist? Newsflash: If they are racist to the opponent team, they are racist If the thousands of fans are racist to the opponent player, they are racist. Not that I expected an argentine to know that.
again, just attend a game where they play Boca Juniors and you'll see racism 100% guaranteed
if the guy says something racist, he is a racist. get it right.
Well, then I guess Garnett and a lot of other NBA players are racists too. And all the people in SpursTalk saying things like "fat s", "Greeks suck", "lol jew", etc. are also racists.
If every person that says something racist in his life is a racist then every single person in the world is racist. I don't know about you but I care more about actions than words. Think about it, Who's really the racist person: a guy that says ######, use those football chants that you talk about, etc. but then has friends of other races and doesn't treat people differently based on the color of their skins or a guy that never says anything racist but tries to avoid and looks down at people from other ethnicities?
Do you realize how silly you sound when you say that there are "plenty of examples" and then you can't came up with anything?LMAO Argentine wants to see examples of teamates being racist to one another
is that the onlly proof that they are racist? Newsflash: If they are racist to the opponent team, they are racist If the thousands of fans are racist to the opponent player, they are racist. Not that I expected an argentine to know that.
again, just attend a game where they play Boca Juniors and you'll see racism 100% guaranteed
wikipedia
"White-European" racism and Article 25 of the Cons ution
In Argentina an extensive racist ideology has been built on the notion of European supremacy.[24] This ideology forwards the idea that Argentina is a country populated by European immigrants "bajados de los barcos" (straight off the boat), frequently referred to as "our grandfathers", who founded a special type of "white" and European society that is not Latin-American.[25] In addition, this ideology holds forth that cultural influences from other communities such as the Aborigines, Africans, Latin-Americans, or Asians are not relevant and even undesirable. White-European racism in Argentina shares similarities with the White Australia policy that was practiced during the beginning of the 20th century.
White-European racism in Argentina has a history of government participation. The ideology even has a legal foundation that was set forth in Article 25 of the National Cons ution sponsored by Juan Bautista Alberdi. The article establishes a difference between European immigration (which should be encouraged) and non-European immigration.
Article 25: The Federal Government will encourage European immigration; and will not restrict, limit, nor tax the entry of any foreigner into the territory of Argentina who comes with the goal of working the land, bettering industry, or introducing or teaching sciences or the arts.
Alberdi, the article's sponsor and the father of the Argentine Cons ution of 1853, explained in his own words the basis for White-European discrimination:
If you were to put the roto (literally "broken"), the gaucho, the cholo, the basic element of our popular masses, through the finest educational system; in one hundred years you would not make him an English worker who works, consumes, and lives comfortably and in a dignified manner[26]
The discrimination between European and non-European immigration established by Article 25 of the Cons ution has survived all subsequent cons utional reforms (1860, 1868, 1898, 1949, 1957, 1972 and 1994).
Originally this ideology had been structured to include immigrants of Spanish, Italian, and Jewish origin in the undesirable category, claiming that the "races which could improve the species" in Argentina where those that originated from northwestern Europe, chiefly England and France.
Racism against other Latin-Americans
Paraguayans and Bolivians were the two principal sources of Latin American immigrants to Argentina in 2007. It is estimated that almost 5% of the population in Argentina is from Paraguay or Bolivia, or has Bolivian or Paraguayan ancestors.[39][40]
In this cultural context, fans of one of the most well-known football clubs in the country regularly sing in unison a song aimed at denigrating the fans of one of the club's classic rival (Boca Juniors), calling them " negroes from Bolivia and Paraguay" [41].
Another well-known incident was the racially motivated murder of Marcelina Meneses and her ten month old son Josua Torrez who were pushed under a moving train near the Avellaneda station on July 10, 2001. The Bolivian community in Argentina protested with the slogan "Do not forget Marcelina".[42]
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