Here We Go Again...Parker to NY talk

[TD 21]

It comes down to whether their primary concern is winning another championship in the Duncan era, or whether it's completely re-building around Duncan and Ginobili. For an organization that claims to be all about championships and indicated as much last summer with their spending, the prudent thing to do would be to keep Parker (even if he were involved in a deal for Favors, the Spurs aren't winning another championship in the Duncan era with the inexperienced/raw Favors next to him), sign Splitter and bring in a veteran wing to provide 3D.Then, the Spurs would have a cadre (in addition to whoever they draft in the 1st round) of quality young players and a team that on paper at least should be of championship caliber. That would allow them to have their cake and eat it too.

[MaNu4Tres]

Lots of 3 way trades could happen, if Knicks where willing to deal Gillinari and Chandler with Duhon or Tony Dougles and Future picks I think the spurs consider it. Spurs loved Douglus out of FSt he can defend and is a great shooter, and Chandler is a spurs type defender who can score.....Gillinari looks the part of a poor mans Dirk.

IMO I think Gallinari, Chandler + Curry's expiring might be the best the Knicks could offer for the situation the Spurs are currently in. It would give the Spurs something to ponder about for a couple of minutes before they would ultimately conclude that the package still isn't enough to give up an All-Star point guard.

Unfortunately, the Knicks don't have a first round pick until 2013. Which really hurts their aspirations to offer a good enough deal to acquire Parker.

In regards to David Lee, I was too lazy to write out my opinion on his situation again.

Why would the Spurs want to spend an extra 10-12 million dollars a year on another front-court player, when Splitter is pretty much coming over here for less than half that price?

With Splitter the front-court is pretty much set with Duncan/Splitter/McDyess and Blair. The value of his 10-12 million dollar contract on the Spurs would be one of the worst with the minutes available in the front-court.

Now if we were talking about Bosh or an elite big man, where the drop-off in talent is more significant then I'd think it would be worth it.

But IMO David Lee is not an elite big man and I don't think the drop-off in talent between Splitter and Lee is significant enough to warrant a 10-12 million salary addition to the already set front-court(if Splitter comes over) .

Don't get me wrong Lee had a great year last year, but IMO Lee's numbers were inflated with the system he was in. Those numbers and his productivity wouldn't be anywhere near the same in the Spurs system.


IMO It's pretty dumb basketball economics to make a move for Lee with Splitter coming over.

[Cane]

, but if the Spurs just don't want to commit a lucrative, long-term contract to Parker, then I don't get it.

To play the Spurs FO advocate, I can come up with a reason why they wouldn't want to commit a long-term contract to Parker. And that deals solely with playing for the French NT. He's still young and very patriotic so he'd probably be playing for France throughout the contract and his style is very injury-prone. Might not be worth the gamble on that alone since he already has an injury history and has a lot of mileage for his age.

I realize Ginobili is in a similar position except his minutes will likely go down due to his age and veteran role he should assume for Argentina. Also I don't think the Spurs would want to deal with Parker's international injuries in addition to Manu's. Then there's Tiago and whether or not he'll do the same.

Spurs are probably tired of having their stars and team's NBA potential get wasted away by their patriotism.

[ploto]

We really do not know what is going on with contract talks and Parker. The Spurs are not going to pay him the max, especially after last season. Manu does not get it. IIRC, even Tim structured his contract such that he took less than the maximum. Lots of players have taken less money to come and/or to stay with the Spurs. Maybe, Tony says he will walk if he does not get the max and the Spurs figure they should get something for him now. Not saying it would be the Knicks, but it needs to be someone who will fork over the big dough to him the following season.

[Mel_13]

We really do not know what is going on with contract talks and Parker. The Spurs are not going to pay him the max, especially after last season. Manu does not get it. IIRC, even Tim structured his contract such that he took less than the maximum. Lots of players have taken less money to come and/or to stay with the Spurs. Maybe, Tony says he will walk if he does not get the max and the Spurs figure they should get something for him now. Not saying it would be the Knicks, but it needs to be someone who will fork over the big dough to him the following season.

Maximum extensions and maximum contracts are not the same thing. Players not already on a maximum contract can only get a maximum contract by becoming a free agent and signing a new contract. Tony is not on a maximum contract. Manu was not on a maximum contract. Tim, of course, has been on a maximum contract since 2000.

Manu did get the maximum possible extension based on the value of his existing contract and his age. Tim took less than the maximum possible extension (approximately 10M below max over the course of two seasons).

Anything Tony signs before June 30, 2011 would be an extension, not a new contract. We really have no idea if Tony will be seeking the maximum possible extension or what portion of it the Spurs may be willing to offer.

[ploto]

Maximum extensions and maximum contracts are not the same thing. Players not already on a maximum contract can only get a maximum contract by becoming a free agent and signing a new contract.

I know the difference. I am talking about Tony wanting a max contract next summer not an extension on his current contract. Some reports are that Tony expects a max deal next summer. So, if the Spurs already know this and know they will not give it to him, then they can get something for him now while they have all the control. I do not anticipate Tony signing any extension on his current contract with the Spurs.

[Mel_13]

I know the difference. I am talking about Tony wanting a max contract next summer not an extension on his current contract. Some reports are that Tony expects a max deal next summer. So, if the Spurs already know this and know they will not give it to him, then they can get something for him now while they have all the control. I do not anticipate Tony signing any extension on his current contract with the Spurs.

In interviews given last month Tony said that he expects to begin negotiations with the Spurs on an extension in October. Given that a max extension comes out to roughly 5yrs/90M and a new contract would be under the terms of a yet to be quantified new CBA, it's understandable that Tony will seek a lucrative extension under the current rules.

[DJ Mbenga]

this would be a salary dump style trade.

[Pauleta14]

Anything Tony signs before June 30, 2011 would be an extension, not a new contract .

What would a max extension worth?

[Mel_13]

What would a max extension worth?

Round numbers: 5yrs/90M

[Pauleta14]

Round numbers: 5yrs/90M

thanks

what do you guys thinks Tony should/deserves to get? (if extented)

I was thinking 5yrs/80M...

[Pauleta14]

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...ries/spurs.jsp

According to that link (assuming I am reading that right, which I probably am not) since Parker has been with the Spurs for 10+ years after next season his first year extension for a max contract can't be higher than $18,928,700-ish. But there is likely some kind of percent increase limit from the last contract. (Again accoring to the link) Tony is making $13,650,000 next season. So As Mel said above I would guess anywhere between 5/90 and 5/100 million is a good guess.

That would be too much for the salary cap balance, I hope he/they find a way to offer him a good raise with keeping some cap flexibility...

Tony accepting less money than what he could seek elsewhere to allow the team to be compe ive wouldn't surprise me, he has a great model/leader in Tim who's already done it!

[Mel_13]

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pa...ries/spurs.jsp

According to that link (assuming I am reading that right, which I probably am not) since Parker has been with the Spurs for 10+ years after next season his first year extension for a max contract can't be higher than $18,928,700-ish. But there is likely some kind of percent increase limit from the last contract. (Again accoring to the link) Tony is making $13,650,000 next season. So As Mel said above I would guess anywhere between 5/90 and 5/100 million is a good guess.

A number around 19M would be a first year salary on a new contract, not an extension. That also would assume that the rules on max contracts and the distribution of revenues between players and ownership remain the same under the new CBA. Since a new contract would not be signed until after the 2011 CBA is signed, that figure could change dramatically.

A max extension would be signed under the current rules. As such, the numbers can be calculated exactly. Based on his 2010-11 salary of 13.65M, a maximum extension for Tony would be 5yrs/91.25M.

[Pauleta14]

Not sure really. That seems fair in all honesty. Tony is the Spurs best scorer. However he is 29 after next season and that means he'll be 34 when his contract expires. Which means if the Spurs give him that 5/80 mil you suggested then TP will make around $18,160,355 (going based off Elton Brand's 5/80 million contract he signed two summers ago with the 76ers, I remember being excited about that signing )

5yrs/80M means more 16M/year...

Both parts has to leave/give something anyway!

+ As for Manu, don't forget he costed almost nothing for 4 YEARS...
Even his present contract was a "bargain" for the spurs if you look at the market fore elite PG...

I mean he deserves a good contract as much for what he will do than what he has done... in a way!

ps/ About the "NT factor", I trust Tony to be smart enough and willing to keep being good for dealing the right way with it in the coming years...

[Pauleta14]

Thanks for the info, but I would like to have your personal opinion about what should get.

If you were the Spurs GM, what would you do?

[Mel_13]

Thanks for the info, but I would like to have your personal opinion about what should get.

If you were the Spurs GM, what would you do?

Wait.

There are so many uncertainties right now.

1. Can Tony return to his 2008-09 level?

2. If so, how long can he be expected to perform at something near that level?

3. How will other parts of the team develop and perform? Can the team contend with Tony going forward?

4. How extensively will the rules change under the new CBA? Ownership will push for a lower percentage of revenues for the players, shorter contracts, and fewer guarantees.

So unless Tony is willing to take much, much less than a maximum extension (say 4/55), I would wait until the answers to the above questions are more apparent than they are now.

[Mel_13]

The only down side of the "wait and see" method is that a mid-season point guard trade kills teams. And if Tony does play well in a "contract year" and test the market what keeps him from moving to a place where he can make more money off the major market and earn similar money on the court.

I don't like the idea of trading for a draft pick because every prospect is unproven. But if the Spurs can get Devin Harris and the 3rd pick, that is hard to pass up.

Waiting certainly carries risk. IMO, the risks associated with vastly overpaying one player are even greater. That's just my opinion and I've been wrong before.

Unlike some others around here, I believe that both Tony and the Spurs wish to continue the relationship. Whether or not they can come to a financial agreement that both sides can live with remains to be seen.

[Ice009]

thanks

what do you guys thinks Tony should/deserves to get? (if extented)

I was thinking 5yrs/80M...

If Tony can get back to the level he was at in the second half of 2009 then I'd say he is worth the max. He was absolutely awesome that season and carried the Spurs. Deron Williams and Chris Paul didn't have their best seasons and I thought at the end of the season Tony was close to being the number 1 PG in the NBA. He was approaching Superstar level. Some of these articles are really underrating a prime time Tony Parker big time.

If he plays like this season though then he is not even top 5 and I wouldn't give him close to the max at all. Very tough call. What do you think? It's tough for the Spurs to give out that kind of money because they simply can't afford it. I'd love it if a billionaire bought the team or at least part ownership of it. Can that even be done?

[DesignatedT]

Tony should get nothing over a 5 year/75 million $ extension, and I think he will go for that.

[Mikesatx]

The thread has evolved from a trade with New York to what is Tony worth. I know Hollinger is hit or miss on this site but I don't know a better system for quantifying a players value/effectiveness. He has Tim as #1 for player efficiency rating for centers during the regular season. He has Manu as #2 for shooting guards and Tony #18 for point guards. I don't believe Tony is the 18th best point guard in the league but I also don't believe he is anywhere near a max deal. He wouldn't take a deal anywhere close to what Ginobili took but that is where I think his value is.

[ducks]

he was a max deal when he was the top 3 point guard two years ago
last year no year before MAX

[kaji157]

he was a max deal when he was the top 3 point guard two years ago
last year no year before MAX

Tony was never a max player for the Spurs, maybe for other teams he was, but not for the Spurs, max players should be top 5 in their position and Parker was that only one year here.

Anyway, before you start crying over this, i don't think Ginobili is a max player either, he was just given the max because his age makes his max contract a not so big deal. If Ginobili were eligible for a real max contract he woldn't be given that.

[Pauleta14]

If Tony can get back to the level he was at in the second half of 2009 then I'd say he is worth the max. He was absolutely awesome that season and carried the Spurs. Deron Williams and Chris Paul didn't have their best seasons and I thought at the end of the season Tony was close to being the number 1 PG in the NBA. He was approaching Superstar level. Some of these articles are really underrating a prime time Tony Parker big time.

If he plays like this season though then he is not even top 5 and I wouldn't give him close to the max at all. Very tough call. What do you think? It's tough for the Spurs to give out that kind of money because they simply can't afford it. I'd love it if a billionaire bought the team or at least part ownership of it. Can that even be done?

I love TP, but even if he regains his 2009 production, I wouldn't (as spurs GM) give him the max because you don't have much less for the role players after that.
That being said, with RJ contract gone and Timmy 1 more year left, he can be offered a 80M-85M/5years, with the 1st year being "low" paid to balance Timmy's last year (who will probably, if healthy extend for a much lesser salary) ...

PS/ Most of people only see TP's speed as his main/only strength (fearing that the older he gets, the worst he will be) but he brings way more than that and can ONLY get better in so many areas in that environement...

I don't think there should be that many doubts/fears about Tony's health/production in the FO's mind, it's much more a business/money decision for them.

[024]

if the spurs trade parker, it would be pretty sad. the spurs used up cap space to get a mediocre SF and then gave their aging injury prone shooting guard an expensive extension just so they can trade their youngest member of the core and all star caliber scorer? wtf?

[Mikesatx]

The Spurs traded Bowen who retired and Thomas and Oberto for Jefferson. On paper the trade was completely lopsided. Jefferson didn't live up to expectations. If Manu opts for free agency he gets more than we gave him and when healthy is a top talent in the league. You max or near max Parker you assume the core 3 is enough. Most would agree it isn't. You trade him or let him walk next year with jefferson off the books you have some room to strengthen the front court. You don't give him away but if you can improve the team you do it. Improving the team may mean you don't get a player or players as talented as parker but the overall team is better. When we traded Antonio Daniels for Kerr Daniels was clearly the better player but the team was better with Kerr.