David Stern: "Kobe is there with Michael"

[cobbler]

Kareem's totals are due to games played and years in the NBA as well. Are you saying longevity is not greatness?

I always laugh when people start throwing out MJ's numbers or Wilt's numbers or whoever's.. watching (not just highlights) them play and comparing them is different to comparing numbers (e.g. Kobe's shooting %, PPG average vs. Jordan's). Fact is, the times are different, the games different, players have evolved (both physically and skillwise), rules have changed..

If Jordan had played with Shaq or in the zone era, would he have averaged as many points as he did earlier in his career? If Kobe had played by himself, in Jordan's illegal defense era, or 80s fastbreak era, could he have scored as many points as Jordan and be just as efficient (50% shooting)? It is possible... the Suns' play definitely resemble that of the 80s, except they played better defence and were allowed to zone. Look at Bryant's numbers versus them (50+% 33-8-7) in the WCF or even the last 5 years since Mike D'Antoni took over.

If Bryant had to start from the bottom like MJ did, maybe his numbers would've been as great if not greater (see 2003 Shaq injured, 2005 Bryant 29-7-7 before injury, 2006 35ppg, 2007 31ppg). Forget about all the "but the 90s and 80s had tougher defense, you could handcheck bla bla" business. If you weren't around then to witness the eras, then watch proper game tapes of matches in the 80s or 90s.. you're not telling me they played better defence than the current era? If you are, then you're delusional.

Players have evolved, they're stronger, faster, longer and defences have improved a lot as well - lanes are no longer wide open like they use to be because of the zone. Magic and co use to drive to the hoop with ease and with single coverage, helping on defence means you'd leave a player open longer than say you would in a zone.

Would Bryant have won 6 les in 13 years following in MJ's path? Maybe not. But he is on his own path. People should just enjoy the game and learn to appreciate the greatness that is Kobe Bryant (or the other great player of this era, Duncan), appreciate them while they're still playing.. because it won't be long before both he and Duncan is gone.

In other words... STFU Miami/Chris/Harlem.

[Nahtanoj]

In other words... STFU Miami/Chris/Harlem.

lol telling him to stfu won't help him understand that he needs to 1) grow up, 2) be a true basketball fan and 3) stop being an angry person that critisize nba players because he cannot do what they do... on the interweb

[TheManFromAcme]

"Kobe is the closet thing you have to MJ right now". I don't see how that could be a controversial comment in any sense of the word. Who else do you have?

Let see:

1. Wade? - Nope
2. Bron? - Nope
3. Durant? - Nope

Throw all your stats, rosters, stacked or non-stacked teams for these guys and I'am sure some will surpass Kobe's but right now, as we speak, and as this season goes along, there is no better closer, no better heart-taker, no better person equipped for the last shot than Kobe Bryant.

Yeah, Kobe's fallen short with the MVP's, the DPOY's and so on, yet win or lose, he's approaching his 3rd finals. 3rd.

How bout we discuss who is the closet to MJ right now instead of Kobe being equal to MJ. I know Kobe isn't, but you've got nobody else.

Miami insists that he is on his downside. I don't think so. If you know anything about Kobe, the man is anal about off-season conditioning. Who cares if he loses a minute step? Who cares if his hops are off a bit? He's going to adjust his game. His physical game may be reduced but that unmeasurable intangible "willing" that he has to win is not going anywhere anytime soon. Your body may get older but your heart doesn't.

Kobe ain't MJ, I'll agree. But Kobe is the one on the ladder trying to reach MJ looking down at Bron and Wade.

[Nahtanoj]

I'm sure Bryant is only concerned with the le #5 ladder at the moment.

[TheManFromAcme]

I'm sure Bryant is only concerned with the le #5 ladder at the moment.

[lefty]

Stern has always been an idiot

[lefty]

"Kobe is the closet thing you have to MJ right now". I don't see how that could be a controversial comment in any sense of the word. Who else do you have?

Let see:

1. Wade? - Nope
2. Bron? - Nope
3. Durant? - Nope

Throw all your stats, rosters, stacked or non-stacked teams for these guys and I'am sure some will surpass Kobe's but right now, as we speak, and as this season goes along, there is no better closer, no better heart-taker, no better person equipped for the last shot than Kobe Bryant.

Yeah, Kobe's fallen short with the MVP's, the DPOY's and so on, yet win or lose, he's approaching his 3rd finals. 3rd.

How bout we discuss who is the closet to MJ right now instead of Kobe being equal to MJ. I know Kobe isn't, but you've got nobody else.

Miami insists that he is on his downside. I don't think so. If you know anything about Kobe, the man is anal about off-season conditioning. Who cares if he loses a minute step? Who cares if his hops are off a bit? He's going to adjust his game. His physical game may be reduced but that unmeasurable intangible "willing" that he has to win is not going anywhere anytime soon. Your body may get older but your heart doesn't.

Kobe ain't MJ, I'll agree. But Kobe is the one on the ladder trying to reach MJ looking down at Bron and Wade.

Wade has won a le with old and washed up Shaq, ing Antoine Walker and Jason Williams

He didnt have Collusion Gasol, or Lamar Odom, or Fish to bail him out

GTFO noob

[D2Procon]

Kobe will need to win 7 rings to be honestly considered as better or as having a better career than Jordan.

Bull , you'd have to look at other factors too such as MVPS awards etc. Bill Russell says hi.

[Nahtanoj]

Wade has won a le with old and washed up Shaq, ing Antoine Walker and Jason Williams

He didnt have Collusion Gasol, or Lamar Odom, or Fish to bail him out

GTFO noob

Haha if there ever was an asterick championship season, that was it. The Spurs' 1999 le, whether it was done in a lockout or not, was won fair and square.

[Kamnik]

Heard it on the podcast when asked to rank Kobe. What a in comparing players on a fixed scripted league.

You are re ed if you follow a scripted league and even post on forums about it.

/thread

[D2Procon]

You are re ed if you follow a scripted league and even post on forums about it.

/thread

I watch it the same reason people watch WWE, its called entertainment re .

[Gutter92]

Kobe has more playoff games played than MJ, yet has about thirty less playoff games with 30+ points

Kobe has more nba games played than MJ as a chicago bull, yet still has a lot to go to catch MJ's scoring total

kobe never won a DPOY,

not to mention a DPOY and league MVP and scoring le in the same ing season. (and also the All-Star game MVP) in 1987-88 season

for all this garbage about kobe being a better scorer, kobe never scored 3000 points in a season, MJ did.

kobe never shot %50 in a single season, MJ shot %50 FOR HIS CAREER AVERAGE!!!!!!!!!! as a chicago bull.

mj 10 scoring les, nba record.

mj's averages go up in playoffs, kobe's all go down.

seriously, its not even ing close.

holy educate these fools

[lefty]

Kobe has more playoff games played than MJ, yet has about thirty less playoff games with 30+ points

Kobe has more nba games played than MJ as a chicago bull, yet still has a lot to go to catch MJ's scoring total

kobe never won a DPOY,

not to mention a DPOY and league MVP and scoring le in the same ing season. (and also the All-Star game MVP) in 1987-88 season

for all this garbage about kobe being a better scorer, kobe never scored 3000 points in a season, MJ did.

kobe never shot %50 in a single season, MJ shot %50 FOR HIS CAREER AVERAGE!!!!!!!!!! as a chicago bull.

mj 10 scoring les, nba record.

mj's averages go up in playoffs, kobe's all go down.

seriously, its not even ing close.

Damn, Miamiheat is pissed

[ambchang]

In terms of what?

Marketability - no where close to Jordan, and I think anybody would agree that even LeBron trumps Kobe on that. Jordan pushed the league into a multi-billion dollar industry, Kobe allowed the league to stay status, along with Shaq, Duncan, KG, and a bunch of international players.

Leading teams to the le - Kobe did it once, with Shaq leading the Lakers in the other 3. Kobe had a monumental collapse in two playoff series (Game 7 vs. Suns and Game 6 vs. Celtics). Jordan led his team to 6 les as the undisputed alpha dog. In fact, Jordan became the only player in the history of the league to lead a team to multiple championships without the support of a dominant big man. The only other player to even lead a team to the promised land without an all-star level big was Isiah Thomas, but then his team was loaded with talent.

In terms of finishing - Kobe scored less in an era of lower scoring compared to Jordan. He also shot a lower percentage in an era of lower shooting percentages. So they pretty much even each other out, right? Only when you forget that the league has changed the rules since 1999 to cater to perimeter players to make the game more "entertaining". Kobe is probably the best at finishing a contested jump shot in the history of the league, and he did it through body control and athletic ability. Even Jordan wasn't as good, but then Jordan used his skills and athletic ability to create uncontested shots for himself.

Jordan was a better finisher around the basket than Kobe ever was (well, Jordan was the best), and his outside shot became progressively better as the league moved towards more 3 pt shooting (his 3P% is comparable, or even better, than Kobe's, when adjusted for league %).

In terms of defense - Jordan was DPoY, all D 1st team 9 times in 14 years (including his ill-advised comeback with the Wiz), Kobe was all D 1st team 8 times and 2nd team twice in 14 years, with no DPoY.

In terms of awards - Jordan was MVP 5 times, Finals MVP 6 times. Kobe has one of each.

The two doesn't even compare.

[TheManFromAcme]

Wade has won a le with old and washed up Shaq, ing Antoine Walker and Jason Williams

He didnt have Collusion Gasol, or Lamar Odom, or Fish to bail him out

GTFO noob

Get a clue lefty.

You still can't argue that nobody is closer to MJ than Kobe. If Kobe is a million miles away from the GOAT that is MJ, where does that leave Bron and wade?

[TDMVPDPOY]

kobe is nowhere near mj, tell the clown go play baseball or away from the sport for 2 years and come back win 3 straight les

[Why So Serious]

kobe is nowhere near mj, tell the clown go play baseball or away from the sport for 2 years and come back win 3 straight les

He came back and lost to the magic in the 2nd round before he repeated

[Nahtanoj]

He came back and lost to the magic in the 2nd round before he repeated

They forget Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman exist sometimes.

[lefty]

Get a clue lefty.

You still can't argue that nobody is closer to MJ than Kobe. If Kobe is a million miles away from the GOAT that is MJ, where does that leave Bron and wade?

Kobe would have never won with washed up Shaq and ing Antoine Walker

So Wade > Kobe

So Wade is closer to MJ

[TheManFromAcme]

Kobe would have never won with washed up Shaq and ing Antoine Walker

So Wade > Kobe

So Wade is closer to MJ

Mr. James Naismith is rolling in his grave

you peasant you

[TheMACHINE]

Stern is a smart man.

[TDMVPDPOY]

mj never tasted a mans ass, kobe has him beat there

[21_Blessings]

He tasted Kobe's ass actually in 2003

[Goran Dragic]

Tbh this talk is stupid till the finals are over. If he nuts up Boston like he did to Phoenix and wills his team to a championship, then he's def. a top 5 player of all time and in my book 3rd only to MJ and Kareem. If the finals is a repeat of 2008, then all the MJ talk is ridiculous.

This is just me, but I judge players a lot based on how long they maintain a high level of play, which is why I've always thought Hakeem was overrated. Regardless of how many championships he wins, a big thing for me is how long Kobe will be able to keep up a high level of play.

[D2Procon]

Tbh this talk is stupid till the finals are over. If he nuts up Boston like he did to Phoenix and wills his team to a championship, then he's def. a top 5 player of all time and in my book 3rd only to MJ and Kareem. If the finals is a repeat of 2008, then all the MJ talk is ridiculous.

This is just me, but I judge players a lot based on how long they maintain a high level of play, which is why I've always thought Hakeem was overrated. Regardless of how many championships he wins, a big thing for me is how long Kobe will be able to keep up a high level of play.

But what Magic Johnson didn't feel like playing game 1 of the 1987 finals?