Marcus Jordan on twitter : It's an insult to my dad to compare Kobe to him

[Killakobe81]

Call it what you will but when the topic was posed, I simply stated my view.

As to not knowing what's going through someone's mind? Yeah, we never really know what's going through someone's mind. But it's not all that crazy to draw some conclusions as to the type of person someone is from their actions and by the way they conduct themselves.

I don't disagree with Jam that the situations and cir stances dictated an apples to oranges scenario in that respect, but my opinion basically comes down to the men they were and what that led them to be on the court.

Contrary to popular belief, you can have a great disdain for a person and player and still have a great respect for his game. This is the approach I've always had with Kobe. I'm not some Jordan fanboy trying to do whatever's in my power to discredit Kobe's claim to MJ's throne. If I honestly believed he was his equal or better, I'd tell you. But it seems with a lot of fans you're never going to get an honest debate if their guy is seemingly being dissed or diminished, which is a no-win proposition when you're telling someone their not as good as the GOAT; saying he's not as good as the greatest of all-time is somehow a slight because he's the loser of the argument.

I believe Kobe's most likely the second greatest 2-guard of all-time and a Top-10 player when it's all said and done, maybe better than that. So nothing I've said is about Kobe being inept or not worthy of being discussed with the greats, I just don't think there's any legitimate argument to say that he's better than MJ or his equal.

That's just my honest opinion.

I agree I just dont think MJ is "untouchable" if someone wants to make that argument Kobe>Mj let them isnt that what sports is about?

I dont even mind the trolls CR and Miami heat doing it (hate on kobe or say MJ>>>>better) ...just leave it to basketball not motivations or mindset.

If you think MJ>Kobe based on stats use those ...I agree he has better stats

If you thinkMJ>Kobe based on les ... agreed 6>5

just dont give me colorado, he is not likeable, or any moral arguments

OR

Psychoanlaysis ...about why he does what he does? Who knows even Phil could not figure out kobe at first.

If you judge sport debates simply by who you "like" better than in essence you are a woman ...or a child.

[Blackjack]

The Omnipotent One is neither woman nor child. He s birth and eats existence. He is all.

[JamStone]

Accomplishments and statistics go down in stone. They are recoverable and viewable at a click of the mouse. Kobe will not ever touch Jordan in those two regards. Jordan will always be statistically greater. He will always be undefeated in the Finals. He will always be the more efficient shooter. It is essentially impossible for Kobe to win more League MVPs or Finals MVPs. Kobe simply will never be the greater player statistically or in terms of individual honors.

Kobe can only catch him in number of championships.

But I do think when people try to bring up the comparison, even though Kobe loses every time and should, it's a matter of comparing the two beyond simply statistics and accolades. That's why I mention the mentality and approach. Work ethic and will to win. Skills wise, Kobe is actually a slightly better jump shooter. I personally think he has better handles than Michael did. Kobe might even be the better play-maker in terms of creating for others. Thing is neither of them ever did it with much regularity. But those aren't necessarily quantifiable or tangible things. People will automatically go to their stats, their awards. And there's justification in that. Michael is simply greater.

When I do make the comparison, it's beyond that. I think physically, Kobe compares quite well with Jordan. Jordan was a slightly better athlete who jumped higher and had enormous hands, which allowed him to do things Kobe probably can't do. But it's not like Kobe is a slouch athletically. Skill-wise, I think Kobe is right there with Jordan. All the skills, the polish, the touch, the technique. I don't have a problem comparing Kobe to Jordan in that respect, none whatsoever. And I really do think Kobe has a comparable mentality and mental toughness and mental approach to the game and killer instinct. I think he falls right in line with how Michael approached the game. It's hard to provide evidence for that though.

At the end of the day, Kobe can't touch Jordan. He'll always be a mere copy. But I don't think it's such a bad thing to open a conversation comparing the two. There isn't another player in the NBA ever you really legitimately can other than Kobe.

[Blackjack]

Accomplishments and statistics go down in stone. They are recoverable and viewable at a click of the mouse. Kobe will not ever touch Jordan in those two regards. Jordan will always be statistically greater. He will always be undefeated in the Finals. He will always be the more efficient shooter. It is essentially impossible for Kobe to win more League MVPs or Finals MVPs. Kobe simply will never be the greater player statistically or in terms of individual honors.

Kobe can only catch him in number of championships.

But I do think when people try to bring up the comparison, even though Kobe loses every time and should, it's a matter of comparing the two beyond simply statistics and accolades. That's why I mention the mentality and approach. Work ethic and will to win. Skills wise, Kobe is actually a slightly better jump shooter. I personally think he has better handles than Michael did. Kobe might even be the better play-maker in terms of creating for others. Thing is neither of them ever did it with much regularity. But those aren't necessarily quantifiable or tangible things. People will automatically go to their stats, their awards. And there's justification in that. Michael is simply greater.

When I do make the comparison, it's beyond that. I think physically, Kobe compares quite well with Jordan. Jordan was a slightly better athlete who jumped higher and had enormous hands, which allowed him to do things Kobe probably can't do. But it's not like Kobe is a slouch athletically. Skill-wise, I think Kobe is right there with Jordan. All the skills, the polish, the touch, the technique. I don't have a problem comparing Kobe to Jordan in that respect, none whatsoever. And I really do think Kobe has a comparable mentality and mental toughness and mental approach to the game and killer instinct. I think he falls right in line with how Michael approached the game. It's hard to provide evidence for that though.

At the end of the day, Kobe can't touch Jordan. He'll always be a mere copy. But I don't think it's such a bad thing to open a conversation comparing the two. There isn't another player in the NBA ever you really legitimately can other than Kobe.

Very solid post and agree one-hundred percent with the bold. As a matter of fact, I don't think there's any doubt that Kobe's a better shooter and ballhandler than Jordan ever was. Phil always likes to talk about the biggest difference being MJ's mitts, and it's definitely an advantage, but they're actually quite comparable if you just look at the skills. MJ was a more explosive athlete but it wasn't by huge margins.

As I stated before, I agree that their maniacal drives and wills to win were comparable as well. But there's just always been a flaw in Kobe's psyche/mentality that has always deterred him from bridging the gap with MJ. It's that component that would have Kobe be a facilitator for halves at a time or simply not shoot as to prove a point. Games, playoff games, where he clearly felt the need to make or prove a point even if it cost the team and his opportunity to win. This is not psychobabble, this is tangible evidence that anyone who's watched the league for a good stretch of time can see.

Like you said, there are certain things that are unquantifiable that make a player better or different than the other. You just can't put it into words or find a statistic for it. And however close a player might be in all of the other aspects, whether it's skill, physicality, mentality or all of the above, that one little missing piece can create a gap that simply can't be closed.

How does one go about proving an opinion about the unquantifiable? Do you point to the fact that a player's a better shooter, yet shoots at a lower percentage with plenty of surrounding help? Maybe the inconceivable performances that have been coined "Weird Kobe" by a certain bag?

You're splitting hairs when you're comparing greatness at this echelon but there's legitimate reason to: MJ is the GOAT due to some quantifiable but more unquantifiable, IMO.

[JamStone]

Really good and really fair post.

[TDMVPDPOY]

jordan never took a 40pt beating in a finals game where his team needed him

[Kamnik]

hate that spoiled bas , but he speaks 100% truth with that

+1

[Killakobe81]

Very solid post and agree one-hundred percent with the bold. As a matter of fact, I don't think there's any doubt that Kobe's a better shooter and ballhandler than Jordan ever was. Phil always likes to talk about the biggest difference being MJ's mitts, and it's definitely an advantage, but they're actually quite comparable if you just look at the skills. MJ was a more explosive athlete but it wasn't by huge margins.

As I stated before, I agree that their maniacal drives and wills to win were comparable as well. But there's just always been a flaw in Kobe's psyche/mentality that has always deterred him from bridging the gap with MJ. It's that component that would have Kobe be a facilitator for halves at a time or simply not shoot as to prove a point. Games, playoff games, where he clearly felt the need to make or prove a point even if it cost the team and his opportunity to win. This is not psychobabble, this is tangible evidence that anyone who's watched the league for a good stretch of time can see.

Like you said, there are certain things that are unquantifiable that make a player better or different than the other. You just can't put it into words or find a statistic for it. And however close a player might be in all of the other aspects, whether it's skill, physicality, mentality or all of the above, that one little missing piece can create a gap that simply can't be closed.

How does one go about proving an opinion about the unquantifiable? Do you point to the fact that a player's a better shooter, yet shoots at a lower percentage with plenty of surrounding help? Maybe the inconceivable performances that have been coined "Weird Kobe" by a certain bag?

You're splitting hairs when you're comparing greatness at this echelon but there's legitimate reason to: MJ is the GOAT due to some quantifiable but more unquantifiable, IMO.

I dont know if you can say it's tangible because again we dealing with mindstate a bit...but well thought out post.

Jamstone brought the goods as well

And i always respect intelligent well thought out debate.

I DO NOT think Kobe = to MJ
so I really dont care who "wins" (if anybody can win) I more care that people are willing to actually listen to a debate ...even if their favorite player is involved.

(I can make a good one for Magic>MJ even more so than Kobe)

But I know MJ is the GOAT so do most people ...I just want there to be healthy dialogue. IMHO shaq could of been the GOAT if he had the drive and determination of Kobe or MJ

Lebron COULD still pass them both ...

So lets take MJ off this pedestal because SOMEONE someday will pass MJ ...just not sure that person is born yet.

again lebron COULD but each passing year makes it more doubtful and who knows if he even catches Kobe or Magic let alone MJ ...

[Killakobe81]

jordan never took a 40pt beating in a finals game where his team needed him

Yep that is why MJ is > Kobe .... but why post this no one in here (lately) disputes that ...why don't you ADD something?

this is actually a good discussion.

Everyone agrees that MJ is better ...even his son! LOL

[TheMACHINE]

its ok not be as good as Jordan. nothing wrong with that. Marcus Jordan is going to be the next Michael Jordan!