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I think we spend more money per student than any country in the world and it doesn't appear to be paying dividends.
What's your point DarrinS? Are you denying that increased wealth leads to better education opportunities/more educated children or not?
I think we spend more money per student than any country in the world and it doesn't appear to be paying dividends.
Calculators were new and expensive when I was in school. I did have a slide rule though.
Computer?
What's that? They took up a couple 19" racks, and only some big businesses and the government had them.
I guess we should just stop using calculators then... Honestly, as long as kids understand the underlying principles behind the equations the calculator is performing, I don't see why kids shouldn't be using calculators, laptops, etc etc.
Sure, you can send your kids to a private school. I don't deny that.
But, what's unfair about that? If people want to spend THEIR OWN MONEY to separate their little Johnnie and Suzie from common public school riff raff (like me), then that is their right.
Let's go over this ONE MORE TIME.
We're not talking about funding for schools. We're talking about how children from wealthy families, on average, perform better/score better in education against children from middle-class and poor families.
Everyone in the same boat now? No misunderstanding? Ok then.
And? What's the point? Life is unfair.
*facepalm*
NO ONE IS SAYING THAT'S UNFAIR! Yeesh. If you had read through the thread, one of the points I brought up earlier is that minorities tend to have less wealth on average, which DOES have an impact on education, which then also affects their ability to increase wealth, etc etc. That's where this whole sidebar came from, which wouldn't even be here if CC had just accepted that whites tend to have more wealth on average which leads to better educational opportunities. (And don't give me the usual "a person has to have drive motivation etc etc because 1) duh and 2) that doesn't explain the wealth factor, unless you're stating rich parents are just better at raising their kids than middle/poor families)
Why do they score better? Is it the self esteem they grow up with, or the money?
Please don't try to isolate money. that has little bearing, except for private schools and college. Not for test scores.
Thank you for proving my point, and that minorities are fighting an uphill battle against majorities when it comes to creating wealth.
Aw c'mon. Getting a good education is not an insurmountable task no matter what socioeconomic group you come from. So you say it's relatively easier if your parents are rich? Big ing deal.
Really WC? So you're saying that rich children on average have better self-esteem than middle-class/poor folks?
Of course you can't COMPLETELY isolate money; that's impossible, and we both know that. However, controlling for factors as much as possible shows that money is a key factor. tell me, how would you control for your "self-esteem" theory?
If the self-esteem they grow up with comes from being part of a wealthy family, what difference does that make? THEY'RE STILL BENEFITING FROM BEING WEALTHY.
cc may have inadvertently indicated the missing common denominator.
Yes.
It is.
So long as they/you can afford to do so.
No one in this thread is demonizing the choice to fund a child's private education. It's a wise choice. But it's not a choice that is financially available to all parents. The access to a private education is based on socioeconomic factors. To deny that fact is negligent, but to allow that denial to create the belief that poorer parents are automatically less dedicated to their child's educational success is flat out dangerous. Despite the name calling that goes on here, I sincerely doubt that any of the people on the other side of this argument are overtly or intentionally racist in their daily lives. I just don't get that vibe. And yet many of their arguments have suggested, directly at times, that certain socioeconomic and/or racial groups are somehow naturally or culturally inclined to value something other than education. That's a HUGE generalization, reliant upon several HUGE assumptions.
That's not what I'm arguing; it's a strawman. All I said, thoughout the beginning, is that children from wealthy families score better. They do. Is it insurmountable? Obviously not. But surely, you'd prefer if the odds were on your side, right?
I mean, if I gave you a choice between rolling a 6 with a set of dice to earn 10 dollars, and rolling a 11 to earn 10 dollars, which choice would you pick?
There's only one solution to this problem: wealth redistribution
The point is that life has historically been, and still is, a of a lot less fair for certain portions of the population than for others.
And, before the accusation comes, I'm not just speaking about race.
If some of these other issues of agency and access were balanced out, the distribution of wealth would adjust itself over time. That's why so many people are heavily invested in making sure that doesn't happen.
If only we could choose our parents. That's the ticket.
There's no solution, other than the obvious one of providing means to allow upward social mobility.
There is a means.
Yes, but self esteem also comes from other factors. You can be poor and instill values in your children if you don't blame others for your position in life. Lead by example. Just because someone is financially poor doesn't mean their lives aren't rich.
What does it say when rich parents expect their children to achieve certain benchmarks and hold them to it? Do as many poor or middle class families expect their children to go to an expensive school? No, partially because they cannot afford to send them. Their expectations aren't as high. The entire experience of growing up plays a factor. Money does influence some of these factors, but the real factors are the way we raise our children. Parents who realize this can have great performing children and be poor.
I'm not arguing there are. There are many means, in fact. Affirmative action is one of those means. (Not arguing whether it's "successful" or not, just arguing that its a means of allowing minorities upward mobility.)
My whole point this whole thread has been that minorities have less wealth, and as a consequence, suffer educationally. All the "I knew this one guy who was poor and still went to Harvard!" stories won't change that fact. Is there anyone arguing that whites own more wealth than minorities, both in total and on average? Is there anyone arguing that more wealth equals better education, on average?
Hmmm. Are you saying this is something else government should provide? Above and beyond affirmative action?
You're completely dancing around that fact that even if/when poorer parents do have high expectations of their children and do instill high expectations within their children, expensive schools are still sometimes out of the question. That's too important a piece of this argument to just push aside.
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