Only Kobe could manage to win a Championship while having his legacy take a hit

[baseline bum]

So now we add qualifiers? Jordan also took 18 months off from basketball and didn't have the wear and tear Kobe had for these playoffs, let alone the finger and knee injuries Kobe is suffering from.

While I do defend Kobe a lot, I'm not going to simply stroke him off. Kobe shot horribly from the field last night. If the Finals MVP was based on game 7 and game 7 only, I wouldn't have given it to Kobe, despite the fact he actually played a pretty good game other than shooting. I'd probably give it to Artest. Artest made the most positive impact on the game last night for the Lakers.

But, what I challenge are Kobe haters who hate on Kobe for no other reason but simply to hate on Kobe. Kobe was by and far the biggest reason the Lakers were even in position to play in a game 7 after what happened in games 4 and 5 in Boston. And his overall Finals series as well as playoffs this year was incredible, game 7 aside.

Calling Kobe's Finals incredible is a bit much. Kobe's WCF were incredible. Kobe's Finals were a lot of him taking horrible shots like it was 2005 all over again. The Lakers won this series by manning up and playing outstanding defense, not with the scorching hot offense than ran all over the western conference in earlier rounds.

[Giuseppe]

Calling Kobe's Finals incredible is a bit much. Kobe's WCF were incredible. Kobe's Finals were a lot of him taking horrible shots like it was 2005 all over again. The Lakers won this series by manning up and playing outstanding defense, not with the scorching hot offense than ran all over the western conference in earlier rounds.

Isn't Base just precious since his Award?

[024]

it's pretty sad gasol is getting no credit. after kobe welted under the pressure and the lakers needed someone to step up, gasol did it. i expected a shootout between pierce and kobe. instead, it was gasol against the corpses of ray allen and paul pierce.

[RsxPiimp]

Well of course. But to say he played great defense, is a farce he didn't play defense at all.

Kobe had 15 rebounds. To say he didnt play defense is a farce.

[RsxPiimp]

Calling Kobe's Finals incredible is a bit much. Kobe's WCF were incredible. Kobe's Finals were a lot of him taking horrible shots like it was 2005 all over again. The Lakers won this series by manning up and playing outstanding defense, not with the scorching hot offense than ran all over the western conference in earlier rounds.

Kobe had 2 bad games.


28.6/ 8 Rpg /4 Apg/ 2 Spg is incredible in this series standards. You can make your case for Gasol, but no other player had a better series than Kobe.

[JamStone]

Calling Kobe's Finals incredible is a bit much. Kobe's WCF were incredible. Kobe's Finals were a lot of him taking horrible shots like it was 2005 all over again. The Lakers won this series by manning up and playing outstanding defense, not with the scorching hot offense than ran all over the western conference in earlier rounds.

Kobe averaged 28 points per game in a series where both teams scored less than 91 points per game and where not one other player on either team even averaged 20 ppg. Not one other player on either team. And Kobe averaged 28 points.

Where both teams combined shot 42.9% (minus Kobe's FG/FGA) from the field, Kobe shot just as well as the rest of the players. Aside from the shooting debacle of game 7, Kobe shot 43.2% from the field. Still quite low, but better than the rest of the players combined on the court for the entire series. His poor shooting is noted. In the defensive struggle of the series, it was pretty much par for the course.

So, yes, his Finals performance was highlighted by a dreadful game 7 shooting night. He also averaged 8 rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 steals for the series. He was the second leading rebounder of the series after Pau. He held Rondo to 3 points fewer, 2.4 fewer assists, and a slightly worse shooting percentage than his playoff averages. It's not Kobe's fault that Rondo couldn't shoot. Kobe took advantage of that, played off him, and it allowed Kobe to rebound and play passing lanes and help on others on defense. That's just good strategy.

Kobe had an incredible Finals, which some choose to mar by his game 7 shooting performance. Like I said, aside from game 7, his Finals and overall playoff performance was incredible. People are choosing to look only at Kobe's shooting to discredit him.

[Killakobe81]

Kobe averaged 28 points per game in a series where both teams scored less than 91 points per game and where not one other player on either team even averaged 20 ppg. Not one other player on either team. And Kobe averaged 28 points.

Where both teams combined shot 42.9% (minus Kobe's FG/FGA) from the field, Kobe shot just as well as the rest of the players. Aside from the shooting debacle of game 7, Kobe shot 43.2% from the field. Still quite low, but better than the rest of the players combined on the court for the entire series. His poor shooting is noted. In the defensive struggle of the series, it was pretty much par for the course.

So, yes, his Finals performance was highlighted by a dreadful game 7 shooting night. He also averaged 8 rebounds, 4 assists, and 2 steals for the series. He was the second leading rebounder of the series after Pau. He held Rondo to 3 points fewer, 2.4 fewer assists, and a slightly worse shooting percentage than his playoff averages. It's not Kobe's fault that Rondo couldn't shoot. Kobe took advantage of that, played off him, and it allowed Kobe to rebound and play passing lanes and help on others on defense. That's just good strategy.

Kobe had an incredible Finals, which some choose to mar by his game 7 shooting performance. Like I said, aside from game 7, his Finals and overall playoff performance was incredible. People are choosing to look only at Kobe's shooting to discredit him.

Great post Jamstone.

Jamstone has been on fire all day.

He rakes Kobe when he should (like for last night) and defends him when the haters go over the top ...i respect that.

You can not (if being honest) call him a Kobe fanboi ...

[HarlemHeat37]

I respect JamStone as a poster, I voted for him for All-Spurs Talk, but it annoys me how he calls us out(haters), usually using extreme hyperbole, but he pretty much does the same thing himself from a pro-Kobe side..

Kobe routinely shoots below his team's %, this isn't a new trend, it has happened during many regular seasons and playoffs..he shot 40.4% for the series, you can't just ignore game 7, that's pretty bad for a guy that receives so much hype TBH..Kobe's efficiency is usually below other guys of his caliber..

Kobe was the best player during the Finals, but saying his performance was incredible is insulting IMO..it's even insulting to Kobe IMO, considering he's better than that..

Kobe struggled with his shooting against the elite and good/great defensive teams he went up against(OKC, Boston), and dominated the below average(Utah w/o Kirilenko) and horrible(Phoenix) defensive teams..

He deserved the Finals MVP and he deserves to be credited as the #1 player for LA's run this year(with Pau as the 1a), but he didn't have an "incredible" run by any means, no matter how much you say it..he had amazing series' vs. Utah and Phoenix, especially Phoenix, it was one of the best series' I've ever seen from a player..but overall, I wouldn't call his playoffs "incredible", it's a stretch..

It's laughable how much hypocrisy is involved when it comes to Kobe though, it amazes me..

-Why is Kobe getting so much credit for rebounding?..I"ll give him credit, , it's impressive..but why did NOBODY talk about Lebron's rebounding vs. Boston?..all they talked about was how he didn't play well and how the Cavs lost, they ignore his amazing rebounding?..

-Defense?..one guy was sagging of Rondo all series, while Lebron completely shut down Paul Pierce for their entire series..however, this was completely ignored, while Kobe gets some love for his defense..

The hypocrisy involved when it comes to Kobe is amazing TBH..they completely ignored all the positive Lebron did, focused on his struggles in game 6, they said Kobe was better due to killer instinct and a post up game, but they all twist it around when Kobe was even worse vs. Boston..the difference was clearly in their teammates..

As for Jordan, MJ has had some bad playoff series' too, he's even had some bad Finals(for his standards)..some people tend to overrate Jordan as some kind of mythical figure..Kobe in his prime is actually comparable to past his prime Jordan(2nd threepeat)..the problem is that Kobe has never had a dominant NBA Finals, he's never been a big performer in close-out playoff games, and he simply doesn't match up with other greats when you're comparing their performances in the Finals..he certainly matches up with them as an overall player, but he's still lacking in the Finals..

[JamStone]

I'm not ignoring game 7 but I put the rest of the Finals series in perspective for Kobe. You don't take away his game 7 shooting. That's an obvious and absolutely legitimate criticism. But once again, look at the shooting by both clubs in the series. Take away Kobe's field goals and field goals attempted and the shooting for the series is still under 43% by both teams combined. KG had a good shooting series. Odom and Gasol were pretty good. But Kobe is what he is. He's a volume scorer. He'll take a lot of shots and he's going to miss his share. He's not about efficiency. He's about the end result, winning. I say it's fair to criticize him for that. But as a fan, I don't care if a player shoots 75% from the field or 25% from the field as long as the team wins.

And what gets me is how Kobe "haters" (call it whatever you like) or his critics spin the game to discredit no matter what happens. You know it's easy to bash Kobe for his shooting last night. But most "critics" ignore the fact that Kobe actually stopped shooting last night because he knew he wasn't shoot good enough. He took 14 shots in the first half. He ended with shooting 24 shots for the night. He only took 4 shots in the fourth quarter and one of them was a shock clock winding down three pointer. He stopped taking those forced jumpers. I'm sure everyone in the world expected him to take like 12-15 FGA in that fourth quarter, fanbois and haters alike. But you know what, there isn't a soul who will give him credit for actually being more judicious with his shot selection late in a close game where everything was on the line and where he was shooting so poorly. That goes unnoticed because of the bottomline boxscore. Kobe is the only superstar player in any major sport who will catch heat no matter what he does. Passes the ball and doesn't take a lot of shots, and he's quitting on his team and can't take over. Try and save his team by taking over and he's selfish. He catches heat no matter what. That's what gets me.

I give factual support to show that it goes beyond the shooting, critics still want to discredit it. They fall back on well he's always sucked in the Finals. Or he's still not better than Jordan. It's a never ending string of hate just because they hate him as a person, hate the Lakers, or hate the Laker fans or Kobe fans. Whatever. There are an extremely few number of non Laker fans that actually give Kobe the appropriate credit.

ESPN. those Mark Jackson and Jalen Rose Kobe knobslobbers. I'm just talking fans. Yeah, the media gets on Kobe's nuts. not as much as LeBron or Brett Favre, but there's enough in the media. But regular fans, if they aren't a fan of Kobe or the Lakers, the hate goes to extreme. That's what I see. And that's probably a big reason I'm always defending the cat so much. Truth be told, I think Kobe Bryant is a ing prick of a person. I think he's probably a horrible husband and an apathetic father. I think he's been a horrible teammate for much of his career and I think his ego is as bad as any pro athlete out there now. But, I'm a fan of Kobe Bryant the player. I think he's been one of the best players in the history of the game. I think his talent is as much a product of his worth ethic and personal desire and determination as it is his natural God given talent. And that's why I'm a fan of his, as a player. Kobe the person can go himself. Kobe the player is amazing. I'll buy a ticket to watch him play any day. Yeah, I'm a Kobe apologist, and I'm personally probably a product of the Kobe "haters."

[TampaDude]

I'm not ignoring game 7 but I put the rest of the Finals series in perspective for Kobe. You don't take away his game 7 shooting. That's an obvious and absolutely legitimate criticism. But once again, look at the shooting by both clubs in the series. Take away Kobe's field goals and field goals attempted and the shooting for the series is still under 43% by both teams combined. KG had a good shooting series. Odom and Gasol were pretty good. But Kobe is what he is. He's a volume scorer. He'll take a lot of shots and he's going to miss his share. He's not about efficiency. He's about the end result, winning. I say it's fair to criticize him for that. But as a fan, I don't care if a player shoots 75% from the field or 25% from the field as long as the team wins.

And what gets me is how Kobe "haters" (call it whatever you like) or his critics spin the game to discredit no matter what happens. You know it's easy to bash Kobe for his shooting last night. But most "critics" ignore the fact that Kobe actually stopped shooting last night because he knew he wasn't shoot good enough. He took 14 shots in the first half. He ended with shooting 24 shots for the night. He only took 4 shots in the fourth quarter and one of them was a shock clock winding down three pointer. He stopped taking those forced jumpers. I'm sure everyone in the world expected him to take like 12-15 FGA in that fourth quarter, fanbois and haters alike. But you know what, there isn't a soul who will give him credit for actually being more judicious with his shot selection late in a close game where everything was on the line and where he was shooting so poorly. That goes unnoticed because of the bottomline boxscore. Kobe is the only superstar player in any major sport who will catch heat no matter what he does. Passes the ball and doesn't take a lot of shots, and he's quitting on his team and can't take over. Try and save his team by taking over and he's selfish. He catches heat no matter what. That's what gets me.

I give factual support to show that it goes beyond the shooting, critics still want to discredit it. They fall back on well he's always sucked in the Finals. Or he's still not better than Jordan. It's a never ending string of hate just because they hate him as a person, hate the Lakers, or hate the Laker fans or Kobe fans. Whatever. There are an extremely few number of non Laker fans that actually give Kobe the appropriate credit.

ESPN. those Mark Jackson and Jalen Rose Kobe knobslobbers. I'm just talking fans. Yeah, the media gets on Kobe's nuts. not as much as LeBron or Brett Favre, but there's enough in the media. But regular fans, if they aren't a fan of Kobe or the Lakers, the hate goes to extreme. That's what I see. And that's probably a big reason I'm always defending the cat so much. Truth be told, I think Kobe Bryant is a ing prick of a person. I think he's probably a horrible husband and an apathetic father. I think he's been a horrible teammate for much of his career and I think his ego is as bad as any pro athlete out there now. But, I'm a fan of Kobe Bryant the player. I think he's been one of the best players in the history of the game. I think his talent is as much a product of his worth ethic and personal desire and determination as it is his natural God given talent. And that's why I'm a fan of his, as a player. Kobe the person can go himself. Kobe the player is amazing. I'll buy a ticket to watch him play any day. Yeah, I'm a Kobe apologist, and I'm personally probably a product of the Kobe "haters."

Can I get an AMEN???

[Amuseddaysleeper]

For the record, I don't consider myself a Kobe hater at all. He's one of my favorite non Spur players in the league, which is odd, considering the Laker are up there with the Mavs as my most hated team.

All I'm saying, is that Kobe more often than not, has been pretty poor in the NBA Finals in general. His shooting % in elimination games really says it all, and while Boston's entire M.O. was to force anyone but Kobe to beat them, it's hard not to be a little bit miffed at his Game 7 performance.

It'll be interesting to see how he holds up next year.

[mystargtr34]

I have never seen Kobe fans put so much emphasis on aspects of basketball other than scoring . All of a sudden, rebounding is important, but when you compare him to LeBron, rebounding doesnt matter because Kobe's a 2-guard, assists dont matter because Kobe plays in an equal opportunity triangle offense .

Dude shot 6-24 in a Finals Game 7. That s gonna stick.

[j.dizzle]

LOL legacy talk, i'll remember that when im wasted at the parade on Monday lmao

[Chieflion]

LOL legacy talk, i'll remember that when im wasted at the parade on Monday lmao

Ok cool, so one question.



Where were you during the 2010 NBA finals?

[j.dizzle]

Ok cool, so one question.



Where were you during the 2010 NBA finals?

On vacation with ur girl.

[Chieflion]

On vacation with ur girl.

LOL bandwagon Lakers fan.

[JamStone]

I have never seen Kobe fans put so much emphasis on aspects of basketball other than scoring . All of a sudden, rebounding is important, but when you compare him to LeBron, rebounding doesnt matter because Kobe's a 2-guard, assists dont matter because Kobe plays in an equal opportunity triangle offense .

Dude shot 6-24 in a Finals Game 7. That s gonna stick.

Scoring is not the same as shooting. Kobe had a game high 23 points last night. He scored.

Never said to disregard Kobe's poor shooting. But a knock on him has always been if he doesn't score, he doesn't help his team in any other way. Last night, he wasn't scoring efficiently, but he went and pulled down 15 rebounds. This is something he has been criticized for in the past for not doing enough of other things. It's not that rebounding and assists aren't important. They've always been important. But there are explanations why a player like Kobe won't put up the same type of rebounds and assists as a guy like LeBron. Not excuses. Reasons.

Does game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals stick with Jordan? Should he give his 1996 Finals MVP to Dennis Rodman or Luc Longley?

[j.dizzle]

LOL bandwagon Lakers fan.

butthurt

[Giuseppe]

Kobe's booty hole finally started to dilate.

[JamStone]

but it is pretty funny that Laker fans are defending his ty shooting by saying "but he rebounded!"

Dirk shot the ball like ass against Golden State but rebounded his ass off every game. Does that mean he didn't choke?

Fair point, but...

Kobe's team won.

Dirk's team lost.

[Chieflion]

butthurt

Why am I butthurt? You avoided my question, gave an answer like namlook's crappy momma jokes, works only 10 years ago on the internet, only because you didn't dare to show up in the playoffs.

Let me ask again. Where were you during the 2010 NBA finals?

[JamStone]

So Pau Gasol > Josh Howard suddenly means Dirk is a choker and Kobe isn't?

Not at all. It means if the Lakers lose, Kobe's 6-for-24 really does go down in infamy as a choke. His team winning avoids that just like game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals is not considered a choke by the GOAT. Winning changes things. Kobe choked shooting the ball last night. He felt the pressure. Both he and Phil admitted he was trying to hard, pressing. But it likely won't go down in history that way. The loss to #8 Golden State stays on Dirk because they lost. Fair or not, that's how I personally think it is.

[Booharv]

Game 6 of the 1996 NBA Finals. I'm going to keep posting that until some of you numbskulls actually look it up.

Luc Longley and Dennis Rodman would like a re-vote on the 1996 NBA Finals MVP.

Dude, I know you hate Jordan but you sound seriously re ed when you suggest that Luc Longley was more valuable in the 1996 NBA Finals than Michael Jordan.

Seriously re ed.

[j.dizzle]

Why am I butthurt? You avoided my question, gave an answer like namlook's crappy momma jokes, works only 10 years ago on the internet, only because you didn't dare to show up in the playoffs.

Let me ask again. Where were you during the 2010 NBA finals?

Cancun brotha. LOL at you acting all serious on an internet forum

[JamStone]

Dude, I know you hate Jordan but you sound seriously re ed when you suggest that Luc Longley was more valuable in the 1996 NBA Finals than Michael Jordan.

Seriously re ed.

If you don't understand that it's not-so-serious response to people arguing Ron Artest deserved the MVP for the Finals, then I don't know what to tell you.