minor and major(college)

[Cry Havoc]

Generally... everything.

Specifically... that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on career and earning that someone as young as you (I'm assuming standard college age?) would have already accepted a future of 30-40 years working a miserable job to pay the bills rather than pursuing something more interesting and fulfilling that may not be as secure. It's an at ude I see frequently within my younger fellow students.

And it's an at ude I see far more frequently now than I did when I was that age, when an undeclared major was common and it was pretty much expected that the first few years of college were about experimenting and figuring out what you wanted to do, which suggests to me that there has been a solid cultural shift over the last ten or so years. A change for the worse, I think, and therefore kind of depressing. It's pretty much the an hesis of my at ude toward education and is completely opposite of everything I think is so fun and amazing about going to college.

Welcome to the post-2007 job market, CF. It sucks.

[mavs>spurs2]

Generally... everything.

Specifically... that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on career and earning that someone as young as you (I'm assuming standard college age?) would have already accepted a future of 30-40 years working a miserable job to pay the bills rather than pursuing something more interesting and fulfilling that may not be as secure. It's an at ude I see frequently within my younger fellow students.

And it's an at ude I see far more frequently now than I did when I was that age, when an undeclared major was common and it was pretty much expected that the first few years of college were about experimenting and figuring out what you wanted to do, which suggests to me that there has been a solid cultural shift over the last ten or so years. A change for the worse, I think, and therefore kind of depressing. It's pretty much the an hesis of my at ude toward education and is completely opposite of everything I think is so fun and amazing about going to college.

don't be an idiot, college is and never was about learning because it's your passion or something. college is a means to make a living for yourself, you go ahead and have your little art major that's cute and all, but in the end no one is going to pay your bills for you when you can't afford to feed yourself or maybe don't even have a job. i prefer to be successful and stand on my own 2 feet rather than struggle to pay the rent and worry about my job security with all the art majors.

[CuckingFunt]

don't be an idiot, college is and never was about learning because it's your passion or something. college is a means to make a living for yourself, you go ahead and have your little art major that's cute and all, but in the end no one is going to pay your bills for you when you can't afford to feed yourself or maybe don't even have a job. i prefer to be successful and stand on my own 2 feet rather than struggle to pay the rent and worry about my job security with all the art majors.

Sorry that I'd prefer a college environment in which people aren't putting forth the bare minimum effort and focusing more on degrees than education. Sorry that I'd prefer a work force that had a genuine interest in what they were doing with their lives and who were invested in doing what they enjoyed to the best of their ability, rather than a work force full of disgruntled mindless drones who do everything half-assed while they off on facebook all day. And extra special sorry if these preferences make me unreasonably optimistic, but I'm just not ready to concede that we've become a species of robots.

I worked in an office environment for ten years. I hated it, but I did it. It made me miserable, but it paid my bills. And if paying my bills ever becomes a problem in my future, I know that I can do it again. if I'm going to, at age 18, invest a lot of time and energy into school with the specific intention of enduring that misery for half my life, though.

[mavs>spurs2]

Sorry that I'd prefer a college environment in which people aren't putting forth the bare minimum effort and focusing more on degrees than education. Sorry that I'd prefer a work force that had a genuine interest in what they were doing with their lives and who were invested in doing what they enjoyed to the best of their ability, rather than a work force full of disgruntled mindless drones who do everything half-assed while they off on facebook all day. And extra special sorry if these preferences make me unreasonably optimistic, but I'm just not ready to concede that we've become a species of robots.

I worked in an office environment for ten years. I hated it, but I did it. It made me miserable, but it paid my bills. And if paying my bills ever becomes a problem in my future, I know that I can do it again. if I'm going to, at age 18, invest a lot of time and energy into school with the specific intention of enduring that misery for half my life, though.

that's why you find the proper balance, pick something that makes money but at the same time that you at least somewhat enjoy. degrees like journalism, communications, liberal arts, etc suck because you pay a fortune for a degree with no return on investment. you waste time and money and when you get out, have no way of getting a better job than the one you had or could have gotten from the start. see, i started off going to accounting similiar to dok because it made a lot of money. after taking a few accounting courses, i wisely switched over to information systems because i didn't want the headache it would have caused me to get my CPA and also the life that would have came with it. But in switching, I made sure to pick something that not only do i enjoy (computers) but i thought about it realistically and picked a field that is in high demand and pays good so that i will be set after all of my hard work when i finally graduate here in a couple of years. part of what you're saying is true, but if you don't at least factor the job market and salary into the equation then you're simply being short sighted and lazy, only wanting to do something fun and not put forth a serious effort.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Generally... everything.

Specifically... that we as a culture have put so much emphasis on career and earning that someone as young as you (I'm assuming standard college age?) would have already accepted a future of 30-40 years working a miserable job to pay the bills rather than pursuing something more interesting and fulfilling that may not be as secure. It's an at ude I see frequently within my younger fellow students.

And it's an at ude I see far more frequently now than I did when I was that age, when an undeclared major was common and it was pretty much expected that the first few years of college were about experimenting and figuring out what you wanted to do, which suggests to me that there has been a solid cultural shift over the last ten or so years. A change for the worse, I think, and therefore kind of depressing. It's pretty much the an hesis of my at ude toward education and is completely opposite of everything I think is so fun and amazing about going to college.

I agree to a point, but that's just reality now. I enjoy accounting somewhat, it's a job that's needed in a good or bad economy, it pays well out of college, and it's not overly stressful. Lets just say I was raised in a very fortunate up bringing and my parents gave me plenty of options, I'd feel bad if my kids didn't have the same options I did.

Now, I could go into how education de-emphasizing of stuff like art and science enrages me but that's a different topic.

[CuckingFunt]

that's why you find the proper balance, pick something that makes money but at the same time that you at least somewhat enjoy. degrees like journalism, communications, liberal arts, etc suck because you pay a fortune for a degree with no return on investment. you waste time and money and when you get out, have no way of getting a better job than the one you had or could have gotten from the start. see, i started off going to accounting similiar to dok because it made a lot of money. after taking a few accounting courses, i wisely switched over to information systems because i didn't want the headache it would have caused me to get my CPA and also the life that would have came with it. But in switching, I made sure to pick something that not only do i enjoy (computers) but i thought about it realistically and picked a field that is in high demand and pays good so that i will be set after all of my hard work when i finally graduate here in a couple of years. part of what you're saying is true, but if you don't at least factor the job market and salary into the equation then you're simply being short sighted and lazy, only wanting to do something fun and not put forth a serious effort.

With the exception of the short sighted and lazy comment, I don't entirely disagree with this or the philosophy behind it. Making a living should always be taken into consideration, whether that means choosing a major that both addresses your interests and provides job opportunities or it means recognizing that your interests aren't going to lead to job security and 401Ks. Which is okay, for the record, so long as you're realistic and prepare for that fact.

Surely you can see, however, that your above comments are vastly different from something along the lines of "think with your brain, not your heart" or "college is a means to make a living for yourself." When I say that education should be about finding and pursuing what motivates you, that's not the same as saying that everyone should be a flighty art student because it's super groovy. If someone is genuinely passionate about being an accountant, like my cousin's husband seems to be, then I say go forth and be awesome with it. Or if you've settled on an information systems degree because you love computers and find it a fulfilling area of interest, more power to you. Despite your initial comment about college not being about pursuing your passion, it seems as though that's what you've done in college, right? Your earlier major didn't interest you, so you moved on to something that does. That's great.

I see a lot of people at school who don't do that, though. They get to college with a major already in place and when they discover they don't like it, they stick with it anyway. Because it will make them money eventually. Or because it would take too much time to pursue something they'd like better. Or because they don't want to have wasted time by taking a bunch of high school AP classes designed to prepare them for a major they ended up hating. Whatever. That's where I think this mindset is unfortunate. Every semester I meet kids in their 20s who are already jaded, who are already fed up with their future career choice, but who are already so invested in their long term plan that their only reaction is to completely disengage and become more jaded and half-assed.

[Shastafarian]

He can minor in whatever he wants to be honest. I majored in Anthropology, took all the requisite Science courses, and could've minored in German if I wanted. I chose to take other electives though. But don't Major in Business. The disciplines are too far off from each other.

[mavs>spurs2]

I see a lot of people at school who don't do that, though. They get to college with a major already in place and when they discover they don't like it, they stick with it anyway. Because it will make them money eventually. Or because it would take too much time to pursue something they'd like better. Or because they don't want to have wasted time by taking a bunch of high school AP classes designed to prepare them for a major they ended up hating. Whatever. That's where I think this mindset is unfortunate. Every semester I meet kids in their 20s who are already jaded, who are already fed up with their future career choice, but who are already so invested in their long term plan that their only reaction is to completely disengage and become more jaded and half-assed.

Yeah, that line of thinking sucks because you're actually going to be MISERABLE doing that for the rest of your life if you already hate it while you're still in college. My line of thinking is more along the lines of, yes work is going to suck sometimes and isn't your ideal way to spend the day, and money matters, but try to pick something that you at least mildly enjoy and stands out as not quite as boring/tedious as the other things. of course while still earning at least a decent salary. i really feel bad for my friend who majored in journalism, and don't really know how to tell him he's making a mistake and it's a "loser" degree. I guess people will just have to find out the hard way.

[easjer]

I think that the idea that college is about earning potential is a bad shift (and it *is* a shift in perspective). I think it comes from the degradation of educational standards in high schools, I think.

There is nothing wrong with earning potential being a factor in choosing a major, but you are incorrect in saying that liberal arts degrees are worthless - as I said earlier, every person in my office, save the college/division administrator, have liberal arts degrees. From our own college, no less. And we're all doing pretty well.

There is something valuable to be gained by a degree - that is why ANY bachelor's degree qualifies you for a higher level of job, because everyone takes additional core classes and learns, in theory, valuable skills that are applicable to many things.

As an example - I'm extremely good at research and quickly dissecting articles because I did a lot of that as a history major. Additionally, I'm quite good at puzzling out lines of behavior and logic, because that is also a piece of history - understanding motivations and tracing the results of various actions. It make me good at creating processes and writing directions because I can picture the various potential outcomes of certain choices.

Also, I have a good grasp of language and grammar and can write a thesis. Which is still a pretty valuable skill and one which many of the 'practical' majors I've dealt with are lacking.

Perhaps it's because I worked for 5 years in Honors education, but honestly, I'm with CuckingFunt in finding it completely and thoroughly depressing that college is now seen as a race to complete a degree as quickly as possible with no understanding of the potential for exploration, learning and growth that college can be. Though frankly, I fear that the meaning behind bachelor's degrees is being lost and diluted with the number of people going to college these days and the variety of ways in which to achieve a degree.

[ploto]

I continue to be an idealist. I went to college for an education not for vocational training. I studied 2 pure subject fields- not applied fields- and have never regretted it. My liberal arts core curriculum actually hleped me get my first professional job. I then obtained a Master's degree, and yes, it is helpful to have an advanced degree if you are going to go that route. Maybe it is because I also work at an educational and research ins ution, but the other people in my department have degrees in fields like English and psychology. I don't make a lot but I make enough and like my job. My child is the same way. He is getting ready for college soon, and he wants to study a pure field and go onto graduate school. He does have friends, though, who have said -- I really want to be a ___ but instead I am going to be an accountant for 20 years, make and save money, and then do what I want.

[The Reckoning]

Maybe it is because I also work at an educational and research ins ution, but the other people in my department have degrees in fields like English and psychology.

that's why when you go liberal arts people always ask you "oh, are you planning to teach?"

[Mavs_man_41]

that's why when you go liberal arts people always ask you "oh, are you planning to teach?"

[ploto]

that's why when you go liberal arts people always ask you "oh, are you planning to teach?"

I don't teach.

My university required a liberal arts core curriculum so I have a BA, but it is in mathematics. I took all the theoretical courses, not the applied ones. I also sat for the first actuary exam to challenge myself and scored a 10 on it, but I did not want to work in the insurance field. I make far less than I would have being an actuary but I enjoy what I do and I like that I contribute to other people's learning.

[RandomGuy]

Just statistically speaking, any student has a better chance to get into med school.

Actually, statistically speaking, that depends on the proportion of applicants to each school, and not the raw number of schools.

10,000 applicants for 1000 spots in two schools. Odds of getting in 1 in 10.
100,000 applicants for 2000 spots in four schools. Odds of getting in 1 in 50.

QED.

[RandomGuy]

I don't teach.

My university required a liberal arts core curriculum so I have a BA, but it is in mathematics. I took all the theoretical courses, not the applied ones. I also sat for the first actuary exam to challenge myself and scored a 10 on it, but I did not want to work in the insurance field. I make far less than I would have being an actuary but I enjoy what I do and I like that I contribute to other people's learning.

Actuaries have, according to a recent job satisfaction survey, the highest satisfaction rate with their jobs in the US.

They also have some pretty solid job security, mostly because their field is so specialized and hard to get into.

[RandomGuy]

I continue to be an idealist. I went to college for an education not for vocational training. I studied 2 pure subject fields- not applied fields- and have never regretted it. My liberal arts core curriculum actually hleped me get my first professional job. I then obtained a Master's degree, and yes, it is helpful to have an advanced degree if you are going to go that route. Maybe it is because I also work at an educational and research ins ution, but the other people in my department have degrees in fields like English and psychology. I don't make a lot but I make enough and like my job. My child is the same way. He is getting ready for college soon, and he wants to study a pure field and go onto graduate school. He does have friends, though, who have said -- I really want to be a ___ but instead I am going to be an accountant for 20 years, make and save money, and then do what I want.

That is a fair summary of the value of a BA these days. You go to grad school to get a good job, but take a BA in something that interests you.

BTW, I love being an accountant. A lot of people think they can be an accountant for 20 years "just to earn money" but if you don't really like your job that much, most tend to opt out after 5-10 years. As with anything, you have to relatively like what you do in order to hang with it.