1957 vs. 2010

[CosmicCowboy]

"Equal Opportunity"

Blacks and Whites with equivalent education and skills (I don't know how you gauge ambition) do not make the same amount of money. Blacks, on average, make less than equally situated White counterparts.

Do they have equal opportunity, in the sense that they may both apply for the same jobs? Yes. Do they have equal rewards for the same education and skills? No.



Those Blacks holding advanced degrees just need more ambition I guess.

Or the right advanced degree.

[LnGrrrR]

1957: Man beats wife, authorities say she probably deserved it
2010: Man beats wife, man goes to jail

[spursncowboys]

"Equal Opportunity"

Blacks and Whites with equivalent education and skills (I don't know how you gauge ambition) do not make the same amount of money. Blacks, on average, make less than equally situated White counterparts.

Do they have equal opportunity, in the sense that they may both apply for the same jobs? Yes. Do they have equal rewards for the same education and skills? No.



Those Blacks holding advanced degrees just need more ambition I guess.

If you get a true control-same location; same degree; same job sector- I wonder if the career race baiters would still be able to advocate this garbage?

[ChumpDumper]

1957: Man beats wife, authorities say she probably deserved it

As long as the issue was settled....

[Wild Cobra]

"Equal Opportunity"

Blacks and Whites with equivalent education and skills (I don't know how you gauge ambition) do not make the same amount of money. Blacks, on average, make less than equally situated White counterparts.

Do they have equal opportunity, in the sense that they may both apply for the same jobs? Yes. Do they have equal rewards for the same education and skills? No.

Very little of that is because of color. It's because of culture and character.

Those Blacks holding advanced degrees just need more ambition I guess.

Asians are harder working as a culture. I'll bet Hispanics that go on to college are also better performing than whites. Most come from families that lived hard times, and know the value of an education and hard work.

Too many blacks have boxed themselves into a unique culture. A self fulfilling prophecy that whites keep holding them down. This relieves them of all responsibility to better themselves, because with this at ude, it's always someone Else's fault.

Dr. Kings dream is alive and well for those who choose to have good character.

[Stringer_Bell]

Dr. Kings dream is alive and well for those who choose to have good character.

Nepotism is alive and well too, and in addition to a decent number of "good jobs" being about who you know and not what you know, character doesn't always overcome an employer's prejudices (whether it be where you got your degree from, where you worked last, etc...prejudice isn't always about race).

The system, and the open doors, aren't always open even though people say they are. Just saying, people can be s.

[LnGrrrR]

Blacks and whites with equivalent education, skills, and ambition have equal opportunity in our society.

You are perpetuating a myth.

Does a 23 year old college educated white and a 23 year old black high school dropout have the same opportunity? no, and they shouldn't.

Equal? Perhaps on merit, but you can't deny that whites certainly have increased wealth than blacks due to obvious factors, and wealth does play a large role in education opportunities.

[CosmicCowboy]

Equal? Perhaps on merit, but you can't deny that whites certainly have increased wealth than blacks due to obvious factors, and wealth does play a large role in education opportunities.

Do you dare state these obvious factors?

and wealth is not necessary for educational opportunities.

[Wild Cobra]

character doesn't always overcome an employer's prejudices (whether it be where you got your degree from, where you worked last, etc...prejudice isn't always about race).

I would say it never overcomes an employers prejudice. Just because some employers will be unfair, it doesn't mean you cannot find the ones who are fair. Besides, skin color isn't the only prejudice. Not all prejudices are racist. We whites also have to present ourselves with character to employers.

The system, and the open doors, aren't always open even though people say they are. Just saying, people can be s.

Maybe not certain doors, but there are so many doors. Ignore the doors closed and move to one that's open. We whites have some closed doors too. Maybe not as many, but we just do on to the next door.

[Wild Cobra]

Equal? Perhaps on merit, but you can't deny that whites certainly have increased wealth than blacks due to obvious factors, and wealth does play a large role in education opportunities.

Statistically, no denial. Is that a reason for a black man not to strive to rise above statistics?

[Mr. Peabody]

Asians are harder working as a culture. I'll bet Hispanics that go on to college are also better performing than whites. Most come from families that lived hard times, and know the value of an education and hard work.

Too many blacks have boxed themselves into a unique culture. A self fulfilling prophecy that whites keep holding them down. This relieves them of all responsibility to better themselves, because with this at ude, it's always someone Else's fault.

Did you even read what I posted before you started spouting off your suppositions and rationalizations for your apparent bigotry?

Among workers with advanced degrees, Asians ($88,408) and non-Hispanic whites ($83,785) had higher average earnings than Hispanics ($70,432) and blacks ($64,834).

[Wild Cobra]

Did you even read what I posted before you started spouting off your suppositions and rationalizations for your apparent bigotry?

Sorry, I missed part of it. My assumption is wrong in this case. So what?

How to you extrapolate bigotry from that anyway?

[FromWayDowntown]

I guess this is probably going to engender another diatribe from WC about how I've once again misconstrued his statement that he wouldn't trust a black surgeon. He never meant it to say that blacks shouldn't go to medical school. He only meant it to say that there is such a significant unlikelihood that a black man or woman could qualify on the merits for medical school that any black surgeon must necessary be presumed to be a product of affirmative action.

While whites must show their character, the absence of same in blacks will be presumed -- from copious socioeconomic study, of course.

[DMX7]

Or the right advanced degree.

What do you mean? From the right college or the right type of degree?

[DMX7]

I'm glad I'm not black. This is kind of depressing.

[Mr. Peabody]

If you get a true control-same location; same degree; same job sector- I wonder if the career race baiters would still be able to advocate this garbage?

Here's a good one to look at. This study breaks it down by degree and considers variables such as parent's education, professional work experience, etc.

http://www.econ.ucsb.edu/~weinberg/grads.pdf

The picture that emerges in this study is one in which racial gaps did not change between the 1980s and the 1990s for the typical worker in the 20-39 age range. During both the 1980-1990 and 1991-2001 periods, black men
in their 20’s and 30’s earned about 15 percent less than white men, while black women earned about 25 percent less than white men. Among black men, the observed gaps were smaller among those in their 20’s than among those in
their 30’s, but the relationship between age and earnings differentials was remarkably stable over the two decade period. Among black women, gaps tended to be large among both younger and older workers, although the
youngest workers in the most recent cohort fared somewhat better

A portion of the observed racial differentials can be explained by differences in characteristics including college major, professional work experience, and parents’ education. After controlling for these and other factors, black men in their 20’s and 30’s, on average, earn 8 percent less per hour and 9 percent less per week than white men, while black women earn 15 percent less per hour and 17 percent less per week. A closer look reveals that wage differentials vary by college major. For example, they are very small and not statistically significant for electrical engineering majors. However, college majors with small racial gaps are the exception rather than the norm.

Evidence from new surveys of recent college graduates find no unexplained racial pay differentials one or two years after college graduation in the 1990’s. This is inconsistent with previous findings of significant gaps among new college graduates in the 1980’s (Bound and Freeman 1992, Weinberger 1998), but similar to the situation observed in 1970 (Freeman 1976). One survey of 1994 graduates shows that new black college graduates are not at a disadvantage immediately after graduation. However, the same sample resurveyed only three years later shows that wage differentials had begun to emerge that could not be explained by college major, college grade point
average, the college or university attended or other observed factors. We speculate that enforcement of affirmative action or anti-discrimination policies is easiest and most effective during the recruitment of new college graduates, but that the idiosyncratic promotion policies of individual employers are less conducive to change.

In sum, there are very small, if any, racial differentials in earnings among comparable new graduates entering the labor market immediately after completing college. Yet racial differentials of significant size emerge over the next two decades of the college graduate’s working life. The pattern has been extraordinarily stable for black men in their 20’s and 30’s over the past two decades. For black women, the even larger earnings disadvantage has improved somewhat for younger cohorts, although it is too soon to tell whether this change is permanent. For both men and women, the 10 to 20 percent difference in earnings over the first twenty years after college graduation calls for further explanation.

[CosmicCowboy]

What do you mean? From the right college or the right type of degree?

I would say the right type of degree. My GUESS (not backed up by statistics just as you can't refute me with statistics) is that a large majority of minority advanced degrees are in education. They get a 4 year degree and start teaching and realize the system not only pays them to get advanced degrees but rewards them financially to get a masters. It's rational behavior.

At the same time a masters in education does not pay the same as a masters in engineering, science, etc.

Again, just a guess. Bottom line, a teacher with 10 years experience and a masters degree in the same school district is going to make the same money as other teachers with the same experience/degree no matter what race/ethnicity they are.

[Wild Cobra]

I guess this is probably going to engender another diatribe from WC about how I've once again misconstrued his statement that he wouldn't trust a black surgeon. He never meant it to say that blacks shouldn't go to medical school. He only meant it to say that there is such a significant unlikelihood that a black man or woman could qualify on the merits for medical school that any black surgeon must necessary be presumed to be a product of affirmative action.

While whites must show their character, the absence of same in blacks will be presumed -- from copious socioeconomic study, of course.

You refuse to see my real point about that example. Yes, you misconstrue it.

I'm only saying that affirmative action has caused valid suspect of qualifications. That as a whole, affirmative action has done more harm than bad.

[FromWayDowntown]

You refuse to see my real point about that example. Yes, you misconstrue it.

I'm only saying that affirmative action has caused valid suspect of qualifications. That as a whole, affirmative action has done more harm than bad.

And, consequently, YOU don't trust black surgeons -- no?

[Mr. Peabody]

I would say the right type of degree. My GUESS (not backed up by statistics just as you can't refute me with statistics) is that a large majority of minority advanced degrees are in education.

Even accounting for various types of majors and degrees, White still earn 8-9% more.

Read the study I posted.

[Wild Cobra]

And, consequently, YOU don't trust black surgeons -- no?

Correct.

however, it's not racism. It's the statistics I believe.

[CosmicCowboy]

Even accounting for various types of majors and degrees, White still earn 8-9% more.

Read the study I posted.

A University of California study? Is it OK if I'm a little dubious of their methodology/conclusions?

[ChumpDumper]

Correct.

however, it's not racism. It's the statistics I believe.

What statistics?

[Wild Cobra]

What statistics?

the statistics I believe

[ChumpDumper]

Which statistics do you believe?