Turkey has announced they will send another flotilla to Gaza escorted by Turk Navy

[ElNono]

I was just pointing out how over simplistic and inaccurate his analogy was.

I didn't think it was simplistic or inaccurate at all.
Another similar analogy would be wether you could attack the alleged robber before he breaks into the house, because he said he would break in.

[Shastafarian]

I didn't think it was simplistic or inaccurate at all.

Intentions of breaking a blockade don't factor in at all huh? How about their obvious intention to harm the soldiers? Are you kidding me? You think his analogy of Israel as a burglar and the activists as innocent home owners is good? Here I thought you were smart.

Another similar analogy would be wether you could attack the alleged robber before he breaks into the house, because he said he would break in.

The whole premise is inaccurate as the Israeli soldiers weren't there to steal the goods for themselves. Their position is that they were going to inspect the materials and send anything that wasn't banned to Gaza.

The "peaceful" activists were planning on breaking Israeli law but that doesn't enter anywhere into your analogy.

[ElNono]

But they would have had they waited for it to come into their waters.

Well, it's not certain. However, they would not have broken any international laws, so they wouldn't need to explain to the rest of the world why they did what they did.

I think the first part of your post shows you came in with a preconceived notion of my position. I'm not arguing the FBI would have the right to come in. I thought I made it clear but you still thought I was advocating the legality or acceptability of them breaking the law.

Please don't take this personally, but I've yet to figure out what your position really is. I personally prefer to respect the law. I also understand that there are other people that prefer to make exceptions to enforcing the laws in order for the end to justify the means. I might not agree with them, but I understand that's the rationale they use.
Yet, I don't see you clearly in either camp. I'm not suggesting that there are only two lines of thought, I just can't identify what yours is.

[Shastafarian]

If they ship had been carrying missiles, would you maintain your position?

[Shastafarian]

Well, it's not certain. However, they would not have broken any international laws, so they wouldn't need to explain to the rest of the world why they did what they did.

This is the frustrating part. I'm not concerned with them having to explain themselves for breaking international law. Should they have waited? Absolutely. But it's a separate issue from what the contents of the boat were as well as what their motives were.

Please don't take this personally, but I've yet to figure out what your position really is. I personally prefer to respect the law. I also understand that there are other people that prefer to make exceptions to enforcing the laws in order for the end to justify the means. I might not agree with them, but I understand that's the rationale they use.
Yet, I don't see you clearly in either camp. I'm not suggesting that there are only two lines of thought, I just can't identify what yours is.

My position is the Israelis should have waited. The activists were either doing it as a publicity stunt or were looking for trouble (probably both). They found it and now they're ing because the Israelis defended themselves against being BEATEN with metal objects. Did Israel break international law? It looks that way but I'm no expert.

What would you say if they had waited? You'd be ok with it right? That's what I'm getting at.

[ElNono]

Intentions of breaking a blockade don't factor in at all huh? How about their obvious intention to harm the soldiers? Are you kidding me? You think his analogy of Israel as a burglar and the activists as innocent home owners is good? Here I thought you were smart.

Intent is not a crime defined in international law. Do Israel likes that the Iranian head of state denies the holocaust and denies the right of Israel to their land? No. Do Israel HAS A RIGHT to kill him outside of Israel? No.
Does Israel has a right to kill all the civilian protesters that don't like or agree with the Gaza blockade outside of Israel? No.
This is pretty clear cut. If everybody would be allows to legally kill people for what they think, then we would be officially in a 1984 world.

The whole premise is inaccurate as the Israeli soldiers weren't there to steal the goods for themselves. Their position is that they were going to inspect the materials and send anything that wasn't banned to Gaza.
The "peaceful" activists were planning on breaking Israeli law but that doesn't enter anywhere into your analogy.

But they didn't break Israel or International law. Israel foolishly did. Baffles me that they did, especially with the tensions they had with Turkey and the US in their diplomatic relations, but they did.
The protesters ultimately won, simply because they managed to get Israel to do the worst it could do. I'm not naive enough to think that they weren't looking for a reaction. But ultimately is Israel that screwed up.

[ElNono]

If they ship had been carrying missiles, would you maintain your position?

If the ship would have been carrying missiles, then it would have been in violation of International laws, since it identified itself as a civilian ship.
That said, the way this is resolved is by Israel sending a boat and requesting an inspection of the ship while in international waters. That's the procedure indicated in the UN laws of the high seas.

Ultimately, the ship identified itself as a civilian ship, and was indeed full of civilians. Angry civilians? Maybe. Pro-Palestinian civilians? Probably. That still doesn't give you an excuse to board the ship in international waters.

[sook]

Israel is slowly but surely solidifying its demise. Throughout the course of history stupid piece of nations like responsible for all the world's tensions are quick to disappear, sadly however, my tax dollar is what is fueling the monster.

[spursncowboys]

Did Israel try and get confirmation to board and search before doing this? Did the vessel not respond to Israel?

[ElNono]

This is the frustrating part. I'm not concerned with them having to explain themselves for breaking international law. Should they have waited? Absolutely. But it's a separate issue from what the contents of the boat were as well as what their motives were.

What you say and what you do are two different things. Saying I'm going to steal your car means jack if I don't actually attempt to do it. (I mean, if you want to get picky we could argue wether you're under emotional distress because of my threat, but as far as the actual intent of stealing your car, it just doesn't fly unless I actually attempt to do it).

All Israel had to do was for this group to break ANY law. Be it international if they were in international waters, or Israeli if they were in Israel's territorial waters. But they couldn't help themselves. Foolish.

My position is the Israelis should have waited. The activists were either doing it as a publicity stunt or were looking for trouble (probably both). They found it and now they're ing because the Israelis defended themselves against being BEATEN with metal objects. Did Israel break international law? It looks that way but I'm no expert.

What would you say if they had waited? You'd be ok with it right? That's what I'm getting at.

I think they would at least have had a plausible justification for doing what they did. As soon as you can clearly and quickly establish that the convoy broke the law first, then it's a lot easier to justify the fallout from that.
Instead, they took the bait and swallowed it whole.

[ElNono]

Did Israel try and get confirmation to board and search before doing this? Did the vessel not respond to Israel?

They did not (ask to board), AFAIK. They did warn the boats to either go to an Israeli port or to turn around. The ships did respond and said they were going to keep going towards their final destination.

[ChumpDumper]

Their position is that they were going to inspect the materials and send anything that wasn't banned to Gaza.

Why did they need to storm the boat with commandos just to inspect it?

[Ghazi]

Is anyone else surprised that Turkey has a Navy?

They are one of the better military in the Middle East... maybe 2nd to Iran. Israel is 3rd.

[ElNono]

Is anyone else surprised that Turkey has a Navy?

They're like top 10 in the world...

[Ghazi]

it's kind of hard to fear the military might of a country named after lunch meat

[angrydude]

we got a lot of maritime lawyers on this board.

this is what it is--an international incident.

[Ignignokt]

Why did they need to storm the boat with commandos just to inspect it?

you should have gone and inspected it yourself, if it's that safe.

[ChumpDumper]

you should have gone and inspected it yourself, if it's that safe.

You should tell us all why it took a commando raid in the first place.

The USCG boards and inspects ships all the time without the use of SEAL raids.

[sook]

So the activists have a right to defend themselves but the soldiers don't. Glad we cleared that up.

who boarded whose ship you piece of nutsack?

Good good, just build a shrine in front of your house and claim israel your god and be done with it.

[sook]

You should tell us all why it took a commando raid in the first place.

The USCG boards and inspects ships all the time without the use of SEAL raids.

not only tyhat why do "Accidental attacks" to humanitarians and the U.N only come from Israel?

How many times have I seen this bull response?

Why do they have the right to kill so many?

It is wrong on so many levels.

[PublicOption]

Israel is stupid for ing with Turkey. They may get their ass kicked.

[spursncowboys]

They are one of the better military in the Middle East... maybe 2nd to Iran. Israel is 3rd.

1. israel 2. turkey. both these countries get america's left overs. all the other countries get soviet age weaponry. there is no way they can compete.

[spursncowboys]

Israel is stupid for ing with Turkey. They may get their ass kicked.

I look at it as turkey is dumb for getting involved without clearing it with israel. what would lincoln have done if france, in the civil war, was going through america's blockades with "aide" without clearing it with the union.

[Drachen]

it's kind of hard to fear the military might of a country named after lunch meat

It is also hard to fear the military might of a country named after retreating (Iran).

LOL

[MannyIsGod]

Slowly but surely, the world turns on this cancerous regime.

Most of the world HAS been against them for quite some time. They just happen to have one of a lobby here in the United States.