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Directed more so to non-Laker and non-Spurs fans for obvious reasons, but everyone can chime in.
Whos had the better career?
Directed more so to non-Laker and non-Spurs fans for obvious reasons, but everyone can chime in.
Both careers not over...but it's not looking good for TD at this point.
kobe's had a higher peak of accomplishment, while duncan consistently brought it every year.
I think you can argue for either.
Duncan's 3 finals mvp+4 les as number 1 guy are very impressive, just as his all-NBA teams. Great defender for most of his career(discounting the last couple of years, maybe), I think he really deserved at least 1 DPOY.
That being said, Kobe seems to have a couple of mvp caliber years left in him, while duncan is pretty much winding down. That gives kobe some time to build on his legacy.
This...I actually agree with you for once.
basketball is ruled by the giants, big men win championships, wing players cant do without bigmen, replace kobe with wade and you have the same les in 09 and 10, replace duncan with the second best pf in the league of each year and the 4 rings aren't guaranteed.
Right now, if both retired today, I'd say Duncan. It's close. Careers comparably outstanding. Kobe has more les and he was able to lead his team to repeat. I think that's an impressive feat. Duncan trumps in League MVPs, Finals MVPs, and he has a DPOY.
I think Kobe can surpass Duncan over the next few upcoming seasons, but right now I'll say Duncan.
Duncan doesn't have a DPOY and it's a crime. He deserved at least one.
Duncan doesn't have a DPOY.
shhhh.. let them think he does
A better individual career? Duncan easily. More les as the #1 option, more Finals MVPs, more regular seasons MVPs, more all-NBA team selections, more impact on both sides of the floor.
Now team success? Bryant easily. He's had the GOAT coach and the most dominant player ever to help bolster his resume, and now has a stacked team to continue to do so. He's a great player, but he doesn't impact the game as much as Duncan.
you Kobe nut suckers.
It's pure conjecture, but I'm not 100% the Lakers win both les if you replace Kobe with Wade. I think they're still in the hunt and have a good chance. I'm not completely sure they still win it. But I might go along with it.
If you replace Tim Duncan with Kevin Garnett, I think the Spurs have a very good chance at winning all of those championships they won, except for 2003. Not guaranteed but I think there's a very good chance they win 2-3 of them.
I don't think either is guaranteed if you replace Kobe or Timmy.
Oops. Brainfart.
Kobe is a rapist and should be in prison.
I really wanna know why Kobe is the only superstar player that gets this criticism. Does Magic really only have 3 championships? Bird only 2?
Kobe was "1B" for at least two of the first Shaq-Kobe three-peat.
That argument just stinks of hate.
i agree the spurs would win a le or two but i dont think they would win all 4, as for the wade thing i am completely convinced after 2006 that wade could do the same as kobe if he was motivated and had the same pieces, he did do it in 2006 when he had one of kobe's old pieces.
Garnett ain't winning those les as the No. 1 option. Just ain't happenin'; and he sure as isn't going to be the wrecking ball in the paint to put the whole Pistons front line into foul trouble, much less on two bad wheels. This is almost similar to the Kobe-MJ debate ... in that the unquantifiable proves immeasurable.
This +100000
Because it's not like he's playing with a decent big man, he played with arguably the greatest player ever in his prime. Duncan never played with anyone in his championship years anywhere NEAR that good. It's like a 10 year old getting help on a paper from his dad. Yeah, the kid got the A, but we know the dad was behind it.
I don't care if my analogy sucks.
Awards and Honors.
Tim Duncan
1997-98 NBA Rookie of the Year
1998-99 NBA Finals MVP
1999-00 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2001-02 NBA MVP
2002-03 NBA Finals MVP
2002-03 NBA MVP
2004-05 NBA Finals MVP
1997-98 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1997-98 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1998-99 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2004-05 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
Kobe Bryant
2001-02 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2006-07 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2007-08 NBA MVP
2008-09 NBA All-Star Game MVP
2008-09 NBA Finals MVP
2009-10 NBA Finals MVP
1996-97 NBA All-Rookie (2nd)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA 3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
And Kobe being on the all-defensive team first team every year is a ING JOKE.
Since Kobe's having surgery this summer and already piled on even more miles especially after a grueling 7 game Finals series... I'm going to go ahead and predict that his MVP seasons are also over. Kobe really wasn't much of a regular season MVP candidate this past year either so its not new; happens to most veteran champions. Bryant does have a far superior team which makes all the difference though when it comes to their twilight years.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Kobe try and break all the records he can before calling it quits although I don't see him finding a coach he respects as much as Phil Jackson (who basically has a one season window right now). How big of a difference this will make remains to be seen although Phil's as great as they come when it comes to managing talents and their personalities.
As is, Duncan's got the superior career as a no. 1 option and overall. Kobe never had the highs Duncan did especially in the Finals as a no. 1 option. Bryant does have more finals appearances and one more ring (two as the no. 1 option) however Duncan's never lost on the biggest stage and also never missed the playoffs. Duncan has never led as many poor regular seasons as Kobe has either. Duncan's career also includes a pretty impressive 50 win streak that Kobe has no answer for. Bryant's a far more popular player though but also had a truckload's worth of ty drama ranging from rape to Shaq. Don't have to deal with stupid bull when it comes to Duncan.
TD's wins as a no. 1 option (incredible active streak of 50+ win seasons, 3 Finals MVP's), consistent efficiency, truly great performances in the Finals as a no. 1 option (near quadruple double, a top 10 all time NBA finals performance from Hollinger, etc), seem to exceed Kobe's achievements. However Kobe's got the best team in the West for the near future (although it'll be interesting to see what they're like without Phil which should happen well before Kobe retires..and how Kobe and Bynum rebound after their surgeries and taking on the NBA season) so he'll likely have more opportunities to try and shine on the biggest stage.
Last edited by Cane; 06-20-2010 at 02:53 AM.
I just think it's such a bad point. Kobe was just as necessary for those first three les as Shaq was. There's no question that Shaq was the best player of those teams. But they don't win without Kobe either. People say, well exchange him with another great player and they still win. First, that's pure conjecture as well. And second, yeah, you'd have to get another really "great" wing player to replace Kobe. Does Vince Carter or Tracy McGrady guarantee those les too? Maybe. But that's far from guaranteed too. Win all three? I would lean towards saying no. Shaq went to the Finals with a what was considered a really great wing player in Penny and it didn't happen.
Kobe was still necessary for those les. And some people love to imply that he wasn't.
Does Duncan really only get credit for 3 les?
Was there such an uproar and outrage when he won the Finals MVP in 2005 over Manu? Some might have felt that Manu deserved it more, even some Spurs fans. But people weren't outraged that Duncan won it. Didn't make fun of his 37% shooting in game 7 or that he shot 42% from the field for that Finals... as a big man. Heck, one could argue Duncan was only the first option for 1999 and 2003. 2005 was more Manu and 2007 was Tony. But we don't hear people coming out the woodwork to discredit Tim for that.
I don't know. It's just a point I never really seem to understand why it's used and emphasized so much.
kobe 3 NBA All Star Game MVP vs. Duncan 1 NBA Allstar MVP
Kobe hands down.
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