This Says It All, The Absolute Truth

[pad300]

Only Lebron can be criticized for going to the best destination for winning les..

Actually, that's a really funny statement. If it was really all about les, the 3 amigos would have gone to Chicago instead.
Chicago could have found a dump deal for Deng, that would give them the cap space needed, (purely as an example, something like this:
http://forums.realgm.com/boards/view...t=15#p24038840 )
The result :

Wade, Bosh, Lebron, Rose, Noah, Gibson, James Johnson.

A roster with 6 NBA players (all those guys had a WP/48 > .1) rather than 4 (Wade, Bosh, Lebron, Miller). As well, they have a starting lineup, with both a good PG and a good C, as well as SG, SF, and PF....

That's a roster that almost certainly would win THIS year. As it stands, I think the Heat really need to find a good defensive C before I am willing to hand them the le. If I were them, I would have prioritized a C above the luxury of Miller....

[Warlord23]

That's the problem. The last two seasons take that argument away from James. After making it to the 2007 NBA Finals, he's had good enough supporting casts the last two seasons to have the best regular season records both years. Sure, it was mostly due to LeBron, but if he had enough help to have the best record in the league two straight seasons, he loses the excuse that he doesn't have enough help to win a le.

LeBron quit against Boston. He stopped attacking the basket. He settled for long, lazy jumpers. Stopped staying involved in offense. He still put up stats, but it was pretty clear he stopped trying to win in that series I believe from game 4 on. He scored. He still grabbed some rebounds and assists. But it was clear as day that he had quit on his team and was no longer trying to win. You keep asking where the evidence is. If you watched that series, you wouldn't need to ask for evidence.

For a minute I thought ducks had finally got a decent grasp of the English language. I mean, this post is grammatically correct with no spelling errors. Then I searched a bit.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=161

Nice copy-and-paste ducks

[z0sa]

That's the problem. The last two seasons take that argument away from James. After making it to the 2007 NBA Finals, he's had good enough supporting casts the last two seasons to have the best regular season records both years. Sure, it was mostly due to LeBron, but if he had enough help to have the best record in the league two straight seasons, he loses the excuse that he doesn't have enough help to win a le.

LeBron quit against Boston. He stopped attacking the basket. He settled for long, lazy jumpers. Stopped staying involved in offense. He still put up stats, but it was pretty clear he stopped trying to win in that series I believe from game 4 on. He scored. He still grabbed some rebounds and assists. But it was clear as day that he had quit on his team and was no longer trying to win. You keep asking where the evidence is. If you watched that series, you wouldn't need to ask for evidence.

what..the.. ?

[Warlord23]

what..the.. ?

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=161

At least he picked a good poster to plagiarize

[BUMP]

People are making way too much out of this.

LeBron just wants to win championships. Period. I'm sure he's thought this over a thousand times. He knows that if he goes down to Miami to play with Wade that it will diminish his legacy.

Has he ever said he plans on surpassing Jordan by doing so? No. Every player is different. This is just the route he has chosen. Be a team player on a team full of stars and maybe create the best team ever. There's nothing wrong with what he did. People are just so butthurt about it, it's ridiculous

[z0sa]

shoulda known

[z0sa]

There's nothing wrong with what he did. People are just so butthurt about it, it's ridiculous

pretty much. Bron should be getting props for this ( Cleveland). He cares about rings and being on top. And he's still getting paid. Nothing to legitimately call it tbh

[Mike-in-brazil]

He does not have the compe ive fire of Jordan, the bull-headed determination of Kobe Bryant, the quiet self-confidence of Tim Duncan, the willful defiance of Isiah or the winning-is-everything hunger of Magic Johnson.

Beautiful phucking beautiful!!!!

Dude is pippen on steriods!!

[hitmanyr2k]

It's not the amount of points you score or stats you put up that make you a role player. It's your position on the team, in the league. Even when TP was averaging more points than Tim Duncan everyone knew that it was Duncan's team. He was the unquestioned leader, the superstar who led it all.

It's the same here. Wade is the unquestioned leader. He's the one who led his team almost single handedly to a le when they were all but done. He's the one that stayed home, Lebron and Bosh went to ride HIS coattail.

I'm not saying Lebron isn't a great player or that he's making the wrong decision. All I'm saying is that this exposes what he truly is - a second banana. He's not the chosen one or the king, he's a second fiddle to a more dominant leader. He can't take the pressure that Jordan did and be the top dog. He had to run from it and go to Wade's home to follow Wade.

That's what I mean by role player. It isn't his stats, it's his status on the team. If he wins les now it will be as a complimentary player on Wade's team just like TP and Manu won les as complimentary players on Duncan's team.

The difference is neither TP or Manu are claiming to be the chosen ones or the greatest in the game and this "brand", and now Lebron shouldn't either.

These knee jerk reactions are ridiculous

Not ONE game has been played yet and people act like they know how is gonna go down or how these guys are going to play with each other or what their roles are gonna be. Follow Wade? Be Wade's sidekick? You act like Wade is coming off an NBA le or something. That was 4 years ago and Wade hasn't done since. When is the last time the Heat even got past the first round?

You or no one else on this forum has a crystal ball. You don't really know . You're as bad as Wilbon, Legler, Jon Barry and the rest of those ESPN idiots. You're all just spoutin dumb and sounding like idiots in the process.

[Whisky Dog]

People are making way too much out of this.

LeBron just wants to win championships. Period. I'm sure he's thought this over a thousand times. He knows that if he goes down to Miami to play with Wade that it will diminish his legacy.

Has he ever said he plans on surpassing Jordan by doing so? No. Every player is different. This is just the route he has chosen. Be a team player on a team full of stars and maybe create the best team ever. There's nothing wrong with what he did. People are just so butthurt about it, it's ridiculous

A guy who calls himself a king and the chosen one doesn't just decide that he's ok playing second fiddle. IMO he was talked into this and had no idea it would completely ruin his "brand".

Here's the deal... He's going to be a second fiddle in Miami, so he should immediately stop calling himself the King and chosen one. Nike should immediately stop with that line of marketing, because we all now know he isn't the King. A king is first and foremost the leader. He's a follower.

[Giuseppe]

You're all just spoutin dumb and sounding like idiots in the process.

The Spurs fellows started it last night. Especially Harlem and that idiot Mid.

- "God, I hate that guy."

- "Brain" - "Escape from New York"

[Whisky Dog]

These knee jerk reactions are ridiculous

Not ONE game has been played yet and people act like they know how is gonna go down or how these guys are going to play with each other or what their roles are gonna be. Follow Wade? Be Wade's sidekick? You act like Wade is coming off an NBA le or something. That was 4 years ago and Wade hasn't done since. When is the last time the Heat even got past the first round?

You or no one else on this forum has a crystal ball. You don't really know . You're as bad as Wilbon, Legler, Jon Barry and the rest of those ESPN idiots. You're all just spoutin dumb and sounding like idiots in the process.

You don't get it. No game has to be played, the situation dictated it. Did Wade leave to follow James to Cleveland? No. James followed. He's the follower and Miami is Wade's team. It can never be Lebron's team as long as Wade is there. No matter who does what or puts up how many points it will always be known that Lebron left his franchise in the most publicly insulting way possible to be a second banana in Miami. It's just the way it is.

[z0sa]

Here's the deal... He's going to be a second fiddle in Miami,

How are you so sure of this? Because Wade won a le 4 years ago? Because it's Wade's "town"?

None of that means jack. This is a completely new team, being built from the ground up around 3 legitimate superstars.

All of them have talked. All of them are no doubt preaching a team first, le-first mentality to eachother. LeBron doesn't regret his decision.

[Brazil]

For a minute I thought ducks had finally got a decent grasp of the English language. I mean, this post is grammatically correct with no spelling errors. Then I searched a bit.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=161

Nice copy-and-paste ducks

wtf ducks ?

[Whisky Dog]

How are you so sure of this? Because Wade won a le 4 years ago? Because it's Wade's "town"?

None of that means jack. This is a completely new team, being built from the ground up around 3 legitimate superstars.

All of them have talked. All of them are no doubt preaching a team first, le-first mentality to eachother. LeBron doesn't regret his decision.

So the Spurs could sign Dwight Howard to play along TD and the Spurs would become Howard's team? Nope. It just doesn't happen like that.


What's so hard to understand? A guy who proclaims himself to be the king and the chosen one and is marketed as such for 7+ years all of a sudden says I can't handle the pressure of having to score 30 a night and shoot a high percentage. So now he's going to follow a superstar to play on his team to take the pressure off of him. You don't see how that is absolutely fraudulent?

[z0sa]

So the Spurs could sign Dwight Howard to play along TD and the Spurs would become Howard's team? Nope. It just doesn't happen like that.

If the Spurs signed DHo, I guarantee you it would be "his" team. Timmy would be all for it, too; remember when DRob passed the torch?

Honestly, that's a bad analogy to prove your point. Got another hypothetical?

What's so hard to understand? A guy who proclaims himself to be the king and the chosen one and is marketed as such for 7+ years all of a sudden says I can't handle the pressure of having to score 30 a night

He didn't anything like that. He said he wants to win les and contend for them for a long time. It doesn't have anything to do with being or not being the man. It has everything to do with winning his last game every season while still getting paid.

and shoot a high percentage. So now he's going to follow a superstar to play on his team to take the pressure off of him. You don't see how that is absolutely fraudulent?

"Follow"? How is he following anyone? He went to the team with the most guaranteed talent. He just formed a triad of superstars. That simple. This "following" stuff is just a wrong interpretation of the events.

[hitmanyr2k]

You don't get it. No game has to be played, the situation dictated it. Did Wade leave to follow James to Cleveland? No. James followed. He's the follower and Miami is Wade's team. It can never be Lebron's team as long as Wade is there. No matter who does what or puts up how many points it will always be known that Lebron left his franchise in the most publicly insulting way possible to be a second banana in Miami. It's just the way it is.

I don't think you get it. Who was gonna follow Lebron to Cleveland? The writing is on the wall. No top free agents want to be in Cleveland lol. Cleveland can't compete with the likes of Chicago, NY, and Miami. Who gives a if Miami is deemed as "Wade's team"? The Heat haven't seen the 2nd round of the playoffs since 2006 and have been drowning in mediocrity. Idiots act like Wade won a le last year and Lebron is jumping on for a free ride. It's dumbass logic.

[TDMVPDPOY]

espn give the clown a 1hr special, to build up his ego, then they ask him stupid questions trolling him....fail right there....

[z0sa]

I don't think you get it. Who was gonna follow Lebron to Cleveland? The writing is on the wall. No top free agents want to be in Cleveland lol. Cleveland can't compete with the likes of Chicago, NY, and Miami. Who gives a if Miami is deemed as "Wade's team"? The Heat haven't seen the 2nd round of the playoffs since 2006 and have been drowning in mediocrity. Idiots act like Wade won a le last year and Lebron is jumping on for a free ride. It's dumbass logic.

Very well said.

If Wade and Bosh would have joined LeBron in Cleveland, it wouldn't have been LeBron's team, either. 3 legit superstars joining forces to win a le means that they're putting their egos aside. At least, that's how it appears, and all the evidence points to that. Any other arguments are rooted in something other than the facts at this point.

[Whisky Dog]

If the Spurs signed DHo, I guarantee you it would be "his" team. Timmy would be all for it, too; remember when DRob passed the torch?

Honestly, that's a bad analogy to prove your point. Got another hypothetical?




He didn't anything like that. He said he wants to win les and contend for them for a long time. It doesn't have anything to do with being or not being the man. It has everything to do with winning his last game every season while still getting paid.



"Follow"? How is he following anyone? He went to the team with the most guaranteed talent. He just formed a triad of superstars. That simple. This "following" stuff is just a wrong interpretation of the events.

1) Not if Timmy and Dwight were the same generation and TD won a le but Dwight didn't so he came to ride the coattail. Even now it wouldn't be Dwight's team as long as TD is around. David never won a le without TD putting up 30 and 15 on the Knicks in the finals.

2) He said the benefit of going to Miami is that he doesn't have to feel the pressure to score 30 a night and shoot a good percentage. He said that. Read the article I posted to start, it has a quote about that.

3) Wade has played and won a le in Miami. Lebron literally is following Wade to Miami. He's literally and figuratively following. How you can't see that is beyond me. Maybe you need to play some more modern warfare 2 and contemplate this some more so you can actually understand what is going on.

You didn't answer the question. How is a man who is proclaimed as the King for 7 years quitting on his team to go to a superstar's team and get the pressure of being the "king" off him not fraudluent?

Here's the issue. He's a product of the 21st century American hype machine. He was proclaimed a leader, a king, before he had the chance to show he isn't a leader at all.

[Whisky Dog]

Very well said.

If Wade and Bosh would have joined LeBron in Cleveland, it wouldn't have been LeBron's team, either. 3 legit superstars joining forces to win a le means that they're putting their egos aside. At least, that's how it appears, and all the evidence points to that. Any other arguments are rooted in something other than the facts at this point.

Ahh, to be so naive to think that's how it works. How cute.

[z0sa]

Ahh, to be so naive to think that's how it works. How cute.

no reason to be butthurt because I think your opinion is totally baseless.

[monosylab1k]

For a minute I thought ducks had finally got a decent grasp of the English language. I mean, this post is grammatically correct with no spelling errors. Then I searched a bit.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=161

Nice copy-and-paste ducks

[z0sa]

1) Not if Timmy and Dwight were the same generation and TD won a le but Dwight didn't so he came to ride the coattail. Even now it wouldn't be Dwight's team as long as TD is around. David never won a le without TD putting up 30 and 15 on the Knicks in the finals.

Hypothetical.

2) He said the benefit of going to Miami is that he doesn't have to feel the pressure to score 30 a night and shoot a good percentage. He said that. Read the article I posted to start, it has a quote about that.

So he wants to win les. Let's crucify him to the tree of woe for that one.

3) Wade has played and won a le in Miami. Lebron literally is following Wade to Miami.

Kinda hard to follow someone who never moved.

He's literally and figuratively following. How you can't see that is beyond me. Maybe you need to play some more modern warfare 2 and contemplate this some more so you can actually understand what is going on.

You didn't answer the question. How is a man who is proclaimed as the King for 7 years quitting on his team to go to a superstar's team and get the pressure of being the "king" off him not fraudluent?

he's only quitting in your opinion. It's a baseless opinion. Cleveland sucks, and no one cares about them, and they have no future. That's not quitting, that's doing what any other NBA player would do in the same cir stance.

Here's the issue. He's a product of the 21st century American hype machine. He was proclaimed a leader, a king, before he had the chance to show he isn't a leader at all.

In your baseless opinion. The reality is, he led that team further than they'd ever been, with a ty supporting cast. Reality is, Cleveland should be thankful they got the King for 7 years and he was able to drag them as far as he did.

[Roddy Beaubois]

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