Is Gasol a top 50 NBA player?

[MiamiHeat]

btw, to say top-50, as it if justifies anything, is sort of obsolete. bunch of guys that are in today's game that will probably be on it when all is said an done, thereby changing the list. it's not an immutable list by any means, which is why it's a stupid list to create if your're not going to say "the top 50 bball players of all-time until blah blah year."

you are completely correct in that regard

[xellos88330]

I don't think he is a top 50 player. He couldn't get out of the first round when he was leading the Grizz.

[BadOdor]

I don't think he is a top 50 player. He couldn't get out of the first round when he was leading the Grizz.

Screw getting out of the first round.....he never won a single game in the playoffs.

[dirk4mvp]

and this is the with Chris Bosh too

he's good enough to be a #2 option on a championship team. He's just pissed away his career in Toronto, just like KG did in Minny. If KG never went to Boston, KG would have been forgotten in history and labeled a loser.

This is unfair bull because they played on ty teams.

Same deal with Gasol. The Grizzlies SUCK and always have sucked, but Gasol took unfair heat. Now he is on the Lakers, now people realize he was always a really good NBA talent, just like Kobe is.

Don't hate.

You know jack . Those Grizzlies' teams were very solid teams. Don't make excuses just because Gasol went 0-12 as a #1.

[cobbler]

Don't hate.

[cobbler]

top 50 this... top 100 that... team of the decade... MVP's (season and playoffs)... All star votes... GOAT... #1 option... #2 option... supporting cast... etc... etc...

blah blah blah

All that matters is les and we are down by 2 hoping to close the gap to one. So you can have all the seasonal trinkets you like... I want the ultimate goal and that is and always will be the ring.

[v2freak]

I'd say he is in the top 500 of all time.

[MiamiHeat]

You know jack . Those Grizzlies' teams were very solid teams. Don't make excuses just because Gasol went 0-12 as a #1.

Who did they have that made those teams very solid? I am listening.

Gasol was Rookie of the Year averaged 18 ppg and 9 rbg, and he's only gotten better since.

He led the Grizzlies to their first ever playoff appearance. also led Spain to 2006 FIBA Championship, winning the MVP of the tournament.

Grizzlies lost to the 2004 defending champion Spurs ;

The 2005 Western conference finalist Phoenix Suns;

the 2006 Western conference champions Dallas Mavs;


so again, let's hear your theories on why the Grizzlies should have beaten those teams.

[SomeCallMeTim]

They always have and that's because he didn't have enough help. If the Spurs sign Splitter and Blair improves, he'll finally have legitimate help on the front line (throw in McDyess, as well). Duncan has "run out of gas" because the Spurs were asking him to do things that they shouldn't be at this point in his career. Like Garnett with the Celtics, if he's able to play a reduced role and not be counted on as much, he can still play, only unlike Garnett, he can play at or close to an elite level.

The Spurs don't need a renaissance from him. Why can the Celtics get by without a prototypical go-to scorer on a championship caliber team and do it by committee with Pierce, Rondo, Allen and Garnett, but the Spurs can't with Duncan, Ginobili, Parker, Hill and Jefferson? I don't get why this is so difficult for people to fathom.

The hope for improvement is exactly what I detailed in my previous post. Not just as a fan do I hope they sign Splitter and add a veteran wing to provide 3D, but just to be able to tell people "I told you so", I hope they do. I honestly think if they do that and remain healthy, like I said, at minimum they give the Lakers their toughest test in the West since acquiring Gasol.

Please don't interpret my take as "hating" on Duncan. If there's any star in the league I wish success outside of "my team" it's him. Great, great player, classy as they come.

I think the "remain healthy" part is just too unlikely at this point, a lot in part due to age, Duncan included. That's why I don't see your scenario developing. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong (to a point, still want the Lakers in the Finals next season).

Duncan played only 32 MPG this season. I guess you could really limit his role and have him at sub-30 MPG. Chances are that puts the Spurs where they were this season, a low seed. Needless to say that I don't like the Spurs' chances if that happens again.

IMO KG is playing at a high level right now, arguably elite factoring his effect on both sides of the court.

[Ghazi]

Those Grizzlies teams just lost the series they were supposed to lose though. It just so happened everytime Gasol went up against a better team with a better superstar (lol Pau > Dirk)...

THe only thing you can say is that he should've at least been able to win 1 game. but alas.

[TD 21]

Please don't interpret my take as "hating" on Duncan. If there's any star in the league I wish success outside of "my team" it's him. Great, great player, classy as they come.

I think the "remain healthy" part is just too unlikely at this point, a lot in part due to age, Duncan included. That's why I don't see your scenario developing. I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong (to a point, still want the Lakers in the Finals next season).

Duncan played only 32 MPG this season. I guess you could really limit his role and have him at sub-30 MPG. Chances are that puts the Spurs where they were this season, a low seed. Needless to say that I don't like the Spurs' chances if that happens again.

IMO KG is playing at a high level right now, arguably elite factoring his effect on both sides of the court.

Why, because of half a season (second half of 08-09)? He held up last season. The problem is the Spurs wore him down, after he carried them for half a season. Then, when he got his second wind to start the playoffs, they wore him down again. Twice he played an entire half and close to a full game. He just can't or at least shouldn't be doing that anymore. But because he doesn't have a quality, young big next to him, like Bynum or Perkins, when the Spurs are pressed they just resort to running him into the ground like it's the old days.

It's not the minutes, it's how arduous and demanding many of those minutes were. He doesn't get to just coast on offense, take the occasional jumper, not bang in the paint, not sprint out to set umpteen high screens and not be counted on to clean the glass or block shots, like Garnett. If the Spurs sign Splitter and Blair improves (it's not like either is out of the question; in fact, both are probably more likely than not), he should finally get the help/rest he deserves. The minutes will probably be similar (slightly less, I'd imagine) than last season, but they should be easier and maybe he can sit out the odd game of a back to back as well.

But you're ignoring the many reasons why they were a low seed. Many of which I've already explained won't be an issue next season.

Garnett at arguably an elite level? He's playing relatively well, but he's a glorified role player at this point in his career, with limited responsibilities. Duncan is playing at a much higher level. In fact, there might be a wider gap between them now than ever.

[dirk4mvp]

Who did they have that made those teams very solid? I am listening.

Gasol was Rookie of the Year averaged 18 ppg and 9 rbg, and he's only gotten better since.

He led the Grizzlies to their first ever playoff appearance. also led Spain to 2006 FIBA Championship, winning the MVP of the tournament.

Grizzlies lost to the 2004 defending champion Spurs ;

The 2005 Western conference finalist Phoenix Suns;

the 2006 Western conference champions Dallas Mavs;


so again, let's hear your theories on why the Grizzlies should have beaten those teams.

Can you direct me to where I said the Grizzlies were supposed to win those series? Thanks.

[MiamiHeat]

2006 Memphis Grizzlies roster, that got swept by the eventual Western conference champion Dallas Mavericks :


1) 31 yr old Chucky Atkins, currently bench fodder on the Pistons.

2) Antonio Burks, released from NBA teams and now playing in Europe

3) Bobby Jackson, retired

4) Dahntay Jones, journeyman

5) 34 year old Eddie Jones

etc....


the only noteworthy guy on that team is Mike Miller.

[cobbler]

I haven't seen anyone say they should have won any of those series.

Just one game out of 12 is all.

[cobbler]

2004
Posey,J.Williams, Bonzi, Stromile, Miller, Battier, Outlaw, Wright, Watson etc

2005
Posey,J.Williams, Bonzi, Stromile, Miller, Battier, Outlaw, Wright, Watson etc

2006
Eddie Jones, Bobby Jackson, Miller, Battier, D. Stoudamire, Wright, Warrick etc


Just ONE game....

[dirk4mvp]

Holy MiamiHeat is re ed.

In 04 the Grizzlies had 5 guys who avg'd double figures and 2 other guys who were at 9.5.

In 05 the Grizzlies had 5 guys who avg'd double figures and Battier at 9.9

In 06 the Grizzlies had 7 guys who avg'd double figures and gave up 89 ppg.

That's not enough to win 1 playoff game?

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[PT Cruiser]

lol pt cruiser

you!

[hitmanyr2k]

2004
Posey,J.Williams, Bonzi, Stromile, Miller, Battier, Outlaw, Wright, Watson etc

2005
Posey,J.Williams, Bonzi, Stromile, Miller, Battier, Outlaw, Wright, Watson etc

2006
Eddie Jones, Bobby Jackson, Miller, Battier, D. Stoudamire, Wright, Warrick etc


Just ONE game....

I don't see one game changer or legit 2nd option in that entire list of players. I see a bunch of roleplayers there. The Grizzlies were pretty much overmatched at every position. I don't see one player that was superior or even equal to the '04 Spurs team...not one matchup advantage. And who in the on that Grizzly roster is going to match up with the high-scoring prowess of Steve Nash and the Phoenix Suns? That Suns team in '05 had scorers coming out of their ass .The Grizzlies didn't even have close to the firepower to match up. Same goes for the series against the '06 Mavericks. It's asking for a miracle for them to win a game against these high powered teams. The Grizz were first round fodder for the mostpart.

[MiamiHeat]

I don't see one game changer or legit 2nd option in that entire list of players. I see a bunch of roleplayers there. The Grizzlies were pretty much overmatched at every position. I don't see one player that was superior or even equal to the '04 Spurs team...not one matchup advantage. And who in the on that Grizzly roster is going to match up with the high-scoring prowess of Steve Nash and the Phoenix Suns? That Suns team in '05 had scorers coming out of their ass .The Grizzlies didn't even have close to the firepower to match up. Same goes for the series against the '06 Mavericks. It's asking for a miracle for them to win a game against these high powered teams. The Grizz were first round fodder for the mostpart.

this man here has an education

If anything, the Grizzlies overachieved thanks to Pau Gasol. Blaming him is absurd.

[TDMVPDPOY]

it depends if he wins finals mvp

but then again...his resume looks , does he have any all nba teams and defensive team aawards?

[duncan228]

...does he have any all nba teams and defensive team aawards?

2001-02 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (3rd)

2001-02 NBA Rookie of the Year

All-Star Games

2006 NBA
2009 NBA
2010 NBA

[SomeCallMeTim]

Mike Miller, James Posey, Battier, Outlaw, Bonzi, Jason Williams, Wesley Person. Of course you'll call them scrubs now.

Mike Miller's an excellent player when healthy -- definitely underrated. The other guys very good role players.

That collection of players sounds about exactly what they got -- 50 some wins and jack squat in the playoffs.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Why, because of half a season (second half of 08-09)? He held up last season. The problem is the Spurs wore him down, after he carried them for half a season. Then, when he got his second wind to start the playoffs, they wore him down again. Twice he played an entire half and close to a full game. He just can't or at least shouldn't be doing that anymore. But because he doesn't have a quality, young big next to him, like Bynum or Perkins, when the Spurs are pressed they just resort to running him into the ground like it's the old days.

It's not the minutes, it's how arduous and demanding many of those minutes were. He doesn't get to just coast on offense, take the occasional jumper, not bang in the paint, not sprint out to set umpteen high screens and not be counted on to clean the glass or block shots, like Garnett. If the Spurs sign Splitter and Blair improves (it's not like either is out of the question; in fact, both are probably more likely than not), he should finally get the help/rest he deserves. The minutes will probably be similar (slightly less, I'd imagine) than last season, but they should be easier and maybe he can sit out the odd game of a back to back as well.

But you're ignoring the many reasons why they were a low seed. Many of which I've already explained won't be an issue next season.

Garnett at arguably an elite level? He's playing relatively well, but he's a glorified role player at this point in his career, with limited responsibilities. Duncan is playing at a much higher level. In fact, there might be a wider gap between them now than ever.

OK. Fair enough and you make good points.

We'll see how the 2011 season develops. Like I said, wouldn't mind at all seeing the Spurs give Duncan one last shot at contending. You make a good case for why this may well happen... I am dubious but hey, that's why they play the games. Plenty unforeseen happened this year, I am sure plenty more will happen next season.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Holy MiamiHeat is re ed.

In 04 the Grizzlies had 5 guys who avg'd double figures and 2 other guys who were at 9.5.

In 05 the Grizzlies had 5 guys who avg'd double figures and Battier at 9.9

In 06 the Grizzlies had 7 guys who avg'd double figures and gave up 89 ppg.

That's not enough to win 1 playoff game?

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Would somebody be kind enough to summarize the story behind pizza, PT cruiser, and chatroulette vis a vis our dear friend here?

Inquiring minds want to know. Thankee.

[TheMACHINE]

damn sons....all i needed was a yes or no.