Only Kobe could manage to win a Championship while having his legacy take a hit

[Ashy Larry]

Larry Bird lost to Magic twice but his legacy isn't tarnished.

[MiamiHeat]

LOL Jamstone once again. Time to set him straight, once again.

1) Game 6, 1996 NBA Finals was NOT an elimination game for the Bulls. Chicago was up 3-2 going into Game 6, which means it was an elimination game for the Sonics, NOT THE BULLS. Chicago was only looking to close out the series, but MJ was in no danger of being eliminated that night.

COMPLETELY different scenario than a Game 7, win or go home for Kobe.

So JamStone = WRONG, strike 1

2) Jordan was guarded all series by Defensive Player of the Year, Gary Payton. Yeah, 1996 is the year Gary won DPOY.

FACT = Gary Payton is the ONLY POINT GUARD IN NBA HISTORY TO WIN DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR. He is a future Hall of Famer as soon as he is eligible.

Payton also has 9 All-NBA Defensive teams. Gary Payton is among the best defensive players that have EVER PLAYED IN THE NBA, period. He is a Hall of Famer

Who was guarding Kobe Bryant?

Ray Allen, and Tony Allen. Neither player has won a DPOY, or even a SINGLE appearance on an All-Defensive team. Neither player has EVER won a single defensive recognition.

JamStone = wrong again, strike 2

I will save strike 3 for later.

[Chieflion]

Cancun brotha. LOL at you acting all serious on an internet forum

Thanks for replying.



LOL Bandwagon Lakers fan.

[Booharv]

If you don't understand that it's not-so-serious response to people arguing Ron Artest deserved the MVP for the Finals, then I don't know what to tell you.

My bad, I don't spend enough time here to get all of the in jokes.

[MiamiHeat]

This is definitely going down as the WORST Finals MVP presentation in the history of the NBA.

but again, the NBA Is a show.

Kobe Bryant is the comic book "Leader" of his Laker team, and so he gets credit by default.

[j.dizzle]

Thanks for replying.



LOL Bandwagon Lakers fan.

LOL at thinking that sitting on a basketball forum all day makes you a real fan. Some of us actually do

[JamStone]

LOL Jamstone once again. Time to set him straight, once again.

1) Game 6, 1996 NBA Finals was NOT an elimination game for the Bulls. Chicago was up 3-2 going into Game 6, which means it was an elimination game for the Sonics, NOT THE BULLS. Chicago was only looking to close out the series, but MJ was in no danger of being eliminated that night.

COMPLETELY different scenario than a Game 7, win or go home for Kobe.

So JamStone = WRONG, strike 1

2) Jordan was guarded all series by Defensive Player of the Year, Gary Payton. Yeah, 1996 is the year Gary won DPOY.

FACT = Gary Payton is the ONLY POINT GUARD IN NBA HISTORY TO WIN DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR. He is a future Hall of Famer as soon as he is eligible.

Payton also has 9 All-NBA Defensive teams. Gary Payton is among the best defensive players that have EVER PLAYED IN THE NBA, period. He is a Hall of Famer

Who was guarding Kobe Bryant?

Ray Allen, and Tony Allen. Neither player has won a DPOY, or even a SINGLE appearance on an All-Defensive team. Neither player has EVER won a single defensive recognition.

JamStone = wrong again, strike 2

I will save strike 3 for later.

When have I ever said that it was an elimination game for Chicago. I didn't. How was anything I wrote wrong?

Ray Allen and Tony Allen did a pretty good job at defending Kobe, but it was the Celtics team defense as a whole that made it so tough for Kobe. You know, that Celtics team that despite all their problems this season had a top 5 team defensive rating.

Also, 1996 wasn't the only poor shooting Finals Jordan had. He shot under 43% in the 1998 Finals, being guarded by Hornacek, Bryon Russell, and Shandon Anderson. None of them DPOY. None of them ever on an all NBA defensive team. That Utah team was ranked 17th out of 29 teams that year in team defensive rating. Not that great a defensive team. Not horrible, but not great.

What was Michael's excuse for that series? He took 35 shots in game 6 of that series. That's even with taking 15 free throws. Do you know how much Kobe would get killed for taking 35 shots in a game, especially if he's not shooting anywhere close to 50%?



You're trying too hard.

And it didn't work.

[Chieflion]

LOL at thinking that sitting on a basketball forum all day makes you a real fan. Some of us actually do

Maybe if you show up once in the middle of the NBA finals, maybe I would believe you, bandwagon Laker fan.

[j.dizzle]

Crucify em Jam, crucify em!!! hahahaha damn this dude straight tearing assholes today with his replies.

[cobbler]

This is definitely going down as the WORST Finals MVP presentation in the history of the NBA.

but again, the NBA Is a show.

Kobe Bryant is the comic book "Leader" of his Laker team, and so he gets credit by default.

That it's tearing your heart out... is pure icing!!!!!

[MiamiHeat]

When have I ever said that it was an elimination game for Chicago. I didn't. How was anything I wrote wrong?

backtracking faster than a pickup truck

You brought it up as a comparison to Kobe's game 7.

No comparison to be made, since both are completely different situations.

Fail

Ray Allen and Tony Allen did a pretty good job at defending Kobe, but it was the Celtics team defense as a whole that made it so tough for Kobe. You know, that Celtics team that despite all their problems this season had a top 5 team defensive rating.

2010 Boston Celtics defensive rating = 5th

1996 Seattle SuperSonics defensive rating = 2nd

Also, 1996 wasn't the only poor shooting Finals Jordan had. He shot under 43% in the 1998 Finals, being guarded by Hornacek, Bryon Russell, and Shandon Anderson. None of them DPOY. None of them ever on an all NBA defensive team. That Utah team was ranked 17th out of 29 teams that year in team defensive rating. Not that great a defensive team. Not horrible, but not great.

Grasping at straws now

MJ was 35 years old in 1998. Ancient by NBA Standards.

They were seen as an old, tired team way past their prime.

Didn't matter. A 35 year old MJ still got #6.

[MiamiHeat]

What was Michael's excuse for that series?

You mean the 1998 NBA Finals, in which MJ's legendary "Final shot" sequence? The one where he singlehandedly won the series in Utah? Scored, stole the ball from Karl Malone, then scored again to win the game with 5 seconds left?

Yeaaaaaah.

Strike 3 Jamstone, you're out. Your laker sucking is reaching levels of idiocy.

You are DESPERATELY trying to defend the undefendable, and doing it in a hilarious way.

[JamStone]

backtracking faster than a pickup truck

You brought it up as a comparison to Kobe's game 7.

No comparison to be made, since both are completely different situations.

Fail

How can I backtrack from something I never said? I was comparing shooting performances in the championship clinching game. You shouldn't accuse someone of grasping for straws when it's exactly what you're doing.

2010 Boston Celtics defensive rating = 5th

1996 Seattle SuperSonics defensive rating = 2nd

Right. Both great team defenses. Hence, both Kobe AND Michael shot the ball poorly in each respective Finals series.

Grasping at straws now

MJ was 35 years old in 1998. Ancient by NBA Standards.

They were seen as an old, tired team way past their prime.

Didn't matter. A 35 year old MJ still got #6.

I expected you to make the age argument. I'm glad you made the age argument.

Kobe critics love to shout out how Kobe is in his decline because it's not just about his age, but his "NBA years." Kobe is in his 14th NBA season. In 1998, Jordan was in his 13th NBA season, since he decided to take an 18 month hiatus (for whatever reason). Jordan actually had much less wear and tear on his body in 1998 than Kobe did this past post season.

Haven't you yourself claimed Kobe is old and past his prime? I don't know. I'm asking. Have you?

Not surprised you actually avoided my question by just throwing out the age argument.

And your last sentence is poignant.

Your criticisms of Kobe doesn't matter. He still just got #5.



Out of curiosity, who do you think should have been Finals MVP?

And I do have follow-up questions after you answer.

[MiamiHeat]

How can I backtrack from something I never said? I was comparing shooting performances in the championship clinching game. You shouldn't accuse someone of grasping for straws when it's exactly what you're doing.

Except THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD is that Kobe, in an elimination game for the Lakers, win or go home, SUCKED.

Michael was not in danger of being eliminated Game 6, 1996 Finals.

Right. Both great team defenses. Hence, both Kobe AND Michael shot the ball poorly in each respective Finals series.

Except now we are back to my initial point.

I said Gary Payton, hall of famer, 1996 DPOY, 9 time All-Defensive team, only PG in NBA History to win DPOY, was guarding MJ.

Kobe had Ray Allen and Tony Allen guarding him, neither has won a single defensive award in their NBA career.

Your rebuttal was "but the celtics had a great team D"

Sonics had better team D. So MJ was up against a better team D, and a Hall of Famer guarding him.

shooting yourself in the foot, jamstone

Out of curiosity, who do you think should have been Finals MVP?

It doesn't matter who I think should have been Finals MVP.

The PREMISE OF THIS THREAD IS

"Only Kobe could win a ring and still having his legacy take a hit"


Give up, you are embarrassing yourself.

[MiamiHeat]

Let this thread be a witness to all

Jamstone will sometimes say anything to defend the Lakers, no matter how stupid.

and let it also record

that he got his ass handed to him AGAIN, by MiamiHeat.

Thank you

[baseline bum]

What was Michael's excuse for that series? He took 35 shots in game 6 of that series. That's even with taking 15 free throws. Do you know how much Kobe would get killed for taking 35 shots in a game, especially if he's not shooting anywhere close to 50%?

You compare Artest to Longley, then you're ambiguous about counting game 7 when discussing Kobe's horrendous shooting, and now you want to make the ridiculous assertion that we'd about Kobe shooting 35 times in a game where he was the only decent offensive option in crunch time? Did you forget Scottie Pippen could hardly walk that game? I mean, if Gasol gets injured the first play of the game and can barely stand up straight, another of Kobe's teammates playing most of the game is Dennis Rodman with his 5 foot range on his shot, and Bynum turns into Luc Longley, I don't think anyone is going to complain about Kobe taking 35 shots. Kukoc was the only other player on that team who could be counted on for any decent level of scoring. Nevermind Jordan blowing by Russell for the layup, then stealing the ball from Malone, and then hitting the gamewinner to drag the Bulls from down 3 in the final 41 seconds of what was effectively a road elimination game for the Bulls with Pippen looking like he did.

[cobbler]

Except THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD is that Kobe, in an elimination game for the Lakers, win or go home, SUCKED.

You are making up now.

BTW, When are you going to sign in with your other account and pay up?

[MiamiHeat]

You are making up now.

BTW, When are you going to sign in with your other account and pay up?

Ok, go PM KoriEllis right now.

Ask her if MiamiHeat lives anywhere near ChrisRichards or if they are the same poster.

Once you are done, slap yourself in the face a few times for being the dumbest poster on this board.

Just remember, even though we know you are mentally disabled and in a wheelchair, I was making fun of you for being stupid way before you told us

[MiamiHeat]

You compare Artest to Longley, then you're ambiguous about counting game 7 when discussing Kobe's horrendous shooting, and now you want to make the ridiculous assertion that we'd about Kobe shooting 35 times in a game where he was the only decent offensive option in crunch time? Did you forget Scottie Pippen could hardly walk that game? I mean, if Gasol gets injured the first play of the game and can barely stand up straight, another of Kobe's teammates playing most of the game is Dennis Rodman with his 5 foot range on his shot, and Bynum turns into Luc Longley, I don't think anyone is going to complain about Kobe taking 35 shots. Kukoc was the only other player on that team who could be counted on for any decent level of scoring. Nevermind Jordan blowing by Russell for the layup, then stealing the ball from Malone, and then hitting the gamewinner to drag the Bulls from down 3 in the final 41 seconds of what was effectively a road elimination game for the Bulls with Pippen looking like he did.

[JamStone]

Except THE PREMISE OF THIS THREAD is that Kobe, in an elimination game for the Lakers, win or go home, SUCKED.

Michael was not in danger of being eliminated Game 6, 1996 Finals.

Except that the OP and original post said nothing of "elimination" game.

It's not your thread. It wasn't the premise of the thread.

How did you determine that it was the premise of the thread?

Pathetic performance by him last night.

I was always a huge supporter of Kobe despite my hate for the Lakers, but if it wasn't for the all biased reffing in the fourth quarter last night, everyone would be talking about Kobe being one of the biggest Finals chokers of all time.

What a joke

Except now we are back to my initial point.

I said Gary Payton, hall of famer, 1996 DPOY, 9 time All-Defensive team, only PG in NBA History to win DPOY, was guarding MJ.

Kobe had Ray Allen and Tony Allen guarding him, neither has won a single defensive award in their NBA career.

Your rebuttal was "but the celtics had a great team D"

Sonics had better team D. So MJ was up against a better team D, and a Hall of Famer guarding him.

shooting yourself in the foot, jamstone

Yes, and Michael struggled shooting the ball against the Sonics.

You're not even making a point.

My rebuttal was in response to you suggesting Ray Allen and Tony Allen aren't great defenders. But Boston played great team defense. To deny that is silly.

You only would have a legitimate argument if Michael going up against a great defense shot the ball great. He didn't. He shot horribly from the field as well.

Slap yourself awake. It's beyond me now.

It doesn't matter who I think should have been Finals MVP.

The PREMISE OF THIS THREAD IS

"Only Kobe could win a ring and still having his legacy take a hit"


Give up, you are embarrassing yourself.

Now you're changing the premise of this thread again?

Me bringing up Jordan's 1996 NBA Finals is to show that a poor shooting performance does not necessarily tarnish a legacy. Kobe was horrible last night shooting the ball. I don't deny it. I don't excuse it. But, what will be remembered is that the Lakers won the le and Kobe won Finals MVP. So many people on here didn't even know Jordan had poor shooting performances in the NBA Finals. People won't remember how bad Kobe shot the ball last night 10 years from now. They'll know he was the best player on a championship team.

BTW, raising your hand in victory like a boxer with a bloody face doesn't mean you win the match. Stop over-glorifying yourself. We have a different interpretation of who's embarrassing himself.

But I still do want to know who you think should have been the Finals MVP of this past 2010 NBA Finals.

[baseline bum]

Just remember, even though we know you are mentally disabled and in a wheelchair, I was making fun of you for being stupid way before you told us

That's ed up.

[MiamiHeat]

People won't remember how bad Kobe shot the ball last night 10 years from now. They'll know he was the best player on a championship team

Kobe's game 7 choke job will be remembered every single time someone talks about his legacy.

In a pressure situation where he had to carry his team, he stunk so bad you can smell it from the moon.

and his team had to bail him out, testament to a stacked Lakers team full of talent and not kobe's greatness.

[cobbler]

Ok, go PM KoriEllis right now.

Ask her if MiamiHeat lives anywhere near ChrisRichards or if they are the same poster.

Once you are done, slap yourself in the face a few times for being the dumbest poster on this board.

Just remember, even though we know you are mentally disabled and in a wheelchair, I was making fun of you for being stupid way before you told us

And yet everything I have predicted while you were calling me stupid has indeed come to pass and your bandwagons have folded quicker than a house of cards. Go figure...

And now you resort to pulling the disabled card? Stay classy Miami!!!

[cobbler]

That's ed up.

Class act Miami is....

[JamStone]

You compare Artest to Longley, then you're ambiguous about counting game 7 when discussing Kobe's horrendous shooting, and now you want to make the ridiculous assertion that we'd about Kobe shooting 35 times in a game where he was the only decent offensive option in crunch time? Did you forget Scottie Pippen could hardly walk that game? I mean, if Gasol gets injured the first play of the game and can barely stand up straight, another of Kobe's teammates playing most of the game is Dennis Rodman with his 5 foot range on his shot, and Bynum turns into Luc Longley, I don't think anyone is going to complain about Kobe taking 35 shots. Kukoc was the only other player on that team who could be counted on for any decent level of scoring. Nevermind Jordan blowing by Russell for the layup, then stealing the ball from Malone, and then hitting the gamewinner to drag the Bulls from down 3 in the final 41 seconds of what was effectively a road elimination game for the Bulls with Pippen looking like he did.

My post was to suggest it would be as ridiculous to suggest Artest deserved the Finals MVP as much as it would have been to suggest Longley deserved it in 1996. Either is ridiculous. To which varying degree, that wasn't my point.

Jordan was a chucker during the second Bulls three-peat, pure and simple. I've said this in another post. Kobe catches heat no matter what. You could give the same type of scenario that Jordan had in 1998, and there would still be Kobe critics if Kobe shot 35 times.

BTW, Steve Kerr played 24 minutes that game and took zero shot attempts. You know, that guy with the best three point shooting percentage in NBA history. Ron Harper made 3 of 4 field goals that game. Why not give him a couple more FGAs? Kukoc should have gotten more touches. If Jordan actually shared the ball that game, they wouldn't have needed the late game heroics just to win by 1...

You see what I did right there? That was just dumb rhetoric I argued. Exactly how Kobe critics would have criticized Kobe if he took 35 shots in a Finals game no matter what the cir stances are. Don't kid yourself in suggesting they wouldn't.

But hey, I'm just a Jordan hater.

Jordan won the game and the le in 1998. He deserved the NBA Finals MVP. And he's the greatest player of all time. Me bringing up Jordan in this thread is not to discredit him, but to show why I feel discrediting Kobe is itself dumb, imo.