Roddy Beaubois vs. Geoge Hill

[jag]

The only one you are blowing is Hill, giving him props for basically doing nothing but taking wide open shots. Big ing deal.

Yes, i've been blowing hill up and down this thread. You got it, bro. I gave him props for having good composure, which is something he's shown and i've always noticed about him.

At least try and act like you've seen Hill for more than just this postseason.

All I've said is that Dragic and Roddy are >>>>>>> Hill when it comes to skill and potential. I've never said Hill sucks. He's just a very middle of the pack player. Doesnt suck at anything, but doesnt accel at anything either, and will probably never really be an All-Star type player. Goran and Roddy both have all-star and even All-NBA team potential.

They have skill and potential in different areas, so it's hard to say that one >>>>>> others. I'm not exactly sure how you've managed to quantify their respective potential, but i'd be interested to find out. I can see where you'd say that hill is a middle of the pack kind of guy, because a lot of the time he looks that way. He's inconsistent, something all of the three are right now. But i think you're forgetting that when parker went out win an injury early in 08-09...Hill (as a rookie) averaged 20+ points and 5 assists. The guy can score, but it's hard for him to do anything more than be a "middle of the pack" role player with Duncan, Jefferson, Parker and Ginobili on the floor. He has a specific role that requires him to play defense and hit open threes...and that's what he's doing.

[mikeschy55]

Sons all I know is that a decent player does not lose minutes to JJ barea.

roddy is a scrub.

Rick Carlisle did the same thing with Tayshaun Prince his rookie season. He just doesn't play rookies. I'm going to laugh when Roddy dominates Hill as he TRIES to guard him next year.

[mikeschy55]

double post

[stretch]

Can't agree with you on this one, Roddy's shown great defensive ability this year. You have to understand that this dude is a freak of nature. Do you know any other 6'2" player whose signature play is an alley-oop? He's got a 6-10 wingspan (that's right, 6-10) with a 40 inch vert (probably higher, as he was injured when he tested). Roddy's going to be a great defender. However, I don't ever see him being a great passer. I think he can be a 20ppg player.

Roddy's issue is hes not very good at getting through picks. He gets KILLED by picks. He needs to get better at that, and get a little stronger. He got lost in rotations a few times, but that will come with experience.

[Ditty]

Rick Carlisle did the same thing with Tayshaun Prince his rookie season. He just doesn't play rookies. I'm going to laugh when Roddy dominates Hill as he TRIES to guard him next year.

as the spurs be pounding that ass again when dirk is in new york

[jag]

Can't agree with you on this one, Roddy's shown great defensive ability this year. You have to understand that this dude is a freak of nature. Do you know any other 6'2" player whose signature play is an alley-oop? He's got a 6-10 wingspan (that's right, 6-10) with a 40 inch vert (probably higher, as he was injured when he tested). Roddy's going to be a great defender. However, I don't ever see him being a great passer. I think he can be a 20ppg player.

Roddy and Hill have almost the same wingspan, there's less than an inch difference, but i don't think Roddy has the body strength to defend larger guys. Hill has already shown he can guard players as tall as Durant and as strong as Billups. Dragic has shown he can stay with guys as quick as Parker and as tall as kobe. I haven't really seen roddy tested yet, so it's hard to say. The thing that worries me about Hill on defense is his lateral quickness. Both Dragic and Roddy move their feet better/quicker on defense.

[mikeschy55]

Yes, i've been blowing hill up and down this thread. You got it, bro. I gave him props for having good composure, which is something he's shown and i've always noticed about him.

At least try and act like you've seen Hill for more than just this postseason.



They have skill and potential in different areas, so it's hard to say that one >>>>>> others. I'm not exactly sure how you've managed to quantify their respective potential, but i'd be interested to find out. I can see where you'd say that hill is a middle of the pack kind of guy, because a lot of the time he looks that way. He's inconsistent, something all of the three are right now. But i think you're forgetting that when parker went out win an injury early in 08-09...Hill (as a rookie) averaged 20+ points and 5 assists. The guy can score, but it's hard for him to do anything more than be a "middle of the pack" role player with Duncan, Jefferson, Parker and Ginobili on the floor. He has a specific role that requires him to play defense and hit open threes...and that's what he's doing.

The thing is, Roddy wasn't inconcistent this season. He just rarely got to play and almost EVERY time he got in he did very well. That's why there were free Roddy B campaigns across the Dallas metroplex, that's why he was the only person talked about on the mavericks team during the season, that's why players ahead of him on the rotation spoke out to the media saying that he needed to play (which rarely happens in the NBA). When Roddy stepped in for JET this year when was injured, he averaged over 17 pts in little over 20 mpg.

Roddy is far superior athlete to Hill, there's no way he'll be able to guard him next year (not that he did this year either).

[stretch]

Yes, i've been blowing hill up and down this thread. You got it, bro. I gave him props for having good composure, which is something he's shown and i've always noticed about him.

At least try and act like you've seen Hill for more than just this postseason.



They have skill and potential in different areas, so it's hard to say that one >>>>>> others. I'm not exactly sure how you've managed to quantify their respective potential, but i'd be interested to find out. I can see where you'd say that hill is a middle of the pack kind of guy, because a lot of the time he looks that way. He's inconsistent, something all of the three are right now. But i think you're forgetting that when parker went out win an injury early in 08-09...Hill (as a rookie) averaged 20+ points and 5 assists. The guy can score, but it's hard for him to do anything more than be a "middle of the pack" role player with Duncan, Jefferson, Parker and Ginobili on the floor. He has a specific role that requires him to play defense and hit open threes...and that's what he's doing.

The guy can score because he has Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili opening up things for him. When the guy faces teams best defenders, he sucks ass. Can you imagine if Ginobili and Parker werent around, drawing the opposing teams best defenders? Let's see how well he does against guys like Artest.

Yeah, he had a nice scoring stretch as a rookie, although your 5 assist average was quite off. In fact, he didn't get 5 assists in any of those games.
Brandon Jennings had a 55 point game as a rookie, but hes still among the most inefficent scorers in the NBA. ONE stretch doesnt mean much.

He's a decent player that plays in a GREAT system alongside GREAT players, and gets his scoring based off of their presence. He basically is what Roger Mason Jr. was last year. Had a nice year, even though hes a very average player, because his best skills were used as much as possible in a great system. But there is pretty much not one real area in which Hill stands out as being unquestionably more offensively skilled than Roddy. Not one. Shooting, passing, ball handling, penetration, footwork, court vision... you name it, Roddy has shown to be better.

[mikeschy55]

Roddy and Hill have almost the same wingspan, there's less than an inch difference, but i don't think Roddy has the body strength to defend larger guys. Hill has already shown he can guard players as tall as Durant and as strong as Billups. Dragic has shown he can stay with guys as quick as Parker and as tall as kobe. I haven't really seen roddy tested yet, so it's hard to say. The thing that worries me about Hill on defense is his lateral quickness. Both Dragic and Roddy move their feet better/quicker on defense.

Regarding wingspan and athleticism, allow me to put it this way. There was ONE person in the draft that touched higher on the backboard (a test in the NBA pre-draft combines). That was Blake Griffin by a half inch. (doesn't include centers)

[mikeschy55]

as the spurs be pounding that ass again when dirk is in new york

actually Dirk's renegotiating his contract so the Mavs can pursue another star this season (taking less money for more years). Nice try

Not sure why the national media only reports half the story, he's opting out to HELP the Mavs.

[Ditty]

I never seen a player average 22.3 ppg working off other players

Hill>>>>>>>>>>>Roddy

[Ditty]

actually Dirk's renegotiating his contract so the Mavs can pursue another star this season (taking less money for more years). Nice try

Not sure why the national media only reports half the story, he's opting out to HELP the Mavs.

is that speculation or comfirmed?

[stretch]

I never seen a player average 22.3 ppg working off other players

Hill>>>>>>>>>>>Roddy

over a 3 game stretch? good one, moron.

[Ditty]

over a 3 game stretch? good one, moron.

well he then sure put his up the mavs asses during those 3 games to average that amount in 6 games

[mikeschy55]

is that speculation or comfirmed?

it's pretty much confirmed, that's what Dirk told Cuban over a weekend getaway (yes a weekend getaway, that's the relationship they have) and Cuban reported it. The only reason it's not entirely confirmed is because it hasn't happened yet. There's virtually no chance Dirk is leaving the Mavericks.

[jag]

The thing is, Roddy wasn't inconcistent this season. He just rarely got to play and almost EVERY time he got in he did very well. That's why there were free Roddy B campaigns across the Dallas metroplex, that's why he was the only person talked about on the mavericks team during the season, that's why players ahead of him on the rotation spoke out to the media saying that he needed to play (which rarely happens in the NBA). When Roddy stepped in for JET this year when was injured, he averaged over 17 pts in little over 20 mpg.

Roddy is far superior athlete to Hill, there's no way he'll be able to guard him next year (not that he did this year either).

Point totals for the games Roddy started last season:

9
9
14
12
8
4
8
6
6
0
2
6
9
24
11
11

Inbetween those starts he had games with 40, 24, 17pts...etc. He's inconsistent. I already stated that he's a better scorer than both Dragic and Hill, but that doesn't mean he's consistent. He's a rookie...that's how rookies are.

Last season stats (per 36 min - per game stats are useless with Roddy some games he only got like 2 min):

Pts FG% 3P% Ast
Roddy - 20.4 .518 .409 3.8
Hill- 15.2 .478 .399 3.6
Dragic- 15.9 .452 .394 6.0

I have a difficult time saying any one of them is far and away better than either of the other two.

[mikeschy55]

well he then sure put his up the mavs asses during those 3 games to average that amount in 6 games

You won't be laughing when Roddy completely owns Hill off the ball next year. Hill doesn't have anywhere near the athleticism required to guard him. It's going to be fun to watch.

[Ditty]

it's pretty much confirmed, that's what Dirk told Cuban over a weekend getaway (yes a weekend getaway, that's the relationship they have) and Cuban reported it. The only reason it's not entirely confirmed is because it hasn't happened yet. There's virtually no chance Dirk is leaving the Mavericks.

link?

[Ditty]

You won't be laughing when Roddy completely owns Hill off the ball next year. Hill doesn't have anywhere near the athleticism required to guard him. It's going to be fun to watch.

when i see it ill believe it but I know it wont happen and he's done nothing to impress me to throw up a bunch of shots and they went in...didn't steve kerr do the same thing in 2003

[mikeschy55]

Point totals for the games Roddy started last season:

9
9
14
12
8
4
8
6
6
0
2
6
9
24
11
11

Inbetween those starts he had games with 40, 24, 17pts...etc. He's inconsistent. I already stated that he's a better scorer than both Dragic and Hill, but that doesn't mean he's consistent. He's a rookie...that's how rookies are.

Last season stats (per 36 min - per game stats are useless with Roddy some games he only got like 2 min):

Pts FG% 3P% Ast
Roddy - 20.4 .518 .409 3.8
Hill- 15.2 .478 .399 3.6
Dragic- 15.9 .452 .394 6.0

I have a difficult time saying any one of them is far and away better than either of the other two.

Check his mpg in each of his starts, he was never given starter minutes. He was given back up minutes or he was pulled and didn't play again. The 5 game stretch in which Terry was out gives you a good idea of what he does when you give around 20 mpg (about 17 pts). Also, look at opportunities (shots taken) and shooting %. Roddy set a rookie record this year in shooing % with 50/40/80 (NO rookie has ever done it).

All I have left to say is that there a number of spurs fans on this thread that has already admitted that Roddy is miles ahead of Hill. IMO it's obvious. Roddy has a much higher ceiling than Hill.

[jag]

The guy can score because he has Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili opening up things for him. When the guy faces teams best defenders, he sucks ass. Can you imagine if Ginobili and Parker werent around, drawing the opposing teams best defenders? Let's see how well he does against guys like Artest.

Yeah, he had a nice scoring stretch as a rookie, although your 5 assist average was quite off. In fact, he didn't get 5 assists in any of those games.
Brandon Jennings had a 55 point game as a rookie, but hes still among the most inefficent scorers in the NBA. ONE stretch doesnt mean much.

2008-11-14 - as a starter - 5 assists
2008-11-17 - as a starter - 8 assists

He's a decent player that plays in a GREAT system alongside GREAT players, and gets his scoring based off of their presence. He basically is what Roger Mason Jr. was last year. Had a nice year, even though hes a very average player, because his best skills were used as much as possible in a great system. But there is pretty much not one real area in which Hill stands out as being unquestionably more offensively skilled than Roddy. Not one. Shooting, passing, ball handling, penetration, footwork, court vision... you name it, Roddy has shown to be better.

In my first post in this thread i said that Roddy was a better scorer than both dragic and Hill. I'm not sure who you're arguing with about this.

And let me get this straight, Hill is only a "decent" player because he plays alongside great players in a great system, correct? But Roddy playing alongside Dirk, Kidd, Terry, formerly josh howard, and now Caron Butler excels by creating on his own and by facing the best defender the opposing team has to offer??

[Mavs_man_41]

Point totals for the games Roddy started last season:

9
9
14
12
8
4
8
6
6
0
2
6
9
24
11
11

Inbetween those starts he had games with 40, 24, 17pts...etc. He's inconsistent. I already stated that he's a better scorer than both Dragic and Hill, but that doesn't mean he's consistent. He's a rookie...that's how rookies are.

Last season stats (per 36 min - per game stats are useless with Roddy some games he only got like 2 min):

Pts FG% 3P% Ast
Roddy - 20.4 .518 .409 3.8
Hill- 15.2 .478 .399 3.6
Dragic- 15.9 .452 .394 6.0

I have a difficult time saying any one of them is far and away better than either of the other two.

Man, it was very common for Roddy to start a game, play half the first quarter, and then get benched for the rest of the game. alot of those 6, 8, and 9 point games were in only 5 or 6 minutes of play. Just because he started still didn't mean that he got to play, unfortunately.

[mikeschy55]

when i see it ill believe it but I know it wont happen and he's done nothing to impress me to throw up a bunch of shots and they went in...didn't steve kerr do the same thing in 2003

Clearly you haven't see him play. Did you even watch the video I posted that started the thread? Just go to youtube for 30 seconds and check him out. Just 2 of his points against the Spurs in game 6 came from jumpers, the rest came from penetration and finishing at the rim. Roddy is a monster athlete, Kerr is a pure jump shooter... no comparison whatsoever.

[mikeschy55]

Man, it was very common for Roddy to start a game, play half the first quarter, and then get benched for the rest of the game. alot of those 6, 8, and 9 point games were in only 5 or 6 minutes of play. Just because he started still didn't mean that he got to play, unfortunately.

but that doesn't mean spurs fans won't try to twist the facts in whichever way they can

[Ditty]

Clearly you haven't see him play. Did you even watch the video I posted that started the thread? Just go to youtube for 30 seconds and check him out. Just 2 of his points against the Spurs in game 6 came from jumpers, the rest came from penetration and finishing at the rim. Roddy is a monster athlete, Kerr is a pure jump shooter... no comparison whatsoever.

im not comparing just saying its one lucky game that the mavs loss