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Like I said, some don't see things the same way.
Besides, my statement was not specific in any fashion. I mean, are there not 365 days a year, except every 4th year? Do we not revolve around the sun? These facts imply order.
It's an observation based off of your opinion.... nothing more.
my main point still stands...
The universe is anything but orderly..
Of course, I expect the obligitory response of "we cant possibly comprehend the mind of a God".
Like I said, some don't see things the same way.
Besides, my statement was not specific in any fashion. I mean, are there not 365 days a year, except every 4th year? Do we not revolve around the sun? These facts imply order.
It's funny how people praise God when good things happen though.
Seriously, Im not being sarcastic or condescending.
Why do people do that? But yet when bad things happen, you hear no mention of God?
Was it Gods will that you lost? Or was it Satan? Why this person and not that person?
Was one more devout than the other?
They imply physics.
They imply gravity.
Its not some magical force holding them there.
z0sa, Im not attacking you. In fact, I think this is a great discussion!
If I'm coming across as condescending, I'm sorry, I have 2 beers left from an 18 pack, so forgive me if I came across that way.
damn, I really didnt realize I drank that much tonight until I went to get this next beer.
"Implies physics"? Perhaps you should pherase.
How does the existence of gravity prove the universe is disorderly? It seems to play a key part of the universe's order.
Nah man, I'm drinking too. Which si why I said early on, some peeps don't see it the same way. That's cool.
Question though...
If it was so orderly.... why not have 365 days a year every year?
True, its our human made calander thats part of the problem.... but still.
When it comes to the size of galaxies you would think an omnipotent being would take a minor thing (to such a being) like gravity into account and not have entire galaxies coliding with eachother.... just saying, from what I have read he is infallible. Evidence seems to point out otherwise.
you answered. The mayans had a more accurate calendar than the Europeans hundreds of years before them. And that fact, that ancient peoples could simply study the skies and seasons and discover these things, implies order, at least for me. There's a system, that while filled with a lot of factors with random values, still exists.
Oh, I know all about the Mayan calander.... Are you really expecting the earth to end in 2012 though?
That calander is a miniscule sampling of the goings on of the universe. It's like 1 grain of sand compared to all of the beaches of the Earth and more. They looked at the stars from our planets prospective. Are you saying they knew that there where 10's of billions of stars in our galaxy and that we are just 1 of billions of other galaxies?
If so, who gave them that knowledge? Im not saying that aliens or anything gave them that knowledge, its just conjecture on my part.
I see order in the universe as well, but to me it can almost all be explained mathematically. Sure there are things that science doesnt know yet but not even several hundred years ago people thought the earth was flat.... , people STILL think so to this day!!!
http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/
To think, todays cell phone is 15 times faster than the Cray super computer from 1979! Think about that for a minute..... We are accellerating our understanding of things at an unprecidented rate... Science gets things wrong all the time, but thats the beauty of science.... it admits that its wrong and continues on looking for the truth.
You could look at any of the old Star Trek episodes and actually laugh at some of the tech they have compared to today, and thats supposed to be in the 24th century!!!!
Touch screens....
automatic sliding doors...
plasma engines...
, even teleportation is starting to come out, although its just at the single photon level at this point and it was only across just over 3 feet. That was done back in 1998 and over coaxle cable mind you. They are now experimenting with lasers and .
Last edited by phyzik; 06-04-2010 at 03:02 AM.
You are just begging someone to post ICP's Miracles.
phyzik, 35 (thus far known) finely tuned physical constants which govern the entire universe imply order...
At least 15 of these constants are so sensitive (at infintessimal values) that the probability that all of their values would be set to cater to a universe with matter, atoms, stars and enough carbon and oxygen to sustain life is for all intents and purposes zero... that implies purpose...
As I've stated on many occasions... this observation was a major driving factor in steering Albert Einstein towards a Deist position...
You may imply that universal dynamics are "messy"... but that in itself is a subjective take. The way I see it, black holes are required to keep galaxies together. So while you may consider them to be destructive forces, their gravitational influence makes the galaxies go round.
How is Atheism becoming religious?
for one, we have no idea what the correlation of any apparent disorder has with any apparent order in the universe in any particular environment. this is the general idea behind chaos theory. secondly, not all theological assertions directly assign the mechanics of the universe as being under the domain of God.
perhaps it would have been more accurate for him to have said 'metaphysical'.
i'm not even sure that the mayans believed the year 2012 to be the end all year. they did believe in other catalcysmic events and also believed this 5th sun to be the last one for earth. their mythology is fascinating. it would be really cool to see a jungian analysis of their principle motifs.
I seem to remember reading that the mayan calandar did indeed extend beyond 2012, and it was just one particular interpretation of their calendar that stopped in 2012.
Their modern decendents, when asked, certainly don't consider 2012 to be the End Of Time.
Basically the thing appears to be overblown hysterical bull . Fun in a fashion, but fertilizer nonetheless.
Indeed. It is quite... random.
HA!
it is also a solid foundation for really bad hollywood movies.
You seem to me to be basing your views of all people of religious faith upon the actions and beliefs of only a portion.You preach Man was made in your gods image, then turn around and attack those very same people made in his image for discovering things that might have the slightest chance of shattering your fantasy?
it does appear to be an argument of an exclusive nature and not at all categorical .
This is an argument from ignorance.Naturalism alone cannot account for the inception of life.
If we don't know what caused X, you don't get to fill it in with your favored theory.
We haven't yet figured out exactly how life sprang from non-life therefore God did it, is an argument from ignorance.
It has the same logical form as "We haven't yet figured out exactly how life sprang from non-life therefore Bigfoot did it".
2,000 years ago, we hadn't yet figure out what the sun was, so the prevailing theories of the time were sun-chariots of some sort.
This argument has already been pretty thoroughly debunked as spurious, decades ago when it was fist made.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CB/CB010.html
This assertion is dismissed.
Next fallacy?
Appeal to popularity.If some of the brightest minds ever have come to the realization that our universe was created, how is it you all can nonchalantly ignore the significance of their realization?
http://www.nizkor.org/features/falla...opularity.html
I can non-chalantly dismiss any logical fallacy, no matter how seemingly significant you might think it is. Someone in the future might discover some evidence that God exists, but people like you have yet to show any. Your claim, your burden of proof.
also debunked as spurious
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA112.html
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